What do you mean by that? The power source goes into a rail and that rail connects to other rails...jbaakko said:SHOULD be electicaly icolated from the main line
Good thing you mentioned that, as I'm planning on getting a 86' boxcar (I once saw it next to a 40' boxcar for MOW duty, very impresive comparisson) and operating it in the industry. I was hoping that all radiuses could take that length.Yes tight curves are ok, its just that you have to watch how snug it is for more modern cars, or longer passenger cars.
Could be, I sure have learned a lot. If I could only visit a model show or club now, I would ask so many questions and pay much closer attention to operating, etc.Yeah its funny cause it seems to get longer every time, lol.
Roman -Once again I'm sorry for asking so many questions.
The answer is none.1. The only major store nearby is a Wal-Mart. Realistically, how much model trains stuff can you buy there, if any?
There are many, many other fine brands (and some not so fine). Get a hold of a Walthers catalog to see just how many! Though, because Athearn and Roundhouse were purchased by a competitor of Walthers, those brands are no longer in the catalog.2. In my online searching it appears that most model RR stuff in HO is made by Athearn, is that just my impression or are there other major brands (for rolling stock and CN/CP/VIA locomotives)
Skipping the part concerning the "how", one of the main reasons you see so many decal sets available is simply economics. There are many, many container lines and it would be cost prohibitive for a manufacturer to design the paint masks and inventory them all. So the manufacturers decorate what they judge to be the most popular and then offer undecorated models to use as the basis for the rest. The same goes for variations in locomotives, freight cars, cabooses, etc.3. I'm only asking because I've found a lot of container decals for sale.
One of my favorite dealers in 1st Place Hobbies. I don't know if they export though. I guess those of us stateside have it pretty easy. You might what to check out George's Trains www.georgestrains.com and Canadian Model Trains www.modeltrains.com. Both specialize in Canadian prototypes and are in Canada.4. As vague as this question is, where do you guys buy your stuff?
a) very common b) 3 dummies is ok c) Yes the dummies can lead but… The but here really applies to the same issues that are involved anytime you are pushing the cars rather than pulling. The physics involved in pushing are different then in pulling, so to prevent derailments, you need to make sure your cars (and consider the dummies as cars), locos, and track are all in good operating order. Cars need to have properly adjusted trucks, centered wheelsets, and be properly weighted. Locos need to be in good operating condition, trucks not binding, etc. The track needs to be properly laid, properly gauged, and clean.5. Speaking of dummies, how common can they be? For instance in a 4 unit lash-up, if 3 are dummies, is that ok? Also, can dummies be leaders or will that make the train run badly?
As Josh said, these items are normally included, though some manufacturers details are better than others and more recent offerings have better details than older issues, even from the same manufacturer. And there are lots and lots of "super detailing" parts available: radio antennas, sun shades for the windows, windshield wipers, etc. Here's where the Walthers catalog is worth its cost, just as a reference book.6. do I assume that accessories such as a numberboard and a light are included, or can I buy them separately as a kit? The same goes for handrails and other small accessories on other units.
Here's an example of why model trains tend to be shorter. The average HO freight car is 5 1/2 inches long (a scale 40 feet). Lets say you build an oval of track on a 4 ft. x 8 ft. sheet of plywood using 22 inch radius curves. You would have just under 20 feet of track. if you connected 40 cars, a locomotive, and a caboose and set them on the track, the front of the locomotive would be about an inch and a half from the rear of the caboose.7. I've heard from a friend (don't know if he hangs around here, he's at RRF a lot though) that everything is a lot smaller on the model RR. So what would a good ratio be? For instance a 100 car train would be 20, 40, 60 cars?
We DC controllers, you need 1 controller per train BUT you also need a layout that supports multiple trains. For DC layouts, this is referred to as Block Control. Each train occupies its own "block", which is electrically isolated from all the other blocks. Before a train can leave its current block and enter a new one, the electrical control must be switched to that train. Wiring a layout for 1 block is easy, for 2, its fairly simple, for 3 a little difficult, 4 - harder, 5 - tough, 6 - a nightmare. That's the reason DCC developed. The DCC concept has been around for a long time, but every manufacturer had a different way of making it work. It wasn't until the NMRA created an open standard (THANKS NMRA) that allowed compatibility between different manufacturers equipment that it really became popular.8. As of right now I have one controller, which is attached to the track. Do I need two controllers to control two trains, three for three, etc., or can I use one?
To answer the second question first, check out the thread regarding Atlas Right Track 7.0 http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1953&highlight=atlas9. Lastly, I need some help with rails. Is there some place online or a program where I can estimate or check what my track outline will look like?
No -- multiple units can be connected and run on DC, but the units must be evenly matched. This will also answer part of a later question, but here goes. When using DC, the controller varies the voltage to the rails. The loco picks up the voltage and the motor turns, driving the wheels. (This is a simplification -- some controllers do really fancy things, like adding voltage spikes ((pulses)) to overcome inertia.) Locos run on a "nominal" 12 volts, meaning at 0 volts, the loco is motionless and at 12 volts it is at its full speed. But usually 12 volts results in an unrealistically high speed. Anyway -- say you want two connect two locos. The first runs at a scale 45 mph when it receives 6 volts. But the other only runs at 30 scale mph at 6 volts. If the slower loco is placed in front, the faster loco will try to push it at the same time it tries to pull the rest of the train. The result is hard on both locos. DCC takes care of this problem.Ok I'm lost here, so there's DCC which allows multiple units and then there's DC which allows just one?
You just don't use your existing controller with a DCC setup -- it has its own controllers and power supply.If my controller is DC, then will a new DCC controller conflict with it?
Yes.Is it still possible to run dummies with DCC though? For the first while anyway, my main power is going to be this weird lash-up: (oddly enough, I've never seen either units in real life)
A DCC decoder needs to be installed in each loco. However, you don't need to use a computer to program the decoders. It can be done using the controller that is part of the DCC starter set.Yes, it says DC on it as well. So with DCC there's a chip that has to be placed in every unit, so I open it up and place it inside, then program DCC using my computer?
Yes -- but you would have to operate then as described in Block Control. One cab routing DC to the black, the other cab routing the DCC controller to the block. But that sort of defeats the whole purpose of DCC. Oh -- here's a good place to mention another benefit of DCC -- really simple wiring! With DCC, full voltage is applied to the rails at all times. A radio frequency control signal is superimposed on the track voltage. The decoder picks up the control signal, and them acts as a miniature DC controller and applies the varying voltage to the motor.Also, can I have a DC and DCC controller at the same time?
Which wire, where. Color is pretty much meaningless in this instance. Depending on which wire and where, its probably both safe and fixable. More info is needed (maybe you provided it later, I just don't recall seeing it.)The reason I'm asking is because I finally put my train online today (after 5 years of no maintenance it ran a total of 10 track pieces before it died), and discovered that one of my wires (the green one if it means anything), has had its wiring end part snapped. Although it seems to work, I wonder how safe it is and if it's fixable.
Locomotives -- very little except to keep the wheels, differentials, and gear sets clean. Track -- I use a chemical cleaner -- I don't use abrasive cleaners (there's a track maintenance thread here somewhere).Speaking of maintenance, what do you guys use to keep your rails and locomotives in shape? I remember reading an instruction on the subject when I first received the kit, but have no idea where it is.
Some different brands of track will work with each other, others won't. Its hard to tell without knowing both the specific brand and type -- Atlas makes several different types.Are all tracks put together that way, or is that a specific brand? The reason I'm asking is because I want the tracks to match with what I already have.
I know its really really hard to give up what you currently have, but in the long run, I believe you'd be better of purchasing individual components (switches ((turnouts)), crossings, etc.) than trying to make the parts of a set work for you.I'm also reconsidering whether its better to buy a start kit (20+ pieces of track) or switches, curves, etc. separately.
Originally Posted by jbaakkoDCC decoder installation is quite complex, I'll admit, BUT it pays out in ease of operation in the end.
Some clubs do, some don't. And yes, a DC loco will not run at a DCC club. (But DCC locos can run at DC clubs -- the decoder has a "bypass me" feature to allow DC operation. And not all decoder installations are complex. Installing a decoder in an older loco can be (there are threads discussing that), but many (most?) newer locos are "DCC ready". Installing a decoder is as simple as removing a jumper and plugging the decoder in. And once you get to try DCC operation, you'll be hooked!I'm having that feeling too. Do most clubs run DCC as well? Does this mean that a DC trainset would not run at a club?
If you're still not convinced of the benefits of DCC, or really need to delay installing it, and really want two or more DC cabs, ask again about installing block wiring and I'll go into detail on how to do it.So if I have a switch, one branch from it is controlled with one DC, the other with the other one? Also, what would an advantage of two power sources be, if any.
Hopefully not.BTW, does the power source come with its own rail piece for hooking up with the other rails?
The number of a switch refers to the angle of the frog. It is the ratio of the "run" to the "rise". In a number 4 switch, the diverging rail would be 1" away from the main rail at a point 4" from the frog. In a number 8 switch, the diverging rail would be 1" away from the main rail at a point 8" from the frog. So the smaller the number, the sharper the angle. Smaller switches (#4's) tend to limit the size of cars you can use -- they look okay with 40 ft boxcars, but are terrible with 80 ft. passenger cars.Thanks, I was wondering what those switch numbers meant.
Maybe. It depends on the equipment you will be using. I can get away with 9" radius curves, because I operate using traction equipment (trolleys) and the prototype actually had sharper curves. But the cars I put through them have to be in tip top condition. Since my era is 30's and 40's, I don't have to worry about some types of modern equipment whose design would never allow such tight curves.But for industrial areas, tight curves are ok, right?
Once more, consider the advantages of flex track.I plan on using "snap track".
Thankfully a Walthers dealer in Canada has been found, looks like I'm going to be using that catalog quite a bit.Red Oak & Western said:Get a hold of a Walthers catalog to see just how many!
Choice-wise you cerainly do. Not as much competition and competing wholesalers up here in Canada.I guess those of us stateside have it pretty easy.
Thanks, I found them already.You might what to check out George's Trains www.georgestrains.com and Canadian Model Trains www.modeltrains.com. Both specialize in Canadian prototypes and are in Canada.
I see, but how do you know which one is slower, or is it by size? ForRed Oak & Western said:If the slower loco is placed in front, the faster loco will try to push it at the same time it tries to pull the rest of the train. The result is hard on both locos.
I apreciate the DCC insight, but for now and the near future I simply won't be able to afford DCC. Thus DC is my only option.Oh -- here's a good place to mention another benefit of DCC
No I didn't comeback with that one, I still need to find time to fix it, but it's definetally fixible, nothing to worry about. I just panicked a bit, thinking my only controller was broken.Which wire, where. Color is pretty much meaningless in this instance. Depending on which wire and where, its probably both safe and fixable. More info is needed (maybe you provided it later, I just don't recall seeing it.)
I can't give up my stuff! The oval is all I have. I was just thinking about a starter set to add to it, all later additions will be separate pieces. What is a turnout BTW?I know its really really hard to give up what you currently have, but in the long run, I believe you'd be better of purchasing individual components (switches ((turnouts)), crossings, etc.) than trying to make the parts of a set work for you.
Please tell me how to do it, as I have no clue.If you're still not convinced of the benefits of DCC, or really need to delay installing it, and really want two or more DC cabs, ask again about installing block wiring and I'll go into detail on how to do it.
I don't think I'm confused, exept for the wiring and the DC block areas.I hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you more. SO keep asking away until you're comfortable with the answers.
Welcome to my world.PS: It's late and I haven't checked the spelling or grammar in this post.
Start like I did, power the first loop via simple DC, then once you'd gotten enough built up, move into starting the DCC project, right now I only have 2 DCC units out of about 40! AND NO layout to run them on...Russian said:I apreciate the DCC insight, but for now and the near future I simply won't be able to afford DCC. Thus DC is my only option.
Eh, and you're a railfan? lol the switch...Russian said:I can't give up my stuff! The oval is all I have. I was just thinking about a starter set to add to it, all later additions will be separate pieces. What is a turnout BTW?
You need to individually test the locomotives. It's best done with a stop watch (we have a "Dollar Store" here that sells one for $2, it doesn't have to be expensive), but any watch with a sweep second hand will do. Place the loco on a loop of track, the longer the better. Hold the loco in place and set the controller about 1/4 full. Let go of the loco and start timing. Record the time it takes the loco to complete the loop. Stop the loco and repeat the procedure with the controller 1/2 full. Do that for each loco. If one loco completes the loop in 15 seconds, and the other loco takes 30 seconds, they wouldn't make a good pair. But if one takes 15 seconds and the other 17 seconds, they'll work together just fine.I see, but how do you know which one is slower, or is it by size?
The terms "switch" and "turnout" are used synonymously in both prototype and model railroading to refer to the trackage that lets routes diverge. Model railroaders tend to use the term "turnout" to avoid confusion with electrical switches: "The red switch controls the position of the turnout." rather than "This switch controls the switch."What is a turnout BTW?
To do a good job of explaining block wiring, I'll need to know:Please tell me how to do it, as I have no clue.
I see, it's just that it was listed next to a turnout, so I thought it was something different. On the RR I've only heard of them refered to as switches. As for being a railfan I don't know, I know some things abouy the RR and take thousands of photos, I thought that was enough.jbaakko said:Eh, and you're a railfan? lol the switch..
Thaks for the detailed instructions. As long as my watch is HO scale compatible I think I'll be fine, because it has a stopwatch!Red Oak & Western said:You need to individually test the locomotives. It's best done with a stop watch
By cab you mean leading locomotive? I'm going for three right now, but I'm sure if I really wanted to, I could add a forth one right?1) How many cabs (engineers) you really want. Each cab adds cost and complexity .
I've already posted a diagram earlier in this thread (post #17). Exept for adding industry slidings in the middle, that should be my track, for the first while anyway. Now what is the control panel? Is it another power pack kind of an applience?2) Your track diagram. Basically, the layout is separated into "blocks" (a term taken from the prototype to define a section of track where a train has the "right" to operate). Wiring from each block is run to a "control panel" where switches (electrical) are used to select which controller supplies power to the block.
Cab in the way of Modelrailroading terms refers to the individual DCC controllers, that allow humans (the engineer) control multiple sets of units on the layout, DCC consists of a "Cab" (throttle, controller), the track (to supply power @ 12V), the Decoder (to allow the DCC system to contol multiple units in one power block separatly, OR togeather), and command station (sometimes coupled in with a booster to "up" the signal)...Russian said:By cab you mean leading locomotive? I'm going for three right now, but I'm sure if I really wanted to, I could add a forth one right?
All this DCC talk is making my head spin. Please drop the C and lets talk DC wiring setup!jbaakko said:Cab in the way of Modelrailroading terms refers to the individual DCC controllers, that allow humans (the engineer) control multiple sets of units on the layout, DCC consists of a "Cab" (throttle, controller), the track (to supply power @ 12V), the Decoder (to allow the DCC system to contol multiple units in one power block separatly, OR togeather), and command station (sometimes coupled in with a booster to "up" the signal)...
FAQ's from Digitrax...
http://www.digitrax.com/faqs.php
I can't find the thread, but I did my sheet that came with the train set. (no word on locomotive and car brands though, as it's an overly generic train set)Locomotives -- very little except to keep the wheels, differentials, and gear sets clean. Track -- I use a chemical cleaner -- I don't use abrasive cleaners (there's a track maintenance thread here somewhere).
Track should be kept clean for proper electrical pick-up. Use either a liquid or an eraser-type cleaner, available at almost all hobby shops. Locomotive wheels should be cleaned by spinning them on track wetted with cleaner, then dried with a pipe cleaner. Locomotives must be properly lubricated. Sparingly use a fine grade oil that is plastic-compatible. On a bust RR, oil once every 6 to 8 weeks. (I haven't done any of that in 5 years, then again it hadn't run much either).
A "cab" (in DCC or DC) is "an engineer's position", derived for the fact that the engineer sits in the "cab" of the locomotive. It really means a power pack, or throttle, or controller, or whatever you want to call the device that sends the voltage to the tracks to make the locomotive (or locomotives in a consist) go.By cab you mean leading locomotive?
Wrong (unless you mean starting with four). Each cab must be physically wired into the control panel. Adding a cab after the control panel has been built means a lot of work -- changing all the block control switches, additional wiring for the new cab, re-labeling everything, etc.I'm going for three right now, but I'm sure if I really wanted to, I could add a forth one right?
Here's a good link on the subject of control panels:Now what is the control panel? Is it another power pack kind of an applience?
I went back and checked out the pictures in post 10. That power pack would be used as one cab. You would need another power pack for each additional cab. Just as an example, see http://www.modelrectifier.com/products/trainSound/product.asp?ID=1295&Subcategory=Tech 4 . An alternative to multiple power packs is a power supply and individual throttles or controllers (both terms refer to the same device). The controllers get the full 12 VDC from the power supply and they provide the means of varying the output voltage and switching the output polarity. Controllers tend to be small so that they can be held in your hand as you watch your train. Both power packs and throttles can have some sophisticated features (pulse power, etc.), but that's beyond this discussion.DC standard powerback, as I have posted earlier (post #10), and what are controllers?
I think I'll redo my track plan before getting into that kind of wiring. Sure sounds complex. The manual switches don't have to be connected though, right?Red Oak & Western said:How's that for confusing!
I don't get it, so its one controller, is it still controlling one train, or can I have 5 trains? Would that be all I need then?see http://www.modelrectifier.com/products/trainSound/product.asp?ID=1295&Subcategory=Tech%204 . An alternative to multiple power packs is a power supply and individual throttles or controllers (both terms refer to the same device).
Looking forward to that. Guess I'll be stocking up on turnouts.Red Oak & Western said:I'm off tomorrow, so, if no one else jumps in, I'll create a (very) basic diagram of block wiring with cab control. This is one case where a picture really is worth a thousand words. Especially when it comes to switches, switches, or switches.
Since posting, I've found a 40' boxcar converter kitI'm not sure which track-cleaning car you're referring to, but I think the answer to your first question (would that be all the maintenance I'll ever need to do?) would pretty much be yes, with the occasional check to make sure the track gauge hasn't changed (due to warpage, humidity changed, old age, etc.).
Russian said:I'm curently using RTS 7.0 to figure out my track and have already ran into some "problems".
Would a manutal non-electrically controlled switch for Atlas be called a "Snap-switch" or a Turnout?
I see, what I notice is the snap switch has some appliences on the side, even though it says its manual: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/150-861grande man said:I'm thinking the snap switch is meant to fit into a trainset 18" radius curve (curved diverging route) and the customline turnout is a more prototypical straight diverging route. I'd go with the customline turnout. They look much better.
Thank you for your insight. Are you suggesting then that the turnout doesn't normally have the piece you use to throw the switch? So I would need to buy those separately? (in case I'm lacking proper terminology, I'm talking about this yellow thing: http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=26538)HaggisKennedy said:Custom turnouts only have the sliding tie piece with a hole on the end, to attach a manual throw, or a Tortoise motor (or other motor).