Circus Train Thread


enjineerbill

Avid People Watcher
Once in a while, I see a post inquiring about Circus Trains. This thread is for anyone who has an interest in any type of show trains. Please feel free to post pics, questions, comments or information regarding these types of trains.

I myself, have an interest in any type of "special" trains, specifically circus. So I will post pics I have relating to that subject. And try to share a little info along the way. I plan to post pics of the entire progress of all types of equipment, but not in any particular order. And due to time restraints, unless asked, won't be doing a "how to" as in previous threads of mine. I hope you use this thread if you share a casual or intense(me) interest in this type of equipment. The railroads hated the show trains, but they were a way of life for americans for many years.

After procrastinating (and building the 25 car American Freedom Train), I have finally started to work on my Ringling Train. As I like varying types of the equipment they used, This will not be a proto-train perse', yet more of a blend of equipment that could have been a possibilty.


I'm starting with the 25 ex-U.S. hospital cars that the show aquired after WWII. These cars were delivered to Ringling in 1947 and in the first season of use, were painted red. Thereafter, they were aluminum with various types of lettering until their last use in 1970-1971. The cars had many different configurations, animal(stock), passenger(performers and personel), generator(2), and agood number became gutted and were used as "tunnel" cars(ends removed and hollow) in which wagons were loaded inside them. And there was, of course, the advertising car. A few of the cars survive today in private ownership. The last advertising car used by Ringling is here in Baraboo at the Circus World Museum and they also have a performers' car in their collection as well.

These prototype pictures are from the "Fallen Flags" website, with credit to the original poster.

Here are some of the cars taken in the mid-60's;

rbc-pitt-d.png


rbc-pitt-b.png


My cars are being built from the Walthers' kits last offered in 1983. Prior to that they were a regular item for years in their catalog.

The kits are wood, metal and cardstock. Lot of work goes into each and these pics are the result of about 4 eight hour days of work. None of the roof detail is done or handrail hardware either, still to come.

The first two cars, are a passenger(closest) and an animal car;

Ringling_1.png


Ringling_2.png


The animal car has a few variations for the critters. Most notable are the vents in the windows for protecting the cargo and underneath, behind the leading trucks, are the racks for the ramps used to load/unload the stock;

Ringling_3.png


Well that's all for today, When you see the thread pop-up it's cause I'm up to something, I hope you enjoy. BTW, for those who may be members, I am Circus Model Builder #3022 and we always welcome new members!!

May all your days,
Be Circus Days!!

Johnny
 
Both cars look great, Johnny. I've often wondered why Walther's seemed to lose complete interest in circus train modeling since they used have 10 or 15 pages of models in the older catalogs. I know Walthers and Ringling Brother's had a snit over trademark infringement and I don't know if that was when the change took place of when it was when Bruce Walthers, who I know was a big circus train fan, turned over day-to-day control to the next generation?
 
Johnny, this car is sitting in Star North Carolina. It's at the Aberdeen, Carolina & Westerns headquarters. I took this shot this summer when I took a trip out there. It's seen better days :(

100_1589.jpg
 
When I worked for Zee Medical First Aid & Safety in the 80's I use to service all of their cars & winter quarters in Venice, Fl. They would bring in the Blue, Red & Yellow Circus train for service. Those cars were in bad shape then. Rusted out & falling apart. The men & women that would patch them up for the spring & summer shows worked day & nite to get them back in shape.
Someday on another thread I'll tell ya about an 8 year contract building stuff for Ringling when Mattel owned them in the 70's.

Larry
 
Nice work Johnny! Question:

Can you identify the newer cars?
http://rostershots.modelrailroadtips.com/thumbnails.php?album=search&search=rbbx

Either the blue, or the red train pictured in the link above? I'd like to build a shortened train to run once & a while.

Hi Josh,

The train in the link is the Blue unit. The usual way to tell is by the "globe" herald near the ends of the cars. However, sometimes during equipment failure, or other circumstances, the cars will co-mingle, although that is very, very rare. The hardes cars to do for this train would be the animal cars. They are ex-UP baggage cars and no one makes them. A kitbashers' dream for sure. Somewhere buried in a pile of my stuff, I have 2 of those supply cars(containers on the flats) that I did for giggles and *****. If I run across them, you can be sure I'll post 'em. Hope that answers what you're looking for. And if I can in any way help in your future indevour, all you have to do is ask!

Johnny
 
Both cars look great, Johnny. I've often wondered why Walther's seemed to lose complete interest in circus train modeling since they used have 10 or 15 pages of models in the older catalogs. I know Walthers and Ringling Brother's had a snit over trademark infringement and I don't know if that was when the change took place of when it was when Bruce Walthers, who I know was a big circus train fan, turned over day-to-day control to the next generation?

Hi Jim,

Don't hold me to this, but, what I have heard through the grapevine, is that it was mostly on behalf of Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey. They are just as aggressive(if not more) about their trademarks than the Union Pacific. And we all know how that affected model railroaders.

A while back, they even put the Ki-bosh to the "o" scale models of either MTH or K-Line because of the trains they put out lettered for the show. I doo believe the changes came from deep within the Feld organization who, at times, has had some control issues with more than one of their enterprises.

It seems that Walthers' did change quite a bit after Bruces' departure, and I do understand that things change. But I long for the days when someone with my interests could find readily available circus items in both the catalog and the hobby shelves. The cars I posted were also offered in "O" scale as well. I have not seen any, anywhere and I sure would like to get my hands on a few....

Johnny
 
Johnny, this car is sitting in Star North Carolina. It's at the Aberdeen, Carolina & Westerns headquarters. I took this shot this summer when I took a trip out there. It's seen better days :(

Hi Jerome,

Thanks for sharing the photo! Yep, they change equipment more often that they care to now. Mostly because of pressure from the railroads who handle the trains. As I mentioned, the railroads really disliked handling them for a multitude of reasons, one of which was the shows' in-abilty to properly maintain the equipment. Especially in the early days. And that bad rap followed them into the present day Ringling and Straes' trains.

BTW, is this equipment privately owned or is it in a museum collection of any type?

Thanks again for posting the photo!

Johnny
 
When I worked for Zee Medical First Aid & Safety in the 80's I use to service all of their cars & winter quarters in Venice, Fl. They would bring in the Blue, Red & Yellow Circus train for service. Those cars were in bad shape then. Rusted out & falling apart. The men & women that would patch them up for the spring & summer shows worked day & nite to get them back in shape.
Someday on another thread I'll tell ya about an 8 year contract building stuff for Ringling when Mattel owned them in the 70's.

Larry

Hi Larry,

I would love for you to share your stories about being a part of reservicing the train. Like I just replied to Jerome, maintanance was a big issue for the shows. The cars saw(see) lots of hard service, and of course travel great distances before a chance to properly service them can be had. I would especially like to hear about your experiences with the Mattel ownership. That seemed to be quite the fiasco as I remember! And of course any stories or pics of the Venice, FL. winterquarters are most welcome.

Somewhere, in a book, I have pictures of older, wooden, show equipment being burned to the ground when the winterquarters were still in Sarasota, Fl. A lot of elegant coaches with Mahogony and Brass outfittings.....

Thanks Larry!

Johnny
 
Johnny, what do you think would be the best starting spot for most of the cars? Are they all different, or close enough to the same?

The flats w/ containers, UMLER says outside length of 94', though I'm assuming that's coupler face to coupler face which would make it an 89' car. Two ribbed 40' containers, and some styrene should suffice, with a little under body detailing.

In any case, I'm with you, I love special trains. Business trains (BNSF & UP on my layout), I'd like some of the UP rail test units, AAR cars, Private cars, ect. As I said before I'd love to have a RBBX train on my layout to go along with the other ones...
 
Johnny, I know there was a lawsuit threat by Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Baily because I remember that (I think) the 1981 catalog had the circus cars but with the name of a fictitious circus. There was a statement to the effect that a "certain circus company" had threatened a lawsuit if Walthers used their name again. I think we can pretty much guess which company that was. The circus cars and circus equipment only lasted a few years after that and I think Bruce's departure from the scene plus the lawsuit issue killed off Walthers interest in what I'm sure were never big selling models.

I have never fathomed why a company struggling to survive like RB/B&B would object free publicity wherever they could get it. I know about trademark issues but I'm pretty sure a simple license agreement could have handled it. :confused:
 
Johnny, I believe the AC&W owns the car. I called a friend today, it's still there in their deadline.

Johnny, this car is sitting in Star North Carolina. It's at the Aberdeen, Carolina & Westerns headquarters. I took this shot this summer when I took a trip out there. It's seen better days :(

Hi Jerome,

Thanks for sharing the photo! Yep, they change equipment more often that they care to now. Mostly because of pressure from the railroads who handle the trains. As I mentioned, the railroads really disliked handling them for a multitude of reasons, one of which was the shows' in-abilty to properly maintain the equipment. Especially in the early days. And that bad rap followed them into the present day Ringling and Straes' trains.

BTW, is this equipment privately owned or is it in a museum collection of any type?

Thanks again for posting the photo!

Johnny
 
Johnny, what do you think would be the best starting spot for most of the cars? Are they all different, or close enough to the same?

The flats w/ containers, UMLER says outside length of 94', though I'm assuming that's coupler face to coupler face which would make it an 89' car. Two ribbed 40' containers, and some styrene should suffice, with a little under body detailing.....

Hi Josh,

Most of the performers/crew cars are pretty similar. The only difference being that the interiors depended on status with the show(some stars get half a car). If your going to do the generator/animal cars they will need some cosmetic modifications and having seen the work you can do it should be no problem.

You are correct about the flat, they are indeed 89' w/ 2 40' containers. The containers are arranged on the deck so that the ends of the containers are flush with ends of the cars and the doors face the center of the car. Using strip styrene, create an enclosure between the them and fabricate walk-in doors on both sides to access them. On the car I was in, the container doors were removed as access couldn't be gained because of the enclosure. Don't forget to your ltppl a drop step to get uo in the center of the car. As for the underframe it was left pretty much intact with maybe a cabinet or two for power cords, etc..,

As for a starting spot, Rivarossi/Con-Cor make nice SS cars for the performer cars, may have dig a little deeper(pockets) for corrigated side cars if you do them.

Johnny
 
Johnny, I know there was a lawsuit threat by Ringling Brothers/Barnum and Baily because I remember that (I think) the 1981 catalog had the circus cars but with the name of a fictitious circus. There was a statement to the effect that a "certain circus company" had threatened a lawsuit if Walthers used their name again. I think we can pretty much guess which company that was. The circus cars and circus equipment only lasted a few years after that and I think Bruce's departure from the scene plus the lawsuit issue killed off Walthers interest in what I'm sure were never big selling models.

I have never fathomed why a company struggling to survive like RB/B&B would object free publicity wherever they could get it. I know about trademark issues but I'm pretty sure a simple license agreement could have handled it. :confused:

Hi Jim,

Couldn't agree more. The cars ran as a "limited' edition on July of 1983, but that was the last time. And from what I gather, they couldn't move them then either. The cars had generic decals that included words and phrases that one could compile to create circus lettering. Curiously, no matter how you tried, you could not get the full Ringling name out of the decals;).

I suppose that RBBB(in non-family hands since the early 60's) felt there was something to be gained from the greed. And to their defense, There are a lot of folks who like to use "The Greatest Show on Earth" for free advertising. But when it comes to modeling a prototype to display for the enjoyment of others at shows, I see no need for the stingyness. I know I don't get paid to display, wouldn't that be nice??:)

Johnny
 
Hi Josh,

Most of the performers/crew cars are pretty similar. The only difference being that the interiors depended on status with the show(some stars get half a car). If your going to do the generator/animal cars they will need some cosmetic modifications and having seen the work you can do it should be no problem.

You are correct about the flat, they are indeed 89' w/ 2 40' containers. The containers are arranged on the deck so that the ends of the containers are flush with ends of the cars and the doors face the center of the car. Using strip styrene, create an enclosure between the them and fabricate walk-in doors on both sides to access them. On the car I was in, the container doors were removed as access couldn't be gained because of the enclosure. Don't forget to your ltppl a drop step to get uo in the center of the car. As for the underframe it was left pretty much intact with maybe a cabinet or two for power cords, etc..,

As for a starting spot, Rivarossi/Con-Cor make nice SS cars for the performer cars, may have dig a little deeper(pockets) for corrigated side cars if you do them.

Johnny

Thanks Johnny, I'll look into them. I've already looked at the Eastern Car Works 85' smooth side car kits, but I cannot find a decent picture of them.

Guess I'll start on the 89' flats.
 
Thanks Johnny, I'll look into them. I've already looked at the Eastern Car Works 85' smooth side car kits, but I cannot find a decent picture of them.

Guess I'll start on the 89' flats.

Hi Josh,

Please feel free to share the process on this thread. My hope for starting the thread was to encourage others to explore an often overlooked part of American Railroads.

You know, I forgot about the Eastern Car Works line of cars. I built one of their sleepers for my AFT train, very nice. Yeh, if you don't mind the few extra $$, they are a great starting point. When I first built my AFT, I thought I would just get by with the Rivarossi sleeper. A freind sent me the ECW kit and I promptly replaced the RR car with it.

Let's see those flats!

Johnny
 



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