C&O Allegeheny Sound


stationmaster said:
What I can understand from the above post is that no matter how much one adjusts the programming of a chip, it boils down to the motor and its reaction to the voltage applied. And that each individual mechanism/drive/motor will have a varied reaction to such.

Is that what I'm reading?

Bob
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That's exactly right Bob. The better the mechanism, which I consider to be the motor and gears, the better the response to such programming. Each mech. is different and each one has to be tweaked to its best response. Sometimes to get that response, a new motor or gear set may be necessary.
 
stationmaster said:
Oddly, that has been a rule since Moses was a pup. Seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Bob
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I can remember back in the 70's, taking armatures and balancing them by removing material from the metal plates that make up every motor. Had to balance them on razor blades stuck in a piece of wood.

Then having to re magnetize the motor to restore magnet strength.

We don't have to do that anymore, thank goodness.
 
We did the same to slot cars. Even removed the windings and re-wound the motors for better conduction. We also had 12v motors running on 36v-48v(for straight line slot car dragsters). Talk about screamers!! Also burnt up a few. A short buzz and a lot of smoke maybe a spark or two.

Champion made a gadget that could measure the balance of an armature to with a few 1000ths of a gram. I've got all of my Dad's tools, I may even have one around here if I look.

Bob
 
Mini-Crossovers

stationmaster said:
....I have a friend that is helping me build a "mini-crossover" for some of my compounds that I plan to install a multi-speaker system. It's been on the back burner for several months. Guess I need to get back on the project, huh?

Bob
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That's interesting...sort of like the big hi-fi guys, where you are directing different frequencies of sound to select speakers designed to handle those frequencies.
 
stationmaster said:
I have (2)Rivarossi 2-8-8-2's that I installed sound in the tender. The Tsunamis sound AWESOME!!! And that is an understatement. Others cannot believe to "bottom end"(bass). I was quite taken aback myself. I used my Dremel saw and "cut" slots into the bottom of the tenders and used a "long throw" speaker to enhance the "bass" sound also. I think drilling holes would produce the same effect. I bought the speakers at a trains show and have no idea who manufactured them. In fact, they sat in a drawer in the workbench for a couple of years before I installed them.
Bob
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Interesting Bob. To clarify you are talking of a single oval speaker, correct?

I have 4 Proto Heritage 2-8-8-2 locos that I'm going to run some experiments on. Three of them have sound installed, but they all have an oval speaker facing up thru the coal load. I think they are all Soundtraxx decoders, but not the newest Tsunami. I will have to check exactly what they are and revise this posting accordingly. I'll take some photos.

I've got some Railmaster Hobby speakers in the mail and I want to try in a few of these. I have in mind a single oval speaker like you mention verses the dual round installations of many factory units. With this single 8 ohm speaker I would not violate the Soundtraxx/Tsunami restrictions of 8 or more ohms.
I also find interesting their 'prepackaged' oval bass speaker in a 'bass reflex' form.

Edited with photos:
Here are 3 of those 2-8-8-2 decoder installations (regrettably when I checked my photos I had a number of them out of focus due to not selecting Macro). Two of the decoders have a purple-like cover and one has a white cover. Any idea of what model decoder this indicates??
 
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Vandy Tender Sound Installation

beiland said:
I've got some Railmaster Hobby speakers in the mail and I want to try in a few of these. I have in mind a single oval speaker like you mention verses the dual round installations of many factory units. With this single 8 ohm speaker I would not violate the Soundtraxx/Tsunami restrictions of 8 or more ohms.
I also find interesting their 'prepackaged' oval bass speaker in a 'bass reflex' form.
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I'm hoping these oval 'base reflex speakers' from Railmasters work out as an alternative to dual round speaker installations. Why? Because I have in mind a nice, relatively easy installation in some of those great C&O CV16 and CV12 Vanderbilt tenders from Backmann. I have two of their 4-8-2 heavy mountains I need to put sound and dcc into, and I have a very special 'dream scheme' loco I want to create for the C&O....a 2-8-8-2 C&O steamer with a vandy tender. ;)
 
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beiland said:
Interesting Bob. To clarify you are talking of a single oval speaker, correct?

I have 4 Proto Heritage 2-8-8-2 locos that I'm going to run some experiments on. Three of them have sound installed, but they all have an oval speaker facing up thru the coal load. I think they are all Soundtraxx decoders, but not the newest Tsunami. I will have to check exactly what they are and revise this posting accordingly. I'll take some photos.

I've got some Railmaster Hobby speakers in the mail and I want to try in a few of these. I have in mind a single oval speaker like you mention verses the dual round installations of many factory units. With this single 8 ohm speaker I would not violate the Soundtraxx/Tsunami restrictions of 8 or more ohms.
I also find interesting their 'prepackaged' oval bass speaker in a 'bass reflex' form.
Click to expand...

Actually, he's doing the work. I'm just telling him what I want and expect.

Update: we are on prototype #6. Project is not going well.

Bob
 
Crossovers??

Hi Bob,
Can I assume you referenced the wrong quote above? Did you mean to refer to the discussion about 'crossovers' ?
 
Yes, I guess I didn't erase enough.

It is a dual speaker system that has the speakers located in the tender. One speaker is a down firing subwoofer while the second carries the rest of the dynamics. We keep, well, I keep turning the decoders into toast.

Bob
 
stationmaster said:
.
It is a dual speaker system that has the speakers located in the tender. One speaker is a down firing subwoofer while the second carries the rest of the dynamics. We keep, well, I keep turning the decoders into toast.

Bob
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Ouch. that hurts :eek:

Might it make difference if you were utilizing QSI decoders? Over in this discussion of 'two speakers on one decoder'. I've found that the QSI decoders seem to be much more tolerant of speaker impedance:
"It appears as though the QSI decoders can handle all three situations of 4, 8, or 16 ohms (2/parallel, 1 single, 2/series)

On the other hand I recall this paper document handed out with the Tsunami TSU-1000 decoder system;
Tsunami is designed to operate with speakers whose impedance is 8 ohms or higher. Using a speaker impedance less than 8 ohms may result in erratic operation or even component failure"
 
I use Tsunami decoders almost exclusively. I was hoping to get a decoder that was totally programmable, with feature that only a madman(me) could dream up. Like the "screech" sound made by the wheel flanges against the rails. Again, the decoders I "fried" were prototypes.

The fella working with me is my nephew(I'm his favorite uncle) and has a degree in "geekology" from the MIT. He's no dummy, just weird. He is into sound technology as a hobby. He, like me, collects old stereo systems. The idea of a decoder for my trains and our shared hobby seem to go together.

As an aside, I have over 1500w driving the "ambience" in my train room. With (4)old Klipsch La Scala's as the speaker element and a tri-amped power source((3)Crown DC amps with passive cross-overs connected to a harmonic bridge(graphic equalizers/sound board to the rest of you) with an old Sansui 8080db receiver as the slave. The system, with my home-made speakers, has the capacity to screw up your inner ear and make you spew your breakfast..................or lunch..............or supper..........

Hopefully, we'll get this right one of these days. Frying a decoder is dangerous to your trains. I've already had to replace one tender. I gave the terms "meltdown" and "flash-in-the-pan" new meaning.

Bob
 
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Programable Bass Sounds

stationmaster said:
I use Tsunami decoders almost exclusively. I was hoping to get a decoder that was totally programmable, with feature that only a madman(me) could dream up. Bob
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I realize you use mostly Tsunami, and you have quite an extensive sound system in your train room, and that you are experimenting with speaker 'crossovers', so perhaps you can explain something to me? I had printed out this comment from Tony's Trains;
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2009/040809.htm
"I emailed QSI Solutions to see if it is possible to get the high bass motor sounds (that are available in the Revolution) into a custom version 7 upgrade chip firmware. They sent me 104-4v7-37-8, I installed it and it sounds great."

Might this capability to reprogram the decoder to get more bass sounds ultimately preclude having to go to a 'crossover network'? And is that what he is saying he accomplished with this exercise?

Is this reprogram-able capability greater in the future of QSI decoders verses Soundtraxx decoders?
 
beiland said:
I realize you use mostly Tsunami, and you have quite an extensive sound system in your train room, and that you are experimenting with speaker 'crossovers', so perhaps you can explain something to me? I had printed out this comment from Tony's Trains;
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/2009/040809.htm
"I emailed QSI Solutions to see if it is possible to get the high bass motor sounds (that are available in the Revolution) into a custom version 7 upgrade chip firmware. They sent me 104-4v7-37-8, I installed it and it sounds great."

Might this capability to reprogram the decoder to get more bass sounds ultimately preclude having to go to a 'crossover network'? And is that what he is saying he accomplished with this exercise?

Is this reprogram-able capability greater in the future of QSI decoders verses Soundtraxx decoders?
Click to expand...

Question, why would you want to reprogram a chip? If installed in an engine, and the sound is correct, clear and meets your needs, why reprogram the audio on the thing?

I have two engines with QSI decoders, some with Digitrax, and some with Soundtrax. The overall performance of the Soundtrax is better than the other two, especially at slow speeds. To each his own.

Bob
 
Mini-Crossovers for Speakers

stationmaster said:
The Tsunami equalizer is the cat's meow. You wouldn't believe the difference.

Good job on the suggestion, Alan. You hit the nail on the head. Also adding a deeper "basket" speaker, a woofer, if you will, makes a big difference too. Installing the speaker in the tender of steam engines gives you all kinds of room to add multiple speakers, if you wish.

I have a friend that is helping me build a "mini-crossover" for some of my compounds that I plan to install a multi-speaker system. It's been on the back burner for several months. Guess I need to get back on the project, huh?

Bob
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Just reading back thru this older subject thread. Did you ever get those mini-crossovers built and working?
 
Selector said:
I am late to this thread, but I have a now two-year-old Rivarossi Allegheny that originally had the Loksound decoder, and I hated the incorrect chuff and whistle. I finally had a heavy Tsunami installed in it, and couldn't be happier. The engine actually chuffs, and no longer 'chiffs' like the original, and the hooter is very good.
Crandell
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Again, just reading back thru this subject thread and noticed again your description of the sound with Loksound decoders. I posted this referenced video last night on another subject thread:

The C&O Allegheny (what an engine, what a layout, but sound leaves a lot to desire)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgS8KMoKi6I
 
stationmaster said:
....
The fella working with me is my nephew(I'm his favorite uncle) and has a degree in "geekology" from the MIT. He's no dummy, just weird. He is into sound technology as a hobby. He, like me, collects old stereo systems. The idea of a decoder for my trains and our shared hobby seem to go together.
Bob
Click to expand...

Hi there Bob. Guess I should have read further thru my subject thread before asking that very basic question about cross-over experimentation of you again. I see we had quite of bit of additional duscussions following that first posting of yours.

Seeing as how you have considerble interest and experience with speaker acoustics, what might you ask or offer to this posting??
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=290756&postcount=25
...I find his very first sentence problematic. "In order for any speaker to gain, it has to have back pressure". ??
 
Weathered Allegheny 2-6-6-6

We have lived thru a remarkable period of time in the hobby. Just look at the level of detail in our plastic model trains,...unbelievable. In some cases it rivals those really nice (and really expensive) brass models. And with the all-wheel electrical pick-ups, and great little motors and motor controllers, they even run much nicer than the brass locos.

Somtimes it takes a little weathering to really bring out the details in these models (and that is true with the brass ones as well). Case in point, I present a pretty heavily weathered Rivarossi Allegheny I just recently purchased.
View attachment 34396

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View attachment 34399

Its regreattable that this model will likely not be reproduced. It just doesn't get any better.
 
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