Mid 50's to mid 60's?


Aerojet

Active Member
If you are modeling the late 50's into the 60's. This was a turbulent times for railroads. Planes and cars had pretty much taken over the passenger business, and trucks were working their way into the freight hauling. Especially from smaller towns on branch lines. Which is why the railroad abandoned them in droves.

Yet lines like the Wisconsin Central and later the Wisconsin Southern, now WAMX, took on those lines and made them really pay. It shows that in this part of the world, namely branch lines are not dead. If you service them properly.

Take auto racks. At first cars were shipped in box cars with the Evans lift system to get four to six cars in each box car. Later on Evans made up the first auto loader hauling 4 cars in an open rack. this was followed by 6 cars, then the open 18 car racks. These were used until the 70's when the fully enclosed auto racks were put into service to protect the cars from damage in shipment. Why don't more people model those units like I am?

Passenger cars were a big deal post world war 2 and the investment the railroads made was huge. As I stated at the top, planes, trucks and cars took most of the biz and they were glad when in 1970 Amtrak came along and the sold or gave Amtrak tons of passenger cars to get them off their property. Many more were just too old and were scrapped as is where is. Branch lines out side of commuter lines were dropped by the scores. But if there was a way to make this pay?

Hence my "little train" of passenger cars. If WC and WSOR / WAMX can make freight pay, why not passenger? All you need to do is shrink the passenger train to match the revenue, and offer first class service in a smaller package. The tracks are pretty much still there, all be it light rail, almost trolley car weight, so a little train like mine, pulled by say a 1500 type switcher would be able to work those tracks without any problems. The small size will let them go around any curve, which would make a trolley car cry!

More cars are coming soon. I will post those when I get them completed. No kit required, just build them. I do have a spare Piker in house which was never built. I am using those parts for reference sizing. Someplace in all my old Walthers catalogs there is a photo of a guy's train -- made up of a half dozen Pikers and an Oscar all done in Pennsy Tuscan Red -- and pulled by a steamer. Just for interesting thing to look at - and - something else to build.

My train is going to be made up from the many rosters of cars which are listed in several of the Train Shed Cyclopedias and other reference books I have around here.

The Aerojet
 
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Mark:

The passenger business isn't profitable on my Chicago, Milwaukee & Northern so you'll find a Doodle Bug providing limited transportant service for the workers. Soon a Budd Diesel Rail Car will be seen running on the layout.

Greg
 
Passenger cars were a big deal post world war 2 and the investment the railroads made was huge. As I stated at the top, planes, trucks and cars took most of the biz and they were glad when in 1970 Amtrak came along and the sold or gave Amtrak tons of passenger cars to get them off their property. .... But if there was a way to make this pay?

Hence my "little train" of passenger cars. If WC and WSOR / WAMX can make freight pay, why not passenger? All you need to do is shrink the passenger train to match the revenue, and offer first class service in a smaller package. The tracks are pretty much still there, all be it light rail, almost trolley car weight, so a little train like mine, pulled by say a 1500 type switcher would be able to work those tracks without any problems. The small size will let them go around any curve, which would make a trolley car cry!
The real railroads had been trying this sort of thing since the 1930s when automobiles started taking away the revenue. Doodle Bugs, Galloping Geese, RDC/MDCs, and mixed trains pulled by switcher type locomotives clear into the 1960s. It didn't help. The real thing that killed the long run passenger trains wasn't passengers, it was the United States Post Office switching its business to trucks and planes.
 
The Zephyrs are still running strong prior to 1960 on my Grashhook, Galesburg & Western Division of the C.B. & Q. Four-car articulated #9900, a portion of the Twin City Zephyr, The Denver Zephyr with an E5A/B pulling six Budd-built stainless passenger cars, including Vista-Domes. A kitbashed #9908 pulls a high-level commuter car. Also, a branchline four-car heavyweight pullet by a Class B-1a Mountain (kitbashed from Mantua Mikado with the front end from a Mantua Pacific). Why such "short" passenger trains? How many cars can you get on a 14 x 14 folded dogbone layout? ;)
 
Well I can see outside of the moderators not many comments on my posts lately. Why?
I generally don't judge the quality of a post by the number of replies, but more by the number of views. Some of your posts like "First Look", "Full House" and that car shop one had lots of views. Sorry, but Oscar and Piker just don't interest me. That "No Kit" one, being another whimsical post just didn't stir up enough interest for many, although I did keep up with it. Not too many modelers on this forum go to that extreme to get a unique rail car. While I don't start a lot of topics, I realized that the post count doesn't really reflect interest as much as the view count.
Regarding the passenger train discussion, I respectfully disagree. While clearly not a majority on this forum, there are many of our fellow members that run passenger trains. Several of the Coffee Shop regulars, regularly post pictures over there, and several others have mentioned it in posts elsewhere. I do not run passenger trains because my theme is loosely based on ATSF from 1978-1995 and my layout is mainly a very large switching layout.
 
Ya well, that went no place -- LOOK I realize what happened, in fact I have several books which talk to the decline of passenger service and what went wrong ... having said that - I am having fun making it work on MY PIKE.

The latest car -- now running. You last saw this in "NO KIT" -- as it stood in the car shop ready to be built after all the parts were done. Like the strange consist?

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All the new cars will be done in the C & NW paint scheme, but no lettering due to the cars are too short to get it all on one letter board. Like the green windows like the prototype?

Right now there are two more in the shop in various stages of being built.

The AJ
 
Ya well, that went no place -- LOOK I realize what happened, in fact I have several books which talk to the decline of passenger service and what went wrong ... having said that - I am having fun making it work on MY PIKE.
Ah, sorry, I missed the point. My brain was not in freelance mode. While I do have models of trains like the Santa Fe #67/68 Mixed Train Daily Wichita to Pratt Kansas ( GP7 and combine), finding Pike Sized passenger trains is not high on my priority list since I have access to the museum layout to run my trains.
 
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Very nice Iron Horseman! Love to see it.

This whole project was the outcome of the question -- "What to do this year?" -- Over the summer I had been reading and rereading books on the decline of passenger service, and watching a lot of Pentax videos. It got me to thinking -- IS there some way the could have been saved? Perhaps a different approach? Smaller equipment? Lighter equipment which could run on under maintained track? There had to be a way to save some sort of passenger trains - if they could do it in other parts of the world, why not us?

Looking around my own pike, I noticed my own biz cars running from time to time, either at the end of a train as an inspection trip, or taking potential clients out on our rails to show them prospective placed to build new industries and how we could serve their needs better than say trucks.

So just for fun I came up with this idea of 1/4 sized and 1/2 sized cars to match the current passenger demands.

Who knows? It might have taken hold even if it was the novelty of riding on the sub sized cars....

Just a thought experiment which I am making into some kind of reality.

Sorry if I offend some, but I am having fun with the project.

JUST one note, the diner is going to be a 1/2 sized car due to the need for more sit sit down to eat. Watch for it late this month or early next month.

The Aerojet
 
JUST one note, the diner is going to be a 1/2 sized car due to the need for more sit sit down to eat. Watch for it late this month or early next month.
Why not have the eating space along a counter - sort of like a soda fountain arrangement used to be? I remember going to the drug store and watching the short order cook make up the orders right across the counter from me.
 
Why not have the eating space along a counter - sort of like a soda fountain arrangement used to be? I remember going to the drug store and watching the short order cook make up the orders right across the counter from me.
Really too bad that part of Americana disappeared!
 
In many of my Cyclopedias there is shots of the "all day lunch" counters and a few which look like the old soda fountains. One of my cars which is a CN car has that in it.
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The kitchen is in the middle, with a serving counter for the group to the right, and a full diner for the group to the left. They call it a Club / Lunch / Diner - I guess it is unique.

This is one way - there is also the full counter with stools, or just a corner kitchen as it was serving as a lunch counter with tables, booths, etc out front.

Not sure which way I am going to go at this point.. Perhaps one like the lunch / diner counter above ...

The Aerojet
 
Thinking it over, I decided that since many of the mid train diners were about the size of a quarter car anyway, decided to go that route. Just for you to know, those diners are part of either an observation, club, or tavern car. So the third car is in paint right now, and will assemble it over the weekend.

So Charlie the Coach, and the Express car are done. So the first two in the consist. The diner is next in line, and as I said above in paint. Laid out and most of the interior parts are painted as well.

SO NOW -- it is time to do the "sleeper" - I know why a sleeper on a day train anyway? For private compartments. Some people want privacy when traveling, and feel better about it in their own space. The problem was building it into a quarter car. You end up with two, maybe three windows per side. Now looking in the car books, the compartments need the wide windows. So a two or three compartment cars would seem cute, but a waste. So we need to get a bigger car built for this service. /// ALSO if we ever decide to make this into an overnight train there will probably be the need for another sleeper.

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Something along this line of size. This is not going to ride on a 6 wheel truck alone. That would be awkward and unwieldy. So a pair of caboose electrical pickup trucks are going under this one. The line and the "1" show where a half car or quarter size would lay. This is a half car. I cut an 80 foot diner in half, exactly, and this is the result.

Also planned is a crew compartment of 3 bunks stacked in the rear right corner. Note the blank side across from the bath window. So this will end up being a 5 compartment Pullman type unit, with a pair of Pullman berths in each one with a comfy chair in each. Perhaps a folding wash basin would be nice

With this car I am going with the European design on compartments on a train with a rest room on the end. Not in each and every compartment. This is again another thing which is not American Railroad Standard..

Plan on working on this over the next two weeks, as this is going to take me longer than the others to build as I really am busy these days with work projects.....

Just moving along with the "Centipede" .

The Aerojet.
 
Quite an interesting post. I grew up in the 50's and 60's and we rode passenger trains quite a lot from Montana to visit family in northern Indiana. We would take either the Milwaukee Road Olympian or the Northern Pacific North Coast Limited. It would depend on the schedule and available space on the train. The Milwaukee Road could take us all the way to Cheicago where we would take the South Shore line into Indiana. The Northern Pacific would change power to the CB&Q to take the train to Chicago. Really liked the loks of the CB&Q E units. I really enjoyed those rail trips.

In the 50's the roads weren't what they are now. In the western states where we lived, most major highways were still two lane roads going from town to town with a lot lower speed limits than the present time. My dad made ONE trip to Indiana in our'41 Oldsmobile alone and he said it was a nightmare. Took almost three days. Never again. We always took the train.

I model the area where we live in Montana which is a rather rural area. I really enjoy passenger trains, but long trains wouldn't have run. I run an RDC with a club car in tow some times if more room for passengers are needed depending on the time of day. I also have a doodlebug. I'll sometimes put a combine behind the locomotive on a through freight for passenger service also. I model the late summer of 1957.

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In my freelance world, I also have a tourist train that I will use to take passengers south to Yellowstone Park. I'll use an F unit with a couple of coaches or dome cars. This is the only way I can justify running more modern equipment.

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This is the best I can do for passenger service in the area I am modeling in the thme period of 1957.
 
SO NOW -- it is time to do the "sleeper". The problem was building it into a quarter car. You end up with two, maybe three windows per side. Now looking in the car books, the compartments need the wide windows. So a two or three compartment cars would seem cute, but a waste.
Well.... well... technically aren't all these 1/4 size cars a waste? As soon as one starts considering practicality they all go out the window.

I think I would (without measuring just guessing) make a 1/4 size car in to either: 4 sections, 4 duplex singles, 2 compartments, 2 bedrooms (maybe that would fit), a single drawing room & 1 compartment, or a single double bedroom.
 
Hey guy, this is just for fun. Not practical. Having said that -- the idea was to build cars which go over almost any track out there from Class 1 heavy rail to trolley tracks, and at any radius. Even if the track was merging with the ballast, these cars should be light enough to go over it in some way, and being small and light they should "track" pretty well. I am not anticipating truck hunting at this time.

When thinking about car staffing, read that train crew, I get a bit hazy when it comes to passenger cars.

We can start with you need a Conductor. First one needs a train conductor and a passenger conductor. This is a duplicate job and on this pike, we only need one. If there is something which needs attention the conductor can take care of it. This should be a main line, or at least a side track, feeder with no switches to throw, and if needed, could be power switches thrown from the Dispatcher's position.

Next is the Engineer. Somebody has to run the train.

Now starts the hard part - the diner. Here there are a bunch of people working. ON this train there will be only the Chef, or Cook and a Steward. Nobody else. For lunch that would do, if you need a head of the diner, the conductor just got another job.

The sleeper needs or should have a Porter. Somebody to take care of making up beds, and getting them down, and seeing to the needs of the passengers. SO if we had a 1/4 sized sleeper, there would not be enough work to justify the position, or worse a pair of them, the person would be very busy between two cars, so make the sleeper bigger and we eliminate this problem -- also -- with the smaller, 1/4 sized sleeper, there would not be enough revenue to justify the car. The Coach has 20 seats, and we can seat 16 in the diner. The large Sleeper would only have maybe 20 in it,, or 6 or so in the smaller. To keep up the revenue base for each car - we need at least 12 people in each to justify the running of the car. Hence the larger Sleeper.

Following that is the Club / Lounge / Observation car. this would need a bartender of some sort to dispense the drinks and take care of the revenue coming in from the sales of drinks. The conductor can take car of skimming the till from time to time, and depositing the cash in a safe buried someplace on board. The people can bus their own tables if needed, or the bar tender can do it. This car will seat 12 to 16 people if we use all the seats, and jam them tightly together.

So a crew of 6 for a train load of 32 to 48 people, seated someplace in the train, including the rear observation car. For a branch line operation this would give main line service at a minimal cost, and provide first class service to those who would ordinarily only get an old day coach or two for transport. This should attract some customers. At least they won't be crammed into a smelly old passenger car which has only been lightly maintained, perhaps cold, perhaps damp - and - no services. Lunch? Perhaps not needed, but we would see. A Tavern car? Don't know - could tack it on the end, or use the all day lunch car as the end car. Ditto if we don't get much call for private compartments.

The Diner has "Observation" type windows on one end - so it could be the last car on a local crawl. OR NOT. ... The passenger loads are from the maximum loading capacity of the train cars as from the Pullman books.

This gives the road maximum flexibility to match what the clients want, and nothing more.

Just some railroad passenger traffic planning, from the Pullman books.
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AND now you have two of them finished and running on the pike behind a loco.

The Aerojet

For me, this is a mind game of epic proportions. Running my own railroad thru hard times, and finding ways to cope with declining revenues and trying to find new ways to attract customers from other sources of transportation. This is not just an adult toy, it is a way to expand one's mind to solve old problems in new ways.
 
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Well this has gone on long enough. This will be the last post on this one. Next post will be a fresh start ... Okay??

Dinner in the Diner! Well tis done. No I did not use a piker or any other car kit, this was done like all the rest from car sides cut and all that to suit.
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Just what it looks like. Not the expert type of job, but what the hey! It is okay for my usage. Seats 16. Next are couplers and wiring the thing and then it rolls as the third car in the set.

Thanks to all for your comebacks and comments this past year, and we will continue this next year.

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all on Model Railroad Forums!

The Aerojet and all at the
Royal Point and Western
 



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