Intermountain Trouble


macjet

macjet

Member
I went down to the club tonight to run my 28 car unit grain train. This was the first time that the majority of these cars had ever run on rails. The mix consisted mainly of Accurail, P2K, and Athearn, with a mix of other odd balls and my four new Intermountain cars.

All cars are factory weighted.

All cars are equipped with metal wheels.

All cars have Kadee #5 couplers set to the correct height.

The three 54' Pullman Standard cars are the one that gave me fits. The ACF 4650 cu ft C plate car ran well. Between these three cars they had to have come off the track at least 12 times. I finally wound up pulling them and dragging them at the end of the train.

Funny thing is my cheaper Accurail cars ran flawless. I'm a little frustrated that my new $25 cars were the least reliable.

I'm open to thoughts and ideas to smoother running. As a side note, these three cars are running 36" wheels although they aren't the only 36" wheel cars.
 
1. Free rolling wheels?
2. Free turning trucks?
3. free motion couplers?

Are you using truck shims to adjust the height on the IM cars? Try them w/o if so...
 
Funny how the cheaper cars seem to perform better....anyhow, before operating them, did you by chance run the truck frames thru a truing machine? What I mean by a truing machine, it looks like a sawed off drill bit you place in the frame where the axle goes and spin it a few times to clean up the holes where the axle pins spin in. Also, are the trucks too tight or too loose on the screw holding them to the car? Either way, bad news. Are the Kadee couplers too loose or too tight in their boxes? Believe me, I'm very far from being a model railroad expert, but these are just a few tips I did learn from others. Best of luck to you!!

Regards,
 
macjet said:
I'm open to thoughts and ideas to smoother running. As a side note, these three cars are running 36" wheels although they aren't the only 36" wheel cars.
Click to expand...

Intermountain's trucks on the big hoppers (the 4750 and the Canadian cylindrical) are Junk with a capital J and have been since day one. I think they may have finally gone to a solid truck with better wheel sets but that was fairly recently. If the trucks are the stupid "equalized" type, they are good for target practice or to savor the sound of them hitting the bottom of your wastebasket.

Back when they were first released in RTR form, I put two of them on the track - they derailed, as in all eight axles on the ground, after pulling them two feet.

I have long ago replaced all of mine with Kadee #513 trucks, but you could substitute Athearn Genesis trucks or any one of a half dozen other 100-ton trucks that work.

I have one brand new IM 4750 with their new solid trucks, and it runs fine. Easy enough to check - if they twist at all, pitch 'em.

Andy
 
I was going to suggest the very same thing as Rotor. The very first thing I check on a new car is wheel gauge and second is axle truing. I would guess that about 20% of all my RTR cars come with wheels seriously out of gauge and 10% have enough junk in the axle bearing holes to seriously affect how well the cars roll. These things roll off assembly lines in China and the quality control of little things like this leaves a lot to be desired.
 
jbaakko said:
1. Free rolling wheels?
2. Free turning trucks?
3. free motion couplers?

Are you using truck shims to adjust the height on the IM cars? Try them w/o if so...
Click to expand...

1. All wheels except the Intermountain have been replaced with, well, Intermountain wheels. :confused: Maybe I messed up here.

2. All trucks are adjusted to be free turning

3. All couplers move freely and return to center

Yes. I am using Kadee truck shims to adjust the coupler height.
 
Railroad Joe said:
Funny how the cheaper cars seem to perform better....anyhow, before operating them, did you by chance run the truck frames thru a truing machine? What I mean by a truing machine, it looks like a sawed off drill bit you place in the frame where the axle goes and spin it a few times to clean up the holes where the axle pins spin in. Also, are the trucks too tight or too loose on the screw holding them to the car? Either way, bad news. Are the Kadee couplers too loose or too tight in their boxes? Believe me, I'm very far from being a model railroad expert, but these are just a few tips I did learn from others. Best of luck to you!!

Regards,
Click to expand...

No. I've never heard of a truing machine. I'll have to look into this. Thanks.

The Kadee's are set pretty well. All move freely and return to center. A few need the "brake hose" adjusted up but the all still clear the height gauge.
 
el3637 said:
Intermountain's trucks on the big hoppers (the 4750 and the Canadian cylindrical) are Junk with a capital J and have been since day one. I think they may have finally gone to a solid truck with better wheel sets but that was fairly recently. If the trucks are the stupid "equalized" type, they are good for target practice or to savor the sound of them hitting the bottom of your wastebasket.

Back when they were first released in RTR form, I put two of them on the track - they derailed, as in all eight axles on the ground, after pulling them two feet.

I have long ago replaced all of mine with Kadee #513 trucks, but you could substitute Athearn Genesis trucks or any one of a half dozen other 100-ton trucks that work.

I have one brand new IM 4750 with their new solid trucks, and it runs fine. Easy enough to check - if they twist at all, pitch 'em.

Andy
Click to expand...

Two came off ebay and one was in the new release section at the LHS. I'll take a look at all three and see if there is a difference and whether any of them flex at all.
 
UP2CSX said:
I was going to suggest the very same thing as Rotor. The very first thing I check on a new car is wheel gauge and second is axle truing. I would guess that about 20% of all my RTR cars come with wheels seriously out of gauge and 10% have enough junk in the axle bearing holes to seriously affect how well the cars roll. These things roll off assembly lines in China and the quality control of little things like this leaves a lot to be desired.
Click to expand...

I'll have to check. I never considered a problem with the trucks and I assumed the replacement and factory Intermountain wheels were good to go.
 
I check the gauge of all the wheels on all the cars I buy. If they're replacements or stock, doesn't matter.

As far as the free-rolling is concerned, after I put them into the truck frames, I give them a hefty spin. Passing is if they make a sustained ZZZZZ! sound and spin for 5-10 seconds. If it doesn't, that tells me that there's something inside the truck frames that is hanging them up.

Kennedy
 
Not sure this is a "good" recommendation, but almost every car I've gotten with problems similar to yours has been fixed by putting cheap old MTL plastic wheels with high flanges onto the car. At our club setup last weekend , one member had an Athearn 65" Gondola that kept jumping the track....he put new wheels on with no affect..so he went and got some different wheels (all wheels low profile) and still no change. He finally commented he was giving up and throwing the car in a junk box. I traded him a different car for the Gon, put a set of High flange wheels on it and it ran perfectly the rest of the show. I had a similar problem/fix with a DI woodchip hopper last night. I've decided sometimes you just gotta go with what works, and I'd rather have a car with non-prototypical wheels that goes around the track than one that looks good but won't stay on the track.
 
As one whom just bought 12 IM/ACF 4650 3 bay hoppers are these problems with them all or just certain runs ?
 
tlark said:
As one whom just bought 12 IM/ACF 4650 3 bay hoppers are these problems with them all or just certain runs ?
Click to expand...

I don't think it should be a problem with the 4650 - it's fairly new. The 4750 and the cylindrical have been made for 15+ years now and the vast majority of them have the crappy twisty-flex trucks.

Andy
 
el3637 said:
Intermountain's trucks on the big hoppers (the 4750 and the Canadian cylindrical) are Junk with a capital J and have been since day one. I think they may have finally gone to a solid truck with better wheel sets but that was fairly recently. If the trucks are the stupid "equalized" type, they are good for target practice or to savor the sound of them hitting the bottom of your wastebasket.

Back when they were first released in RTR form, I put two of them on the track - they derailed, as in all eight axles on the ground, after pulling them two feet.

I have long ago replaced all of mine with Kadee #513 trucks, but you could substitute Athearn Genesis trucks or any one of a half dozen other 100-ton trucks that work.

I have one brand new IM 4750 with their new solid trucks, and it runs fine. Easy enough to check - if they twist at all, pitch 'em.

Andy
Click to expand...

Ding, ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

I finished my staging/speed matching track last night. I pulled out a RI GP38 and some cars to see how things ran. Right out of the gate these damned Intermountain cars came off the track running through a #6 turnout. All eight wheels on the ground. WTF?

This new track is almost eye level so I disconnected the cars and started rolling things through. These trucks are so warped that only 2-3 wheels are on the rail at any given time.

At least I found the problem. Now I just have to order more parts to fix more stuff that I feel should work out of the gate. Especially at $25-30 per car.

Thanks for all the input.
 
I'm like all the guys that check wheel gauge on everything. Engines, freight cars, passenger cars, etc. Right out of the box, the 1st thing I do is check wheel ga., wheel alignment & wheel spin. I use to have a hill w/about a 3 or 4% grade that I would try all cars to make sure they rolled smooth. It seems like the more expensive a pc. of rolling stock is the more trouble it gives you.
A friend brought me 6 JD(Walthers) pass. cars & I tried everything to keep them suckers on the track. Changed couplers, added weights, cleaned the axle sockets & it still derailed. Then I changed the metal wheelsets to the older deep flange wheels & that fixed the problem.
I still have problems w/some of my newer cars. I found one thing w/the smaller couplers don't work well w/the larger Kadee's. They disconnect real easy, especially on a curve.

Larry
 
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