Help with suspension of loopback


D

DALDEI

Member
I've posted a few pictures on my blog
http://trains.calldei.com/?p=153

I am soliciting suggestions on how to implement the risers. As you can tell what I've done wont work very well :) Its just there to help me get a feel for the dimensions. The roadbed is 2" foam with prety much nothing under it (a few 1'x2s for support) so I cant really screw into it. I can *dig* into it but that doesnt provide much support. As you can see in the background the slow rise against the wall is supported with foam blocks and that works well (I have them glued). But this is getting a bit tall for that. maybe ? Also note this is a sectional layout so I would like something that can be disassembled. Not frequently but maybe in a few years if I move without having to take a chainsaw to the whole thing. This section is not near any walls so I cant attack to the sides. I could drop from the ceiling. But I'm thinking a kind of maybe even tressle like support from the bottom thats freestanding. This is expected to be (mostly) hidden track so I dont care too much about looks, but I want the structures to be fairly small because the outer ground-level loop is supposed to be visible. Of course a few places where they cross can be hidden in a tunnel.

Suggestions welcome !

Thanks all.
-David
 
I guess I can only say I never understood the need for something like this. It seems a maintenance problem other than being unrealistic (except for a few mountain railroads).

Why do you need or want this??
 
Why don't you punch some holes thru the foam to get to the 1x2's so you can attach to them? The way you have it supported now, if there isn't any wood under that foam, it will sag and as a result the track on the loop will sag.

Best bet would be to find a way to get to the underlying wood braces, and attach to them. Otherwise, several years down the line I believe that you will have problems.
 
Thanks for both suggestions.
For #1 Excellent question. My *intent* is that I really really badly want a second deck, shelf-style. And I need some way to get from the first deck to the second. I wanted to avoid a helix because it takes up a lot of room (which I dont have) and none of it is modelable so view/scenery wise its all wasted space. So I tried to go with a "nolix" but there isnt enough horizontal length for a nolix to go up enough so I terminated it with a single loop to create the final rise. Now that I have it constructed I'm realizing it is not what I imagined (although exactly what I planned ! just not looking like what I imagined). I think what I have achieved is a bad nolix AND a bad helix in one. I've used up a lot of the back flat space, more then I imagined, and also the 24"R loopback had to be so very close to the 28"R main level loop that there's practically no realistic way to hide it except having a 270deg cliff 2 feet high. And if I don't hide it, it just looks like a bad helix. And its taking up a huge amount of modeling space nearly as much as a helix would. Maybe more if I count the backdrop straight run. Furthermore I ended up having to make it sorta steep. Avarage about 2 3/4 % grade. When I planned the thing I had only 1 loco and 2 cars and had no experience ... and would get different answers from everyone about how steep is 'too steep' an incline. Now (about a year later) I have 4 locos and 10 cars and a tiny amount of experience. I can get one loco and about 6 cars up the ramp ... but only one of my locos, the other three barely make it on their own so I'll probably need to consist them to make them up ... then there is the falling off problem, that was exciting when a train of 6 runaway cars broke free and speeded down the ramp shooting off the lower curve at a million miles/hour ... quite fun. I actually ran a few intentionally when I had a friend over to catch them. Better then hotwheels !

So now I'm rethinking the whole thing and thinking about ripping it up and adding a helix after all.

As for the other comment about getting holes through the foam. What I ended up doing (and its working OK for right now) is nearly that. I cut holes through the foam and put in 1x3's. I have them supported with clamps right now while I fine tune the grade ... There is some crossing 1x3s under the foam so I'm not getting any noticeable sag, but your comment about years down the line is well taken.
 
How about something like this:
ATTACH]
made from scraps of wood. Where is says roadbed substitute foam. Make them any height necessary in fact if you need a few loops you could have several decks of railway passing through each riser. You may need to add some luan under the foam to give it more support between risers.
-Art
 
Before you start ripping things apart I would suggest that you read some books on benchwork. Kalmbach sells some. If you are having problems figuring out how to make a ramp, a helix will be even more challenging.

A traditional way to make the ramp is to have a series of joists under the lower level and then have "risers", 1x2 or 1x4's coming up from the joists and under the roadbed of the ramp.

If you want a second level then you have to design the first level to accomodate it.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. I have read some books on roadbed construction, and the ramp part is working fine. Also the 2nd level supports are already in place see

For example you can see here the supports for the 2nd level are in place
http://trains.calldei.com/?attachment_id=158

All pretty much 'by the book' ... what isn't 'by the book' is I opted for a foam sub-roadbed instead of wither spline or plywood. Definitely an experimentation, I haven't seen anything like it and so far its working fine except for this case where I tried supporting structure in the middle of the foam. I really like the foam as I'm able to build sections small enough to take apart and move to my shop to work on.

As for building a helix, definitely I wont do that from scratch. (beyond my skills to-date) but looking at several 'kits' available which look within my grasp.
 
Hi,

I agree that you really need something in addition to foam to avoid any sagging issues down the road.

An alternative I don't think has been mentioned is to support it from above - I can't remember where I read it, but there's a big layout that uses long threaded rods mounted in the ceiling holding the mess up. Then scenic the rods as (huge!) trees.....

Cheers,
Ian
 
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