Jim when i was a kid I was part of a railroad club back where I grew up. And at that time I was more focused on how big of a consist could i latch up and do. as I got older I became more focused on details. I don't have a lot of room for a layout other then maybe a shelf point to point or switching layout. in Ho (or like the one layout in the MRR that was a 4x8 that could be split in half.) but here is my biggest issue. I have been in N scale and HO. If i was to get back into the hobby as I sold most of my stuff. I would like to model either a logging layout, (Infact the first layout on this thread has been my favorite room size layout.) or a modern shortline. Mostly the Maryland and Delaware, (got to ride in the cab of a CF7 round cab when i was a kid when My dad was hauling grain the conductor asked if i wanted to ride in the cab while they switched out grain cars. Best time I ever had.) and so I really would like to model that short line. But I want to model the bad track. the wobbly and unmaintaned kinky track. But My skills as a modeler are limited mostly because I don't want the layout to look amature. (if that makes since) I am to much of a perfectionist and can get very discouraged when it come to the scenery and foaliage work. I hope I have made sence. plus if I was to do N scale I would not be able to do the track work I would like or at least haven't seen any track work to help me decide. so It really is my own perfectionism that gets in my way.
Building the Pinnacle Creek Mining & Timber Co. RR
- Thread starter HOexplorer
- Start date
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Bushel, Okay, I understand all you've said. I can relate to "when I was kid." I used to watch those big steamers roll into Spokane, WA and never forgot them. However, when I started this hobby a dozen years ago I realized those big steamers weren't possible with my budget or 10'x11' layout room. I though I 'needed' to get as much track as possible on the layout, not really realizing the more track in my space lead to sharper curves. Never had a loco larger that 2-8-0 steamer or an RS-1 in N scale. In HO I had evolved into shortline narrow gauge layouts. I like details too, and HO gave me that opportunity if I could go narrow gauge. I'm happy I gave up 'kid's' dreams and gave this hobby a closer look that fitted what was possible.
I checked out the M&D. Scenery-wise it is simple. From the pics I saw it is perfect for Super Trees. Small trunks and tall trees. Could not be simpler tree-wise. Not like your Georgia Pines. To get rickety track in HO is no problem either.
This is easily done with a pair of normal pliers, grabbing the rail, and twisting. Make sure the twists are the same on each twisted part so your rolling stock makes it through. I tested this and my HO car went through with no problems. I don't recommend this in N scale but I'm betting it could be done with needle nose pliers.
As for perfectionism remember you only have to please yourself. I know that sometimes that is hard for us, but trust me, it can be accomplished. Scenery for the M&D is impossible to get wrong. If anything it maybe too simple and plain from the photos I've seen. Remember my favorite scenery adage: When you think you are finished, add some more! I know the M&D is a shortline and it is possible to build the "short line" in an oval if that is what bothers you. Scenery breaks like rivers or streams make 'lines' possible in an oval. This is done ALL the time in model railroading.
I don't know how old you are, but I would put things like the cab ride as a kid on the back burner for those restful autumn evenings on the front porch and start building. You may discover talents you don't think you have. That is always good. Cheers, Jim
I checked out the M&D. Scenery-wise it is simple. From the pics I saw it is perfect for Super Trees. Small trunks and tall trees. Could not be simpler tree-wise. Not like your Georgia Pines. To get rickety track in HO is no problem either.
This is easily done with a pair of normal pliers, grabbing the rail, and twisting. Make sure the twists are the same on each twisted part so your rolling stock makes it through. I tested this and my HO car went through with no problems. I don't recommend this in N scale but I'm betting it could be done with needle nose pliers.
As for perfectionism remember you only have to please yourself. I know that sometimes that is hard for us, but trust me, it can be accomplished. Scenery for the M&D is impossible to get wrong. If anything it maybe too simple and plain from the photos I've seen. Remember my favorite scenery adage: When you think you are finished, add some more! I know the M&D is a shortline and it is possible to build the "short line" in an oval if that is what bothers you. Scenery breaks like rivers or streams make 'lines' possible in an oval. This is done ALL the time in model railroading.
I don't know how old you are, but I would put things like the cab ride as a kid on the back burner for those restful autumn evenings on the front porch and start building. You may discover talents you don't think you have. That is always good. Cheers, Jim
Yeah Jim the Delmarva pennisula is flat and nothing but fields and trees, Mostly all farm land. as far as big dreams and wanting a Big layout and all, I gave up all that long time ago. I neither have the space or the funds for such a project. But I wanted to keep it simple as far as a layout, the details I do want to have a heavy detailed layout, But not so much a large one. But I also can't decide on scale either, O scale 2 rail has been sitting on the back burner Just for the reason of the level of details. again I am so undecided with things I end up procrastinating and nothing gets done. I like On30 Because it is the Best of both worlds and you can do a lot of scratch building. But Again nothing like a diesel (it's the trucker in me Love all things diesel) I got to finish setting up my 240 gallon aquarium before I can start work on my layout. So it give me time to decide where to put it, what scale, and what Era. thanks for the help and the tip. I guess if I did a layout I have about a 11' wall and can go 18" deep or I have 3 walls I can do with about 14" to work with. So a Logging On30 could work. or a Ho switching Layout could work. If I did the M&D I would only do a few Industries mostly graineries as that is mostly all they service. But I will really have to think as I can't decide and that is my biggest problem.
Here's an HO video that's very realistic, the secret to staying on the tracks I would think, would be slow speeds and loose trucks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDN6FGMH_Yo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDN6FGMH_Yo
Yeah there's several on there, that one I think looks and operates the best, some are so severe they get a bit unrealistic.
Yeah I agree. I think if I could do the rickety track and make it also look as good as the siding on Jim first layout on this thread, that was on the upper section, Mixing that over gorwon siding with the kinky (runnable) track, It make a great branchline. My difficulty is the actual ground turf and all I can never get it to look right. But also I was thinking of laying my own track. and making it as detailed as well. of course I got a lot of planning to do before I get that far ahead.
One of Jim's many talents, is his ability to envisage what a scene will look like when finished, a mind's eye approach, so that the placing of items in the scene becomes second nature. It's like any learned skill, takes practice. You may struggle for a while, but soon enough and without consciously noticing, visualising things will become easier.
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Ha, Ha, Toot, Thanks. I couldn't have said it better myself! I've not a clue on how these layouts come out 'right,' but with practice scenery and layout building is second nature at this point. I've known for quite awhile what this new current layout would look like. Just working on color coordination is the really fun part of this one as trees and other support scenery will be quite absent from this layout. Fun stuff.
Bushel, Toot, has given you some good advice. Between the two of us we would like to see you get going and give this all a try. Jim
I've not a clue on how these layouts come out 'right,' but with practice scenery and layout building is second nature at this point. I've known for quite awhile what this new current layout would look like. Just working on color coordination is the really fun part of this one as trees and other support scenery will be quite absent from this layout. Fun stuff.Bushel, Toot, has given you some good advice. Between the two of us we would like to see you get going and give this all a try. Jim
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HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
No problem Bushel, that's what this thread is all about. Free info.
I thought it was about time to see if my track is going to fit. Jim
I thought it was about time to see if my track is going to fit. Jim
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Lessons learned!???? Back in 2008 I did another 'desert' type layout. I posted this photo below on Trainboard and it was overwhelmingly approved of, except for one fellow who mentioned, "What if there is a hard rain?"
Fair enough. Through the years I've had the opportunity to see many layouts beyond the bunch I done. Since 2008 I've always looked to find answers to 'what if there is a hard rain?' Sometimes I see answers, culverts, small bridges, etc., sometimes not. I've never called anyone out on this, but I've always tried to use these simple modeling devices to make my work more realistic. So, if that curmudgeon is still with us he can see I've learned something.
Here is a cutting out of the roadbed for just such a way to removed heavy rains from removing your track!
This last photo shows some plaster cloth in the cuts and I will probably use simple little wood bridges.
Making your layout as realistic as you can is always a plus. This is a small trick towards that end. Jim
Fair enough. Through the years I've had the opportunity to see many layouts beyond the bunch I done. Since 2008 I've always looked to find answers to 'what if there is a hard rain?' Sometimes I see answers, culverts, small bridges, etc., sometimes not. I've never called anyone out on this, but I've always tried to use these simple modeling devices to make my work more realistic. So, if that curmudgeon is still with us he can see I've learned something.
Here is a cutting out of the roadbed for just such a way to removed heavy rains from removing your track!
This last photo shows some plaster cloth in the cuts and I will probably use simple little wood bridges.
Making your layout as realistic as you can is always a plus. This is a small trick towards that end. Jim
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You could have answered that question Jim, by saying "Then the railroad offers white water rafting trips".
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Toot, Good one. Now why didn't I think of that? Jim
Hey Bushel,
A couple other things to consider-
In scale, N-Scale and below you tend to model scenes, not detail.
In HO and above you model for detail.
That's one rule of thumb I've run across.
Second, for your first layout, just get in there and do it. Make the mistakes because it probably won't be perfect. But you learn. It's the later layouts that get really good.
To paraphrase (I believe) Zig Zigler, "keep doing it wrong until until you get it right." So, if you don't try it, you can't get good. If you do it, it may not be good at first but the next one (or the next 2 feet) will be better.
I never thought I could do this
or this
until I tried.
A couple other things to consider-
In scale, N-Scale and below you tend to model scenes, not detail.
In HO and above you model for detail.
That's one rule of thumb I've run across.
Second, for your first layout, just get in there and do it. Make the mistakes because it probably won't be perfect. But you learn. It's the later layouts that get really good.
To paraphrase (I believe) Zig Zigler, "keep doing it wrong until until you get it right." So, if you don't try it, you can't get good. If you do it, it may not be good at first but the next one (or the next 2 feet) will be better.
I never thought I could do this
or this
until I tried.
Lessons learned!???? Back in 2008 I did another 'desert' type layout. I posted this photo below on Trainboard and it was overwhelmingly approved of, except for one fellow who mentioned, "What if there is a hard rain?"
...
Jim
Based on the scene, where could the water go? There doesn't seem to be any opportunity for culverts, bridges, etc in that area. The tracks just get waterlogged. I would expect the track would have been secured in that landscape in such a way as to minimize track disturbance if at all possible.
Sometimes the terrain just doesn't lend itself to drainage, but the road must be laid anyway.
bingo!! Toot
Actually, in that canyon in that '08 layout Jim, you had a waterfall. I can't imagine you not having somewhere for that to empty away from.
HOexplorer
Well-Known Member
Walt, Good modeling there. As for my canyon area there isn't an area for drainage. I know how to do it now but not then. Here's a photo of the waterfall Toot mentions. It, of course, didn't flow into the canyon! In the photo the canyon is to the right of the waterfall under the pinnacle. OOPS wrong picture. I don't know how to delete this one, but the 'real' picture showing what I mean is the second photo. Jim
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It appears though Jim that there are drainage channels alongside the track to flow any water into the waterfall's river, even though it might not have been obvious from that earlier pic that drew the adverse comment. Bring on the hard rain.
