Hi Everyone. I just wanted to do a little informal poll to see if people are mostly using DCC or DC. I realize this could be a little skewed as there are probably many people who have DC layouts and do not participate in the forums, but I was just curious. It seems like the amount of work it would take to convert locomotives, properly wire the layout, and expense to get up and running just makes many people stick with DC. I'd also find it annoying to have to address locomotives every time I put them on the track. Thanks.
Is Your Layout DC or DCC
- Thread starter KisNap
- Start date
It really doesn't take any longer to wire your layout for DCC than it does for DC. The juice has to go to all the same places. You can get into some gymnastics if you want a dual control setup, which may require some redundant components and/or wiring. Decoder installs these days are mostly plug & play, though converting older models to DCC can sometimes get complicated. DCC is by far a more flexible operating system, and offers you much more in control than DC. It is also the best hope of attracting new generations to the hobby. Younger people want more interactivity these days. DCC and sound gives you that. As for addressing locos, you only do this when you want to run one, and that's no more difficult than changing the channel on your TV with the remote!
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marriedshades
Member
Right now im running both the dc is in slow phase out to dcc
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Converting a large layout with lots of locos to DCC is a big task. I can understand the reluctance to do this.
But the benefits! Oh my!
Think about never again having to worry about switching blocks from one cab to another. Think of never again mistakenly running a loco into a block assigned to a different cab and having it jerk to a stop. Think of being able to run multiple locos at the same time without ever having to be concerned with which block they are in or remembering to stash idle locos on dead tracks.
The layout wiring might not have to be changed at all when converting from DC to DCC. It can be as simple as disconnecting one of your DC power packs and connecting a DCC command station in its place. Many modelers have done this as a quick way to get on DCC. They leave all the block switching hardware in place but simply switch all blocks to the DCC command station. Eventually, they'll get around to tearing out all that block switching, but that can be done anytime.
If starting a new layout, DCC is the obvious choice if you ever plan to run more than one loco at the same time. Running even two locos on a DC layout requires wiring the layout for block switching. With DCC you can have any number of locos on the layout without any block switching. The money you save by not buying the hardware for a block switching system goes a long way toward paying for the DCC system.
To me, the savings in my time is even more valuable. I am good at all types of wiring, and I have constructed a multiple cab DC layout in the past. With DCC, I still have to run a bus and drop feeders, but I do not have to spend any time to wire up switches for block control. The time saved can go toward scenery, structures, etc.
Just my 2 cents worth!
- Jeff
But the benefits! Oh my!
Think about never again having to worry about switching blocks from one cab to another. Think of never again mistakenly running a loco into a block assigned to a different cab and having it jerk to a stop. Think of being able to run multiple locos at the same time without ever having to be concerned with which block they are in or remembering to stash idle locos on dead tracks.
The layout wiring might not have to be changed at all when converting from DC to DCC. It can be as simple as disconnecting one of your DC power packs and connecting a DCC command station in its place. Many modelers have done this as a quick way to get on DCC. They leave all the block switching hardware in place but simply switch all blocks to the DCC command station. Eventually, they'll get around to tearing out all that block switching, but that can be done anytime.
If starting a new layout, DCC is the obvious choice if you ever plan to run more than one loco at the same time. Running even two locos on a DC layout requires wiring the layout for block switching. With DCC you can have any number of locos on the layout without any block switching. The money you save by not buying the hardware for a block switching system goes a long way toward paying for the DCC system.
To me, the savings in my time is even more valuable. I am good at all types of wiring, and I have constructed a multiple cab DC layout in the past. With DCC, I still have to run a bus and drop feeders, but I do not have to spend any time to wire up switches for block control. The time saved can go toward scenery, structures, etc.
Just my 2 cents worth!
- Jeff
Went from Hogger to a pair of Innovators to Digitrax.
After 12 years I think DCC isn't so good with running at the very slowest speeds, so it is less realistic for my steam locos.
I had 2 BLI Y6b's, and some brass as well as a Bachman J and a USRA 4-8-2 heavy.
All had 163 series decoders.
I put a DC plug into my Y6b and it runs smoother, and doesn't have that irritating stop and restart you get at very low speeds.
All the engines I've removed the DCC stuff from run better. My un modified Athearn Trainmasters run quietly again. My Sunset N&W M's run like Swiss watches. I think DCC is over rated.
After 12 years I think DCC isn't so good with running at the very slowest speeds, so it is less realistic for my steam locos.
I had 2 BLI Y6b's, and some brass as well as a Bachman J and a USRA 4-8-2 heavy.
All had 163 series decoders.
I put a DC plug into my Y6b and it runs smoother, and doesn't have that irritating stop and restart you get at very low speeds.
All the engines I've removed the DCC stuff from run better. My un modified Athearn Trainmasters run quietly again. My Sunset N&W M's run like Swiss watches. I think DCC is over rated.
I have never had a layout with DCC because when I was active, it was just starting to come in. I'm sure it has lots to recommend it and If I were starting again I would probably set up with it.
This debate reminds me of Kadee couplers many years ago. They were more realistic, worked better, and allowed switching but they were expensive. The complaint I always heard was that it cost $2.50 per car to switch over. This was when car kits were between 3 and 7 dollars. It was a big chunk of change if you had 50 loco's and 200 pieces of rolling stock. After a while, if you ran on layouts that had them, you bit the bullet and converted. I'm sure that DCC is much the same. If you operate on layouts with it and you have savvy people who can help train you on it, sooner or latter you're going to use it.
I've been out of the hobby for about 15 years but I still have around 50 locomotives that would need to be converted over and many of them have old motors that I'm told would have to be replaced. If I do build a new layout, I'm sure I will start getting loco's with DCC but I can't see going exclusively to it. Just me but then, I'm Old!!
Steve
This debate reminds me of Kadee couplers many years ago. They were more realistic, worked better, and allowed switching but they were expensive. The complaint I always heard was that it cost $2.50 per car to switch over. This was when car kits were between 3 and 7 dollars. It was a big chunk of change if you had 50 loco's and 200 pieces of rolling stock. After a while, if you ran on layouts that had them, you bit the bullet and converted. I'm sure that DCC is much the same. If you operate on layouts with it and you have savvy people who can help train you on it, sooner or latter you're going to use it.
I've been out of the hobby for about 15 years but I still have around 50 locomotives that would need to be converted over and many of them have old motors that I'm told would have to be replaced. If I do build a new layout, I'm sure I will start getting loco's with DCC but I can't see going exclusively to it. Just me but then, I'm Old!!
Steve
Burlington Bob
Well-Known Member
I've been acquiring new locos, rolling stock, etc. for my soon to start (depending on Atlas' timeline) CB&Q layout. I now have 13 locos and I have installed decoders in them as I bought them. I'm using a Zephr Extra system and right now I only have a 2x4 oval with a programming track to operate on. While my N scale locos run great on DC they run fantastic on DCC. I've found that TCS decoders seem to be a little smoother than Digitrax but both are very good and all of my locos (all diesel) run very quietly. The one thing that stands out more than anything to me is the ability to program momentum effects. You can easily mimic a long, heavy train starting or stopping and the realism is fantastic. There is so much that DCC enables us to do with our trains that I think it is right up there alongside the development of the latest loco designs that allow the smooth running with DC. Yes, it's a little added expense but in my opinion, well worth it!
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logandsawman
Well-Known Member
I find DC simple and straightforward, and hey, the trains look the same!
lasm
lasm
rodney mcgiveron
Member
G'day....Too many nice old analog loco's to completely do away with DC....but predominantly DCC now in HO..Eventually if space permits I'd like to have a third main track just for a seperate DC run around but just all depends on how much the intermodal yard will take up...Cheers Rod..
steveparkinson
Member
Currently DC but soon to be DC and DCC. I'll probably keep it both until I phase out or upgrade to DCC the rest of my DC locos.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Steve
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
runaway_geep
Member
I just went DCC in the last couple of weeks with an NCE PowerCab system. Love it so far!
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Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2
Roger Hensley
Member
I went DCC about three years ago. Because I was DC, I had a little trouble getting everything to work correctly, but once I did, I am well satisfied with it. Ok, I permanently retired two old locomotives rather than convert them. I did have to convert three locomotives and purchase three new ones, but I was going to make the purchase anyway.
In other words, I am very happy that I made the change despite the fact that I had a few problems making the conversion.
In other words, I am very happy that I made the change despite the fact that I had a few problems making the conversion.
I think you're doing something wrong. Did you just use the stock decoder settings?
I have no such issues with DCC and low speeds - just the opposite - much better low speed performance.
And DCC isn't really about low speeds - it's more about the ability to run multiple locos just about anywhere. It's very satisfying to pull a helper loco up behind a train much like in real life.
It's also, in a sense, about the ability to have a unified control system for sound, turnouts, signals, accessories, etc.
The development of DCC control systems has allowed me to automate my entire layout, freeing my to focus on operating the trains rather then the layout. It also allows me to have the computer run, for example, through trains while I work a local - adding to the interest.
And for visitors who are not model railroaders but just like to see trains run I can put the layout into full automatic "demo" mode and have a half dozen or more trains running all at the same time.
Charles Smiley
cspmovies
QUOTE: "...After 12 years I think DCC isn't so good with running at the very slowest speeds"
There is no way DC (or really unfiltered "pulse" DC from most modern power-packs) can compete in smoothness with a DCC decoder that is equipped with Back-EMF. You might want to explore all the possible settings in any decoders you presently have. Or Try a LokSound decoder as they seem to have the best algorithms fro servo motor control.
Having said that - there are decoders, with the wrong settings in the CV tables, that can do some strange things.
There is no way DC (or really unfiltered "pulse" DC from most modern power-packs) can compete in smoothness with a DCC decoder that is equipped with Back-EMF. You might want to explore all the possible settings in any decoders you presently have. Or Try a LokSound decoder as they seem to have the best algorithms fro servo motor control.
Having said that - there are decoders, with the wrong settings in the CV tables, that can do some strange things.
I would have to agree with Charles. I have done many DCC and Sound/DCC installs on brass steamers. Mine run smooth at slow speeds, much better than DC. it's all in the programming, which is not as complicated as you might think!
goscrewyourselves
I'm the one
Mine is soon to be DCC...
DairyStateDad
Mumbling in the corner
Mine will be DCC when I put some decoders in my engines -- or rather, have them put in my engines. And when I get my DCC starter set from NEC. 
IronBeltKen
Lazy Daydreamer
I'm what you might call a "late bloomer" to DCC.
I bought a Digitrax Chief* system in July 2000, but a number of unexpected situations delayed my ability to construct a layout; and once I finally had the benchwork up and track laid 5 years later, I was in too much of a hurry to just "get the trains running" to bother with spending what I thought would be thousands of dollars, and learning to install decoders, before I actually bit the bullet and did my first install in early 2007. It didn't take long for me to discover the joys of being able to move a loco on the same section of track as a stationary loco in an engine terminal, speed-match locos of two different brands, or run rear-end helpers. And a few years later when I decided to raze and rebuild my layout, it was great to not have to worry about wiring 40 separate blocks with switches.
At this point I couldn't imagine ever going back to plain DC.
* I eventually sold my Digitrax and got an NCE system since that was what all my club friends were using - but that's a whole 'nother story!
I bought a Digitrax Chief* system in July 2000, but a number of unexpected situations delayed my ability to construct a layout; and once I finally had the benchwork up and track laid 5 years later, I was in too much of a hurry to just "get the trains running" to bother with spending what I thought would be thousands of dollars, and learning to install decoders, before I actually bit the bullet and did my first install in early 2007. It didn't take long for me to discover the joys of being able to move a loco on the same section of track as a stationary loco in an engine terminal, speed-match locos of two different brands, or run rear-end helpers. And a few years later when I decided to raze and rebuild my layout, it was great to not have to worry about wiring 40 separate blocks with switches.
At this point I couldn't imagine ever going back to plain DC.
* I eventually sold my Digitrax and got an NCE system since that was what all my club friends were using - but that's a whole 'nother story!
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Santa Fe Jack
out of the closet
I thought a lot about this when I started my layout.
I made a conscious decision to go with DC block control, in part *because* of the challenge it provides. I have 11 blocks cross-wired to 4 controllers, and LED-enhanced switches to help know what is what. But as I constructed the track, I was conscious of DCC, and so I got DCC-compatible turnouts so that if some time the layout were to be converted, it could be done in an hour.
I do not regret my decision. And as far as attracting the next generation, I have found that they also enjoy the challenge of having to think their way through the operations -- it requires logic, planning, and cooperation. And everyone loves the little colored LED indicator lights around the layout. I will also admit, however, that most folks who see this particular layout (e.g. house guests) have never heard of DCC. But they are fascinated by the workings of this layout. To tell the truth, so am I. If it were DCC, I would probably bore of it after some time, but as DC, it is always a challenge to see how to get two different locos to handle the double crossover ans they switch loops, or head into the yard, or navigate the sneaky back way in to the turntable.
I made a conscious decision to go with DC block control, in part *because* of the challenge it provides. I have 11 blocks cross-wired to 4 controllers, and LED-enhanced switches to help know what is what. But as I constructed the track, I was conscious of DCC, and so I got DCC-compatible turnouts so that if some time the layout were to be converted, it could be done in an hour.
I do not regret my decision. And as far as attracting the next generation, I have found that they also enjoy the challenge of having to think their way through the operations -- it requires logic, planning, and cooperation. And everyone loves the little colored LED indicator lights around the layout. I will also admit, however, that most folks who see this particular layout (e.g. house guests) have never heard of DCC. But they are fascinated by the workings of this layout. To tell the truth, so am I. If it were DCC, I would probably bore of it after some time, but as DC, it is always a challenge to see how to get two different locos to handle the double crossover ans they switch loops, or head into the yard, or navigate the sneaky back way in to the turntable.
Soon, Tony, soon - it's been a busy day here - lots of unexpected visitors doing this that and the other.
