Local Hobby Shop Versus Internet


Heck, one store has a sign prohibiting unaccompanied minors. If that's not suicidal management, I'm not sure what would qualify. It's the children of today that have to turn into the big spenders of tomorrow, as we grow old and pass on. How else do these retailers expect to continue?

I agree that is a suicidal position to take, but still to some degree it is understandable.

Way too many parents these days do not teach their kids how to act in public, to respect others property, and about the consequences of not acting properly. I have been in many stores where kids are running wild, taking stuff off the shelves, spraying paint cans etc.

We have all seen it, and there is not much we can do about it because it is up to the parents to teach the children, and they are not!

<rant off>
 
LHS and Kids

I too have seen this behavior, but in every single instance, the brats were accompanied by their parents (or some adult). Kids whom I have seen in shops who are on their own - where they are allowed in the first place - have always been well behaved. Probably the difference between being dragged to the shop by the parent or being their on their own with a purpose.

I think it's the old "show your ass when Mommy and Daddy is around" behavior because they know they can get away with it. On their own, without their 'protector' and therefore their 'reinforcer' of this bad behavior, kids tend to be much better behaved.

My nephews are a perfect example: when they're with me and I take them to the big LHS in Manchester, CT - they're freakin' angels. If my brother (their father) or mother, is along - fuggetaboutit! (More so when she's around than him. mind you.)

Nevertheless, kids are the future, and regardless of their actual or perceived behavior, one can't lock them out of this hobby during their formative years. We'll lose them altogether to video, audio, and digital pursuits. And this hobby might wither and die.
 
When I lived in Ventura, it was Ventura Toys. They welcomed little kids who rode their Stringray bicycles across town to spend their allowances. When we moved to Anaheim, it was Brookhurst Hobbies. I would go into the shop every Saturday at 10:00 AM sharp to spend my $2.00 allowance. I was into ships and armor at the time, and some of those Renwal kits cost more than my budget.
David:
Did you ever remove my cobwebs with this, bringing back 1950's memory of my similar childhood adventures to the hobby shop. The place was Owensboro, Kentucky and I was a youngster still in elementary school. Saturday mornings and summertime, I would walk to the not-so-close hobby shop to see what was new in the line of plastic airplane and ship kits. I wouldn't be wearing anything except shorts, my big toes were mangled from stumping them on the concrete sidewalks, and always determined not to allow anything change my destination.

I was always greeted as an adult and with friendly smiling faces. The folks were always helpful, as if my business was just as important as the "big people". After awhile and with helpful advice, I would purchase a favorite kit with my meager allowance and added grass cutting money. On my way back home, I would have a feeling of accomplishment and looking forward to going back for that other "special pick" that I didn't quite have enough money for.

Perhaps these memories are my nemesis, creating an expectant behavior and standard that I have set for the hobby shops of today and are not to be found. Unfortunately, too many take an attitude of, "...if he doesn't buy it, someone else will."....and they are probably correct.
 
Perhaps these memories are my nemesis, creating an expectant behavior and standard that I have set for the hobby shops of today and are not to be found. Unfortunately, too many take an attitude of, "...if he doesn't buy it, someone else will."....and they are probably correct.

Too often it's that attitude that one finds in nearly all brick & mortar stores nowadays. Maybe it's just population growth; too many people, not enough time. Maybe we're just getting old and are no longer 'with it!'

On the other hand, I remember that back in 'those days' stores stayed in business for years if not decades. The primary goal seemed to be customer service and satisfaction. The decline of these values started well before the internet.

Yet, living in Germany for 20 years (1978 - 1998), the small LHS still thrive. My two shops in Duesseldorf, not 1/2 kilometer apart, always remembered my name and greeted me warmly. They always had something new that had just come in that they knew (nearly 99% of the time) I would be interested in. I always bought (something my late wife new came with the territory when she married me: "Well, at least he comes HOME with his new trains every night!") and they always showed their appreciation. I missed an issue of MIBA: they gave it to me gratis. Misplaced my Marklin catalog: "Here, take it!"

At MEC Schuler in Stuttgart, once my monthly pile at the counter grew over our heads, and as they were ringing it up, other desirable items would magically appear on top. "No, I didn't come here for that today," I would protest. "Take it, it's no charge," would be the reply. (And we're talking items that costs more than a few Deutsche Marks.)

One of these shops is now gone; the owner retired after 55 years and had no children to take over. The other still thrives, and there is a relatively new shop (<10 years old) in the suburbs doing quite well.

I do business online with several shops in Germany to this day, and they always remember me and their emails are warm, friendly, and cordial. One shop, Modelleisenbahn-Lippe, ships my orders to me via DHL Air at the inter-European rate - 9.95 Euros, even though for my big orders (40 - 60 lbs, the actual cost is ten times that!). To find a shop like that here in the US is next to impossible, although Patrick at 3000Toys (very nice selection of 1/87th die-cast - make great freight car loads) comes very close.

However, as with you, I'm not going to give up my values or my feelings of nostalgia no matter how old I get. I look at the sheer number of small business bankruptcies each year and figure - especially now that credit is tight - that someday these business types will learn and get back to basics. They might make a quick buck, but they'll never go the distance, and starting over again is getting way too hard.

David
 
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Interesting turn this thread has taken. Our LHS now has their flex track and roadbed in the back because they were damaged too often by kids. I don't blame the LHS for having to take any steps necessary to protect themselves in this respect.
So true about kids being worse around their parents. As an elementary teacher, I was shocked (at first) how kids would behave at open house night compared to when they were in class during the day. They quickly learned (as did the parents) that I wouldn't put up with unacceptable behavior then anymore than I would during the school day. The result was often some embarrassed kids and some VERY embarrassed parents. It also explained a lot about why particular kids were a pain in the butt and others weren't. Often, once you met the parents, you were surprised that the kids weren't more of a behavior problem than they were.

Dan
 
Heck, one store has a sign prohibiting unaccompanied minors. If that's not suicidal management, I'm not sure what would qualify...
David

I have to disagree, at least for this shop.

Our LHS has that sign as well, but given the location of the store, on a busy 4-lane highway, no traffic lights, schools or residences really near, that is not a real problem for them, and probably won't ever be. The few kids that do come in alone gets treated with respect as any other customer is.

The owner also sells lots of Brio, Thomas etc, which are located near the door and low to the floor so the smaller kids can see and touch them. The sign the owner, Dave, says is really for the parents to see what lights up their child's eyes when the child "drags" their parents into the shop, while the parents are coming to shop at others stores in this strip mall.

I can tell you from watching the kids, it works!
 
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LHS - No Kids Welcome!

Hello Carey!

If I may speak for Rex as well as myself, thinking that this idea of not allowing kids in the store unless accompanied by an adult does not serve the LHS well in the long term, probably comes from our own childhood experiences (see above as we wax enthusiastic).

Our interest in this hobby, which has burned bright for over 45 years (at least in my case) came about only because we could walk into our LHS - usually after walking or riding a bicycle many miles (Yes, and we walked miles and miles to school; in driving rain and freezing snow - Yes, heard that before...) - and be welcomed as a customer whose money, as meager as it was, was welcomed like any adult's.

Those LHS were, at least to my mind, grooming their future customers. That no longer happens; at least I don't see it.

And that simple fact, to my mind, spells doom for the LHS. The online retailers cannot do this, and frankly don't care, as they have a customer base that has very few boundaries. The LHS was, and is for the most part (unless they have an online facility) dependent upon the neighborhood.

Of course, one can argue that we don't really have neighborhoods any longer. One can jump in the car and go for miles to get what one wants. Actually, I think that this is the exception that proves the rule. If the LHS fails to groom it's future customer base, then it may find that that customer base has indeed fled to greener pastures. They got in the car and went!

I know that when I was a kid in the US, and even as an adult in Germany, when and where the LHS was king; I identified with my LHS. At school and at clubs, we all touted our LHS as being the best. Sometimes, especially in Germany, it got as personal as the football team we cheered for.

So when I see a "No Unaccompanied Children" sign, I see an LHS that is trying to slit it's own throat. And based on the ever shrinking number of LHS; succeeding only too well.

David
 
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Perhaps, if we could go back to the hobby experiences of our childhoods, we would look around those LHSs of the fifties and sixties and see many more kids than adults in those shops. I'm wondering if adults (thats us) actively involved in these particular hobbies (trains, models, RC) is a "relatively" modern (since the 70's on) concept. Then again, perhaps not (I've heard Hermann Goering was a "big" model train enthusiast).
Dan
 
Adults in the Hobby

Hi Dan!

No, I recall that most of the people in those hobby shops when I was little were a heck of a lot bigger and older then me. In fact, many of my contemporaries were NOT interested in models or trains. When I lived in Ventura, none of my three best friends (guess we'd call them BFF nowadays) were interested in models or trains. Couldn't get them interested at all. When I moved to Anaheim, only one other kid in the 4th grade class that had about 25 boys in it built models.

Looking back on it, I guess that I found few kindred spirits growing up; model building is a rather solitary hobby.

As an adult, I find no more fellow modelers in a given group; at work, in the neighborhood, what have you; than I did as a child. However, as adults, we're inherently better equipped to organize in groups and clubs, attend events, and come into contact with fellow modelers.

I believe that this somewhat narrows our perception as to what out childhood associations with model railroading were like; as adults our sphere of influence and associations make the hobby much less solitary that it was. However, in the final analysis, I would suspect that most of what we do on our layouts or buildings or projects in done alone, or with a very select few aficionados.

Finally, if I examine the group demographics on any given weekend at my LHS, the vast majority of the patrons are adults. If there are kids in tow, they're in tow with an adult.

Just like when I was young(er).

David
 
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We never had a hobby shop located where I (Corvallis, OR) live and usually went to Portland where there was a really cool trains only shop located in an old house near downtown. Got my first Tyco train set there which started me on "serious" model railroading - HO gauge. Prior to that we would drag out the Lionel and run it for a few weeks until my mom would make us (my dad and me) put it away. When I got into building a serious layout in my own home, I think my dad was more excited about it than I was. He's now passed on but I'm introducing my grandsons to it and they love it as does my son-in-law. They may start their own layout soon.

The three next door neighbor boys are also trying to talk their dad into starting a layout. I gave them each three "Train Time" coupons for Christmas so they could claim a time to come over and run trains for an hour. They can bring their other brothers and their parents if they wish so all three of them can really come over for a total of nine times. My only stipulation is for two days notice. It's turned out to be a big hit and will likely become a tradition as long as they are interested. It's also forced me to get in there and fine tune things a bit so our operating sessions are as trouble free as possible.

Dan

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Winston Churchill
 
Local Hobby Shop.

The Hobby shop here in Havasu has an extremely limited train inventory, some Flextrack ' one loco and a couple of starter sets.
A few weeks back when passing through Palm Springs( three hours from here) I stopped in at a store and picked up a few bits and pieces, spent about $20.00, big spender.
Yesterday I called the guy and ordered some more stuff, I realize that I could go on the net for the stuff, but I prefer to deal with a "bricks and mortar" store rather than a computer screen, and end up with having to send it back because you pushed the wrong button on the keyboard.
The guy in Palm Springs was real helpful and was very competitive, and I hope to receive the stuff by the weekend.

Mac
 
On the other hand, I remember that back in 'those days' stores stayed in business for years if not decades. The primary goal seemed to be customer service and satisfaction.

Unfortunately most stores and other businesses today are operated with the weekly , monthly, quarterly reports at the only measures that matter. Long term goals or even long term survival is not a consideration. Way too many decisions are made with no regard to anything long term, only short term profits are considered.

I was talking to some people a few days ago about them bankrolling the purchase of a local radio station. That station is part of a small group now and is only surviving on money made by other stations in the group, it is not making enough money to meet expenses. I told the prospective investors that they should plan on investing enough money to not only buy the station, but to operate it at a loss for at least one year, if not two while it is building back up the community identity and trust that it has lost. They started losing interest when I told them it would not even make enough money to break even anytime soon. Such is the world of business these days.
 
About a week before this past Christmas I stumbled back into trains, I had a set when I was a kid. It turns out that the best hobbyshop in th city is a 5 minute drive from my house. Trains aside it's the best store I've ever been in in my life. You walk in the front door and they have a table and chairs set up for whoever wants to take a load off and chat with whoever else wants to do the same. All the staff and customers say hi when you walk through the door, it's kind of like the tv show Cheers. Chuck the guy who runs it is extermely knowledgeable about the hobby and so is most of the other staff icluding one of the stores part-time guys who I recently found out has been into trains since 1959. Awsome place and they can order you what ever you want without money upfront. so for me it's the LHS.
 
Dan's Great Idea

Dan, you hit on a great idea. It got me wondering how I got started and how to get others started.

I got started in model trains by an adult - my grandmother. My dad painted medieval miniatures and built castles; had no interest in trains. (I never picked up on his obsession with miniatures, but it's safe to say that I have built every kind of plastic model every made. By the 4th grade, I had already built more than 100 models, and had won some ribbons at local shows and the Cub Scouts. I finally stopped the models in 1988, only to resume a couple of years ago. Then last Fall I sold over 100 kits on eBay that I had acquired - also on eBay - to finance more trains! No more models that aren't HO!)

My paternal-grandmother bought me a huge Lionel set at FAO Schwartz in NYC. (My parents were divorced and my mother and I had moved to California where her relatives had located when they emigrated from Germany in the 1930s.) This Lionel set was especially packaged for FAO Schwartz, and came with the complete Santa Fe Super Chief train (with both passenger cars and freight cars so you could run either consist) and the US Marine Corp Battle train (with missile launchers, helicopters, tanks,a Heliport - the list goes on). There was enough track and turnouts to run three concentric ovals. To this day, I have no idea what it cost her, but it must have been a fortune even in 1960s dollars. Every year until her death she sent me Lionel cars and accessories on my birthday, Hannukah, Mother's Day, Father's Day; any excuse it seemed. (Her father was an engineer in the DR when they lived in Germany, but she was thoroughly Americanized - probably why she didn't send me Marklin or Fleischmann!)

As I wrote previously, I have tried without success to interest my nephews in model railroading. I've taken them (dragged might be how they would put it!) to various LHS, let them run my large European Marklin Digital layout (whose controls make it easy to operate and difficult to screw up), and gone to shows with them. The 13-year old prefers baseball and computers; the 9-year like tools and building birdhouses and has this odd obsession with garbage trucks. (Don't ask me, I only work here. But I fed the fever by buying him several of those large-scale garbage trucks by Bruder.) Both are also obsessed with video games, but they couldn't care less about racing/driving video games or train simulation games.

However, your idea of inviting neighborhood kids over on 'Open Houses' or coupon nights is interesting. Frankly, someone got to keep the interest alive. I don't see the manufacturers doing it; with the except of Thomas the Train they seem to be catering to us!

David
 
It may just be that the combination of warning labels screaming about kids--up to the age of 15(?):confused::mad:--might eat the dang train models and the unattended children issues at shows might be scaring everyone into having coniption fits that we now have issues with trying to entice little children into the hobby. :mad::eek: After all, we're afraid of the kids getting hurt playing then we worry about them getting too big because the only thing they've got for their own enjoyment are those video games---ooopps---off the soapbox---:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some ppl may crab about Thomas the Tank Engine--but hey--if it the only way 'allowed' in this coocoo world then I'm all for it.:)
 
Hello Carey!

If I may speak for Rex as well as myself, thinking that this idea of not allowing kids in the store unless accompanied by an adult does not serve the LHS well in the long term, probably comes from our own childhood experiences (see above as we wax enthusiastic).

Our interest in this hobby, which has burned bright for over 45 years (at least in my case) came about only because we could walk into our LHS - usually after walking or riding a bicycle many miles (Yes, and we walked miles and miles to school; in driving rain and freezing snow - Yes, heard that before...) - and be welcomed as a customer whose money, as meager as it was, was welcomed like any adult's.

Those LHS were, at least to my mind, grooming their future customers. That no longer happens; at least I don't see it.

And that simple fact, to my mind, spells doom for the LHS. The online retailers cannot do this, and frankly don't care, as they have a customer base that has very few boundaries. The LHS was, and is for the most part (unless they have an online facility) dependent upon the neighborhood.

Of course, one can argue that we don't really have neighborhoods any longer. One can jump in the car and go for miles to get what one wants. Actually, I think that this is the exception that proves the rule. If the LHS fails to groom it's future customer base, then it may find that that customer base has indeed fled to greener pastures. They got in the car and went!

I know that when I was a kid in the US, and even as an adult in Germany, when and where the LHS was king; I identified with my LHS. At school and at clubs, we all touted our LHS as being the best. Sometimes, especially in Germany, it got as personal as the football team we cheered for.

So when I see a "No Unaccompanied Children" sign, I see an LHS that is trying to slit it's own throat. And based on the ever shrinking number of LHS; succeeding only too well.

David

I don't think you understood what I wrote.

Here's what I said;

"I have to disagree, at least for this shop.

Our LHS has that sign as well, but given the location of the store, on a busy 4-lane highway, no traffic lights, schools or residences really near, that is not a real problem for them, and probably won't ever be. The few kids that do come in alone gets treated with respect as any other customer is."

Skip a sentence about brio/thomas;

"... is really for the parents to see what lights up their child's eyes when the child "drags" their parents into the shop, while the parents are coming to shop at others stores in this strip mall."

I have to describe the area a little better. Its located on a major artery into Birmingham. According to ALDOT, (Alabama Department of Transportation), just today's traffic count on US-31 was 33,268, since midnight, with the majority of the traffic between the hours of 9AM and 7PM. No parent in their right mind is going to allow their "minor children" to walk, or bike along this busy of a highway.

There is nothing but other commercial enterprises along the highway here for at least 5 miles in each direction. These range from 7-11 type stores to major retail stores to medium industrial areas. Even the closest school, 1 mile away, won't allow their children to walk or bike to or from the school due to US-31.

The owners have been in the train store business for over 25yrs before they moved here from Florida, due to Florida's new tax laws. They came here in August looking to open a new store, or to buy one out. They bought out a LHS that was more concentrated toward RC than trains. The store is now over 60% trains. New inventory is coming in daily, and they are working with a Web Design co. to get a new web site for the store. Dave and his wife Beth, also has the smarts to ask what the locals want or need. Then he goes and gets it.

I've never had an LHS like you or Rex describe while I was growing up. Instead I did have very supportive parents. Please read my last comments to Trent in the, "Atlas Turnout Mod", thread just a little further down here in discussions, to see my experiences with my not so LHS growing up.
I got my first train, A Marx Clockwork, at 4. My first electric at 5. For my 6th Christmas, I got 2 American Flyer train sets. At age 8 I discovered HO at the train shop in Prattville. Been in HO since, and I'm pushing 56yo now. I even still have my first car kit, Silver Streak, Southern RR, 40ft Automobile car. That car has been rebuilt several times since then, but I do still have it.

When it comes to LHS's, I figure that someone who has run a successful one for 25yrs, knows a little more about the business than either you or I do. If they want to keep a sign that they themselves chose to ignore in practice, (wonder if they have it for insurance purposes???) who are we to argue?
 
Hey Carey, I have been meaning to ask if they still use the same name for the shop. Also, do they have Rick's RR&Co. layout still in the window?
 
Hey Carey, I have been meaning to ask if they still use the same name for the shop. Also, do they have Rick's RR&Co. layout still in the window?

Same name.

Same layout, but its going to be changed into two simple ovals with just timing circuits. The computer keeps crashing, and Dave is fed up with having to hand reset the positions of all the trains, and then reboot the computer, and restart the program. Dave said its performed correctly only one day since he's had the store, and he's tired of it.

Somethings either wrong with Ric's scenarios or the computer is bad. Ric checked the interface last week and couldn't find anything wrong with it. But Ric admits he "ain't no computer geek!"
 
Ha...maybe I should work out something with Dave and come over and fix it for him. I have mine running good with automatic or manual trains.

Just kidding! No way would I get into someone else's programming.:eek:
 



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