Bachmann, NCE, Digitrax


MikeL

Member
I'm new to DCC, and using my 4-year old son as an excuse to play....

I'm trying to decide on whether to expand my new Bachmann EZ-Command DCC controller, or buy a new:

* Bachmann Dynamis
* NCE SuperCab
* Digitrax starter system (forget the name)


I've heard good and bad about all options. Right now, we only have a 4 x 8 foot plywood board so our setup is small. We'll need to run non-DCC stuff for my son - Thomas, Shrek, etc - but also DCC stuff for me - not necessarily at the same time. We will have many DCC turnouts - more than the EZ-Command will handle, so that's why I need to decide on the next step.

I know this is a big can of worms, but I'd be grateful for thoughts, suggestions, pros, cons, etc.

Thanks!
 
for a home layout the NCE or a MRC are very simple to use and understand.both cost around the same and can do many of the same tasks. you wont have to keep your manal handy for these systems. after a few hours its all common sence to use them

NCE can be computer interfaced for JMRI DCC reprograming and saving decoder data, MRC has its own computer systen that only works with MRC..this IMO is one of its major downfalls or MRC.

Digitrax seams to be the norm for larger clubs and will have the options for all the bells and whistles but I really dont like how difficult it is to do simple tasks. IMO its like trying to program an old VCR always having to look in the manual to do simple things. Digitraxx will do everthing under the sun but at a price of fully understanding all its difficult steps to get you there.its basicly a system built by comptuer nerds LOL

bachmann never used so cant comment.

If you dont plan to join a club dont plan to expand much more and are on a budget stay with the bachmann

if you want an upgrade the MRC is perfect

want to upgrade a little more from what MRC has? use the NCE

Digitraxx....no thanks

just my .02 from experince with these systems
 
The Dynamis is actually one of the easiest advanced systems to use, with a large screen and many of the commands completely menu driven. It's also expensive. The NCE Power Cab is smaller, easy to use, and a nice step up from the E-Z Command. I don't like MRC systems because they won't read back CV's on a programming track, which makes it a hit and miss affair when you're changing settings. The Zephyr is a solid starter set that's easily expanded. I find mine is easy to use but I do have to refer to the manual for some of the more exotic things I want to do. If you can, try all of them in person and see which is the most intuitive to you. What one person finds easy, another finds hard, and vice versa. With the exception of MRC, I don't think you'd be unhappy with any of the DCC systems out there today.
 
We'll need to run non-DCC stuff for my son - Thomas, Shrek, etc - but also DCC stuff for me - not necessarily at the same time.

Mike,

The Digitrax Zephyr will allow you to run one non-DCC loco at a time. Not sure about Dynamis but NCE and MRC will not allow any DC loco operation.

I'm not too fond of Infra-red systems (like Dynamis). I tried it with Digitrax and was not too happy with it.

You won't have any trouble with understanding and operating Digitrax, and their manuals are easy to follow for some of the seldom used features. The Zephyr is nice for simple, basic operations and is a good way to start, but it really shines when you expand by adding one of their DT400 series hand held throttles.

Jerry
 
First I appreciate the replies so far - the information is very helpful for me as it goes beyond "the manual" and the basic statements on web sites, and even what you get when you call the manufacturers, which I have done with at least Bachmann and NCE,

Second, please keep them coming! I realized I'm not in a great hurry to make a decision so the more info the better (plus, I suspect, a lot of newbies like me are asking the same questions!)

Thank you!
 
I was in a similar situation as you when it came to deciding on which system to get and I settled on the NCE powercab system for a few reasons. I pretty much had it narrowed down to either digitrax or NCE by doing your typical online research so I set out to try and get some first hand experience with the two systems. Luckily for me I have 2 semi LHS, one is a major NCE store, the other a major Digitrax store so I got some time playing with the two which made my decision very easy. I ended up with the NCE system for a few reasons, it was easy to use, felt very comfortable in my hand, is made locally and it fit all my needs in a system that I had determined that I needed. While the Digitrax system has more features the one big draw back IMO is the hand held throttle part is bulky. I had a hard time trying to use it in one hand and ended up having to use both hands while with the NCE system I can do everything with one hand with alot less fumbling around.
 
MikeL: to keep the lid on that "can of worms":D, I believe that if you follow UP2CSX's advice you will choose a system that you will be satisfied with. To add: If you believe that you are or will become a serious modeler, get a system that has the capabilities to do more advanced operations/programming and easily expandable. Heck, I will go ahead and suggest the Digitrax or NCE brands.
 
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I would go with NCE because of the throttle. I have a Zephyr and now need to add another throttle if I want to control more the one train at a time. The reason the the Zephyr throttles is fixed, so if you set a train going to a slow speed then switch to another engine it will jump to that speed. The NCE stores the speeds separately for each engine from what I have learned. The Zephyr has more amperage out of the box than the NCE starter, that is its plus. In the end both will get you were you want to go, but I think the NCE has more advanced features right off the bat.
 
I'm going to wade in here not because I have tons of experience with DCC because I don't, however being as how I own an MRC Prodigy Advance Squared unit, I have seen some misinformation, at least with the Advance 2 (squared), as it does read CV's from the program track, assuming that the decoder supports this feature, as not all do...It is very easy to use, and can easily be upgraded.
 
that is correct Gary. however I think the cheeper MRC express does not read back CVs?I also notice that my MRC A2 will only read back decoders that dont need higher power output to get the info. I need a booster if I want to read back all my sound decoders. Regardless I still love my MRC as it was so simple to use that after 2 mins of it being out of the box I was running trains and not pusing buttons...
 
OK, so a little summary to this point....

1. Actual hands-on is clearly helpful in a way which manuals and descriptions may not be. (Unfortunately, I have only 1 local model railroad store nearby - lots of stuff, very knowledgeable, but hard to get their attention if you're not already an expert...)
2. As happily expected, lots of opinions and differences in position, based on need, personal depth of knowledge and expectations, commitment to local clubs and immersion in this, and local sales/put your hands on the stuff resources

So, having recognized some of this, and, of course, not coming to any conclusions yet (I tend to over-analyze buying a roll of toilet paper), there's now one more brand (MRC) to consider.

And while my current and short-term needs are small, expandability, and just plain depth of features to plain with even if it costs a bit more, I'm definitely learning about things to consider with what I can do now and down the road.

As it happens, I've heard (from an internet-based sales company that I just ordered some more Bachmann track and stuff from) that the Digitrax Zephyr is hard to program some basic stuff, and that the Dynamis IR system is prone to problems, i.e. unit facing the sun wen you set it up, other IR-related issues, NCE is easily upgradeable although you have to send it in. These were just the non-Form comments I've gathered.

I did notice with our EZ-Command that switching between locomotives running on the same setup, that it would take the switched-to engine to near zero speed and that you had to rapidly get to the throttle and make an adjustment to get it moving again - which is a real problem, and don't know if the Dynais would do the same.

I did make calls to Bachmanna nd NCE so far: NCE was pretty helpful and seemed much more "into it" when it came to DCC. The guy at Bachmann was very nice, trying to be helpful, but seemed new to the whole thing and not too knowledgeable. Just my impressions...

Let the conversation continue!
 
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...Digitrax seams to be the norm for larger clubs and will have the options for all the bells and whistles but I really dont like how difficult it is to do simple tasks...

I would be interested in knowing what simple tasks you find difficult to do with Digitrax. I often go days or even weeks without even turning my system on; however, when I do get a chance to run trains I don't have any trouble running the trains, setting up and breaking down consists, and programming, and after the first couple of days that I had the system I have never had to refer to the manual for any of the basic operations.
 
I would go with NCE because of the throttle. I have a Zephyr and now need to add another throttle if I want to control more the one train at a time. The reason the the Zephyr throttles is fixed, so if you set a train going to a slow speed then switch to another engine it will jump to that speed...

When switching trains, you press "LOCO," enter the new address, and then press "LOCO" again. Between the two presses of "LOCO," before or after or even during entering the new address, you can adjust the throttle to approximately match the speed(and also match the direction if different) of the train you are switching to minimize any jump in speed.
 
As both Trent and Gary said, the MRC Advanced Squared has solved some of the problems of not reading back CV's from a programming track, although there's no doubt that MRC has the most difficult time reading back CV's from some sound decoders without a booster. However, the Advanced Squared is a quite a leap in price beyond the basic MRC, Digitrax, and NCE starter sets. Since I think we're sticking to entry level type sets, the Advanced Squared is hard to justify. OTOH, I've never had a problem reading back a CV on my Digitrax Zephyr and never heard of a problem from the guys that use the NCE Powercab. Reading back CV's may sound like mumbo-jumbo right now but it's really vital once you get up and running. You can program a change in a speed setting, for example, and have the CV read back to confirm that the setting took. If you don't get a read back, you have to put the engine back on the main to see if the setting worked. Even then, you're not sure if the setting didn't take or you just entered the wrong setting. Believe me, this will get old really fast.

The Dynamis really needs the Dynamis Pro to be able to have all the functions of the basic Digitrax and NCE sets, which takes it way above the entry level price point. The infrared remotes use a bidirectional signal, which makes it fairly reliable even in brght light, but the lack of ability to read CV's on a programming track for the standard Dynamis puts it out of the running for me, even if the price point was lower.

This really leaves us with the NEC Power Cab and the Digitrax Zephyr in the running for entry level systems that will do most of the things that are really important. Both are easily expandable, have radio wireless throttles available, can interface with a computer to allow remote programming of CV's, and will program and readback CV's on a programming track. The NCE uses the contoller as a handheld with the wires leading back to the transformer. The Zephyr has a more traditional powerpack arrangement, with power being supplied by a wall wart. It also has two Jump ports, which allow good quality DC power packs to be used as additional throttles, so you don't lose your investment if you already have some decent DC powerpacks. The Loconet buffer is unique and allows easier computer control than the NCE models.

The NCE Powercab supplies 1.7 amps. The Digitrax Zephyr supplies 2.5 amps. For most home layouts, you'll never need the additional power but you will notice the difference if you start adding stationary decoders or run more than two or three sound equipped locomotives. Both have boosters at reasonable prices that will add all the power you'll ever need.

The front runners are both great systems but with quite different form factors. I like just setting the trains in motion and not having to find a place to set down the controller. Others like to have the handheld controller because they like the immediate access to the controls without having to walk back to the control station. I strongly recommend that you try both systems in person before deciding what to buy. You may really like one and hate the other but you won't know without some hands on experience. Don't be overly swayed by any of our experiences, since some of us have developed a love for a particular system second only to our wives and kids, and you know how things go if you say something bad about them. :) Either one will do what you need to run a nice DCC layout but it's really no different than buying a car without a test drive. Nothing replaces hands on experience.
 
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well I can give you some info in real time on the MRC advanced 2

after the 2 wires are hooked to the tracks and you plug in the unit you ready to run. you simply pres the "Loco" button and enter the engines decoder number then press enter... thats it! say your decoder /loco number is 1000 the screen will now display that number and show its direction/speed..you now have control of that loco and can run it.

lets say you have loco #1000 running circles around the mainline but you want to bring out your loco #0050 thats used for switching. you simply press "loco" enter the number0-0-5-0 and press enter. you now have control of #50 and no change was made to #1000.

#1000 will continue to run at the speed you left it at and now you can switch with #50

ok now you parked #50 in a siding and want to go back to #1000 thats still doing laps. all you have to do is press the recall button and #1000 will be displayed on the screen showing its speed,direction etc... you now have control of number #1000

lets take a step further. # 50 is parked #1000 is doing laps and your new loco that you just bought is placed on the layout. the new loco is default at address #0003. press "loco" -0003 -enter and now you have this loco in your memory. Press the recall button to shift through all 3 loco numbers...its that simple and all the locos can be running at diffrent speeds and none get upset if you change to a diffrent loco.

Programing the loco is as simple as pressing the numbers on the number pad or the enter button thats all you need to do when in the program screen. plane and simple and no extra buttons to confuse the steps.

the hardest thing to do with this MRC system is to add a consists for running 2 or more locos with diffrent addreses. this is a little tricky for most systems however it is no where near as complacated as other mfg such as Digitrax has made it. and to be honest I just like to run 2 engines with the same decoder address and leave it as that.

I use digitrax at the clubs I belong to and I can not stand how difficult they are to do simple tasks. I think it has more to do that the screen gives you no usefull info to help you along the way. I also think the 100+ page manuals are hard to follow. If I recall the MRC book is about 20 pages or so and most of it can explain the task in a few lines.
again this is just my opinion on these systems and I know others may/will have higher regards to Digitrax.. its just not for me!!!
 
After another great and very helpful round of comments, some more thoughts/observations:

1. I'm on many different forums - flying, scuba diving, salt water fish, Linux, etc. My initial experience with this forum is the best one so far - everyone has good info and strong opinions BUT they are expressed cordially and with respect for others - as UP2SCX said, some of these units are loved only second to wife and kids... respect in a forum is rare and this one tops all I've seen

2. So far, I'm hearing many good options and good discussion around the possible choices. I suspect that once I make a choice, I'll still feel like I'll have missed something with all the experience being provided here...

3. In my case, while looking for a starter set, so to speak, mainly due to the 4 x 8 space currently for a setup, I would expect that we'll have more space sometime soon to use for this, and the growth is important - it may cause me to buy above the level of current need, just to save the time and trouble of upgrading.

4. I've got to go spend some time at the local store and get some hands-on time with them. Hopefully, this weekend....
 
I would be interested in knowing what simple tasks you find difficult to do with Digitrax. I often go days or even weeks without even turning my system on; however, when I do get a chance to run trains I don't have any trouble running the trains, setting up and breaking down consists, and programming, and after the first couple of days that I had the system I have never had to refer to the manual for any of the basic operations.


Hi Robert

the things that I seam to trouble me are adjusting CV settings. more of getting to the correct screen to adjust the settings. I also find it difficult to pick up a loco on the system. some times its asking for ad2 or ad4. where all I want is to type in my loco and adjust its cvs. I also feel that there are too many buttons to press to adjust the cvs. it seams for every cv setting you have to press all these extra buttons. for someone that has used MRC and NCE the extra steps with digitraxx seams un needed IMO.. I also have had more issues on Digitrax layouts where some decoders will not take commands once running. this could be the clubs wireing but the same issues always come up on digitraxx layouts where I never have these issues happen on layouts with other DCC mfg.Im Not bashing digitrax at all as I do think they have some realy cool options...I openly confess Im not very good with digitraxx and I know part of my issues is I already a bad taste in my mouth with it.

thanks for asking:)

Trent
 
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Trent, I don't know about other models of Digitrax, but to program a consist on the Chief with a DTS400 throttle is so simple an 8 y.o. could do it. Enter one address on the right control and one address on the left; click Mu'd and select yes. That's it! The right hand knob controls the consist and the left hand knob becomes open for another loco.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by Digitrax requiring extra steps: enter loco address you want to program; hit program; select CV number: enter value; exit.
 
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If I can add to what Jim said about hand held vs stationary controlers.... I like a hand held unit as I can get to all the switches when running my train. this is nice as I do alot of switching and its nice to stand in front of the loco shunting cars. makes you fell like a crew member LOL. a stationary limits you to control the train from one part of the layout. this works for some but not all. on a 4x8 its not a big deal but for a 15x10 it might get to be a PITA to run back and forth. your call....

Trent


Trent
 
Trent, I don't know about other models of Digitrax, but to program a consist on the Chief with a DTS400 throttle is so simple an 8 y.o. could do it. the consist.

I must be 7yo:D

J/K

like I said I think I have a bad taste in my mouth over the negitive experince with it. I have red the manuals to try and walk trough the steps and it always seams to mess something up for me. I know the system works, its just not my cup of tea.

Trent
 



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