Layout Design Help

[quakers1]

Hello all..It has been awhile since I have said anything here, but after some months of waiting to see if a larger space would open up for a model railroad, I'm glad to say my wait was worth it.

First off, as of now, i do have an unfinished room at my disposal (yes, i'll have to do some work to get it ready...it's not suitable to house a railroad just yet). The dimensions of this space is 20x30 feet. There is a large doorway in the lower right corner (i have plans to possibly narrow it), and there is a smaller one on the short wall adjacent to this corner, which leads to an office. As of now, i have plans to set up a computer in here, which will be used to dispatch the railroad (and possibly other things).

-On top of this, there is a possibility to open the wall on the lower left corner, and create a side extension room as large as 12x20 feet. This would make the layout's dimensions 40x30 feet. If i choose HO scale to model, i'll probably build the side extension. If I go N scale, I might just not go with it since it would create just too much space to try and fill in said scale. I'm guessing 20x30 is a great space to have for both HO and N scale?

Now, we'll move on to the second thing I want to ask: TRACK. On all of my past railroads, i have used Atlas Code 100 and Code 80 track (HO and N respectively). But, this time, i'm definitely going to go Code 83 (if I go HO) or Code 55 (of i go N). Is Atlas track good to use on a large layout???

That is about all of the major things I can think of. Now, it is on to some other smaller questions I have. I managed to write them all down, and I'll list them here:

-My preferred scale to model is N scale, simply because it is easy to model long trains. Some of these trains will have long cars such as Auto Carriers, 89' TOFC Cars, and since it is modern era, big 6-axle locomotives. I have heard longer trains require larger curves. Since I plan on wanting to run 4-5 foot trains (some of which will have long cars), would 20" or so curves do the job, or should I go a bit larger?

-I do hear that slow-motion switch machines are much more realistic, and less noisy. But, i am concerned about their bulkiness. Will they be a problem to use in large yards? Also, which brand of them is better??? Tortoise (by Circuitron), or Switchmaster?

-As with any large railroad, staging yard(s) are a must. In my original drawings, I had the staging in other rooms. But, these rooms will be used for other purposes. Would running ramps behind the backdrop, and having the staging at a location under the layout be a good idea? If so, how far below the layout should it be, and what is a good grade percentage to have the ramps at?

-Speaking of layout height, I am restricted to a max of 48" (4 feet) off the floor of the room due to windows. I stand at 6' 2", but several people i plan having on the operations crew are pretty short, so it would be chest high or so to them. Is 48" a good height for a layout?

So, that is about all I can think of to ask at this time. As I come up with more loose ends I need to tie, I'll post the questions in this thread. Thank you in advance for any advice and help, and thanks even more for reading this message!!!

Cheers,

-Ace

 

[RW&C]

Lots of questions, let's see if I can further confuse you about a few of them.

If you're worried about curves, you can get away with smaller radii in N than in HO. For a great big mainline you'll want to use the widest curves you can get away with in the space you have, with sharper curves in switching if needed. (If you're never going to push a heavyweight passenger car into an industrial spur, why design the spur to accommodate the longer car?)

I plan to do double-deck staging as well, and I like your idea of running the track along the backdrop while it drops. The more separation there is between the two decks, the longer your grade has to be, but at the same time you'll probably have to clear switch machines, not to mention sticking your hand in to clean things out, repair trackwork, and rerail cars. I guess you could put the staging higher up and have the tracks slalom around the switch machines and wiring, or you could go all out and use a helix. Don't put the decks so close that you can't get in there to fix stuff, clean the track, etc, or you'll be tearing your hair out later.

Also remember that a grade needs an easement (you can't go from flat to full grade in an inch). This will lengthen somewhat the amount of space you need for your grade. Since you're running six-axle diesels (the wheel sets follow track irregularities much better than rigid-wheelbase steamers), you should be able to get away with short easements.

IMO your max grade is just under the steepest your weakest locomotive can handle with a typical load. You'll need gentler grades for weaker engines, lighter engines, and heavier trains. Six-axle diesels should be pretty forgiving, again, of steep grades, especially if you plan to run double-headers, but test everything before you nail anything down. Keep in mind that, by building grades only a well-weighted diesel can scale, you rule out running other equipment (excursion trains, steam locomotives, etc) into your staging area.

I imagine that a load of Tortoises could start to get cluttered. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you can mount them in multiple positions, or fab up a linkage with some tempered wire and mount the motor away from the switch. I've never used switch machines, so I don't know for sure. If you're really cramped for space, you might want to consider manual throws, with knobs or something on the fascia.

The only complaints I've heard with Atlas are about their switches. I find that the rails exiting the frog (at least on their code 80 stuff) are close enough that a badly-aligned wheelset will short them, and I've heard that they often require filing or other adjustment to the points. More and more people are building their own, or using Peco turnouts. I've found no fault with their flextrack though.

Height is totally dependent on the operators. I'd say put it at reasonable height, then bring in adjustable office chairs for everyone so they can adjust for their preferred viewing angle. All I can say for sure is that three feet off the ground is way too low, unless you or your operating crew are midgets.

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[quakers1]

Lots of questions, let's see if I can further confuse you about a few of them.

If you're worried about curves, you can get away with smaller radii in N than in HO. For a great big mainline you'll want to use the widest curves you can get away with in the space you have, with sharper curves in switching if needed. (If you're never going to push a heavyweight passenger car into an industrial spur, why design the spur to accommodate the longer car?)

I plan to do double-deck staging as well, and I like your idea of running the track along the backdrop while it drops. The more separation there is between the two decks, the longer your grade has to be, but at the same time you'll probably have to clear switch machines, not to mention sticking your hand in to clean things out, repair trackwork, and rerail cars. I guess you could put the staging higher up and have the tracks slalom around the switch machines and wiring, or you could go all out and use a helix. Don't put the decks so close that you can't get in there to fix stuff, clean the track, etc, or you'll be tearing your hair out later.

Also remember that a grade needs an easement (you can't go from flat to full grade in an inch). This will lengthen somewhat the amount of space you need for your grade. Since you're running six-axle diesels (the wheel sets follow track irregularities much better than rigid-wheelbase steamers), you should be able to get away with short easements.

IMO your max grade is just under the steepest your weakest locomotive can handle with a typical load. You'll need gentler grades for weaker engines, lighter engines, and heavier trains. Six-axle diesels should be pretty forgiving, again, of steep grades, especially if you plan to run double-headers, but test everything before you nail anything down. Keep in mind that, by building grades only a well-weighted diesel can scale, you rule out running other equipment (excursion trains, steam locomotives, etc) into your staging area.

I imagine that a load of Tortoises could start to get cluttered. I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you can mount them in multiple positions, or fab up a linkage with some tempered wire and mount the motor away from the switch. I've never used switch machines, so I don't know for sure. If you're really cramped for space, you might want to consider manual throws, with knobs or something on the fascia.

The only complaints I've heard with Atlas are about their switches. I find that the rails exiting the frog (at least on their code 80 stuff) are close enough that a badly-aligned wheelset will short them, and I've heard that they often require filing or other adjustment to the points. More and more people are building their own, or using Peco turnouts. I've found no fault with their flextrack though.

Height is totally dependent on the operators. I'd say put it at reasonable height, then bring in adjustable office chairs for everyone so they can adjust for their preferred viewing angle. All I can say for sure is that three feet off the ground is way too low, unless you or your operating crew are midgets.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Hello. First off, thank you for your response!

I have seen smaller curves on N Scale layouts, now thanks to your info, I know they will fly. And I completely agree on using smaller curves in places where your larger cars will never go. Seems like this practice could ultimately save space! I plan on using 21" curves on my mainline, and I might use curves as small as 15" on branchlines that will never play host to big 6-axle diesels, and long trains and freightcars.

As far as my staging plan, I thought it was pretty good. Just needed it confirmed. And I know any grade should be an easement. On real railroads, you will never see track go straight from flat to grade, so I won't do this on my railroad.

As far as my switch machines, I will probably use Tortoises on the mainline, and have them controlled with buttons near the location of the turnout it controls. For yards, and industrial tracks, I will go with manually operated ground throws.

As far as my track, I might wind up going all Peco, simply because of the great reviews I've heard, and how well I've seen them operate (only operated HO scale ones). I did think of handlaying them, but i decided i don't really want to do that.

Also, there is still a chance I might go HO Scale. It all depends on the prototype I choose. It's most likely I'll stick with N scale, simply because it takes up less space, and it doesn't take very much to run long trains, which is what I love in model railroading (long equipment rules too!).

And for height, i'll stick with the max of 48" (I might go a bit lower, since some of the people I plan on having on the operation crew are a bit on the small side).

Thanks for all the help!

-Ace