Atlas Big Layout Book, HO 35, Berkshire Valley Route


B

BNTorsney

Member
This Atlas "Birkshire Vally Route" layout is constructed with one "reverse" track. One of the improvements I was considering is a 2nd reverse track on the opposite side of the layout.
I've attached four views of my proposed 2nd reverse track location; I don't know if it's plausible and would value anyone's opinion.
Photo 1 is looking East, Photo 2 the West view; Photo 3 shows the proposed
Atlas 0887 bridge from the other size of the layout; in the foreground is the original reverse track. Photo 4 shows the East view again; in the back you can see the bridge, in the front where my finger is pointing, is where I propose to install the #4 Left turnout, which will connect to #4 Right on the other side of the 0887 bridge.
The only thing I'm not clear on, is how to start the "UP" grade from the #4
Left turn-out, which will be on an original downgrade in the layout.
 
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According to Atlas RR, HO division, Good to Go!

Bruce,
That is a 2.25% grade which is good. Your under 2.6% which is excellent.

-----Original Message-----
To: Ted Reimlinger
Subject: Re: #35 Berkshire valley route

Ted,
The turnout is approximately 1/2 higher than the bridge because of the
grade
of the layout. The climb would be 2.5 inches in 4.5 feet.
I might be able to move the switch further away from the bridge, which
would
increase the length and decrease the difference in height. Thanks, Bruce




- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Reimlinger" <treimlinger@atlasrr.com>

Bruce, what is the track distance in feet, from the #4 sw. to the
bridge. Assuming that the Height is of the bridge pier is 3", you will
need 8' of track to elevate to the bridge pier. This gives you a 2.6%
grade, which I believe is max. What ever the height, it is better to
elavate just after the #4 sw.
 
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1/2 of New Track Down, Problem Surfaces

Photo 1, I have modified the "bridge" half track of the new reverse track section. I originally planned to use a RIGHT turn-out at this location; however, as you can see in the photo, the LEFT one gave me the correct angle for the straight track crossing the bridge. Now the normal "spur" will become the main line and vice-versa.
In the third photo you can see my problem, I can't hang a Tortoise switch machine at this location because it will block the lower track. I will use a Atlas solenoid at this location and a Tortoise at the other turn-out. This will give me the circuity to drive the LEDs and power the turn-out frogs. The challenge is how to drive the solenoid at the bridge end, with its momentary AC voltage need, with the voltages and circuity available at the Tortoise.
 
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I'm completely lost looking at your pictures. Can you try drawing some arrows to show the switches you're concerned about? All I see is the one switch on the outside track before it heads up to the bridge.
 
No Switches YET

UP2CSX said:
I'm completely lost looking at your pictures. Can you try drawing some arrows to show the switches you're concerned about? All I see is the one switch on the outside track before it heads up to the bridge.
Click to expand...
There are no switches installed yet to draw arrows to. The problem is how to activate an Atlas solenoid, with the DP/DT switch and voltages available at the Tortoise.
Many year ago when I studied electronics as a hobby, I remember a circuit called a "one-shot multi-vibrator." I need some electronic circuit that will supply a 16 VAC pulse, when triggered by a change in the DP/DT switch at the Tortoise.
I was hoping a retired electronic engineer, who is now into model railroading, would reply with that circuit information.
There are several different options for mounting the Tortoise, unfortunately none of them will work.
I haven't given up yet, but should nothing change, I would just use two solenoids for this new reverse track and have a different switch at the control panel.
 
Photo of Problem

BNTorsney said:
There are no switches installed yet to draw arrows to. The problem is how to activate an Atlas solenoid, with the DP/DT switch and voltages available at the Tortoise.
Many year ago when I studied electronics as a hobby, I remember a circuit called a "one-shot multi-vibrator." I need some electronic circuit that will supply a 16 VAC pulse, when triggered by a change in the DP/DT switch at the Tortoise.
I was hoping a retired electronic engineer, who is now into model railroading, would reply with that circuit information.
There are several different options for mounting the Tortoise, unfortunately none of them will work.
I haven't given up yet, but should nothing change, I would just use two solenoids for this new reverse track and have a different switch at the control panel.
Click to expand...

This photo should be a little more informative than arrows. Above with the track bumper is where the bridge will connect, below is the entrance to the rail-yard.
 
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Progress on 2nd Reverse Track

Yesterday I realized that the bridge had to stick out a little further from the WEST main line; my new F45 Athearn Genesis locomotive had a clearance problem.
I cut a piece of plywood the correct size, glued and nailed it into position, with cut pieces of a paint stick supporting the seams underneath.
At the other end of the new track section, I installed the LEFT #4 turn-out.
Atlas customer service had told me the grade was good, with a 2 1/2 inch climb over 4 1/2 feet. I was able to install the second turn-out a little further back. After rechecking my measurements, I found the climb was actually 2 3/8 inches over 6 feet.
With the higher and shorter climb, I toyed with installing a siding for a "helper" engine. With the much less severe climb that will not be necessary. When I find out what the new grade is, I will post it.
 
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most bridges have a straight section to reduce the cars overhang entering the bridge. its a common issue on smaller layouts so glad you figured it out. I had simmilar issues on my bridge.

Trent
 
BN, the people at Atlas either don't understand grades or think steep grades are OK. The original grade is close to 5% and your revised grade is still 4%. That's a very steep grade for a mainline railroad. Is it possible for you post a scale drawing of the layout? Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time following where your track is going and understanding your switch problem.
 
UP2CSX said:
BN, the people at Atlas either don't understand grades or think steep grades are OK. The original grade is close to 5% and your revised grade is still 4%. That's a very steep grade for a mainline railroad. Is it possible for you post a scale drawing of the layout? Maybe it's just me but I'm having a hard time following where your track is going and understanding your switch problem.
Click to expand...
Nothing would surprise me, if you have the math formula to caculate "grades," kindly post it. The attached photo of the layout is all that I have.
 
Work Continues

Having built this layout years ago, combined with being kept in a dry central air-conditioned home dried out the wood. After marking and cutting for the new reverse section of track, my concern was the the wood would split when I start to lift it. I soaked two of the biggest sponges I had and set them on the area of the layout where the bend would start. After about three hours the wood had absorbed enough moisture to make the bending of the plywood easy. I have a little more work to do on the pillars that support the bridges; when that's done I will lay the roadbed and nail down the track.
 
BN, the formula for calculating grades is straightforward. It's Gradient(%) = Rise / Run, so you need 100" of run to have a 1% grade for a 1" rise. This works in any scale.

That's a huge amount of track in a relatively small area. If scenery is not a major factor, I guess that's OK but you won't have room for much more than track. Also, that track being held down by push pins is really close to the edge of the layout. That will be the track that your best and most expensive engine decides to take dive from. :)
 
Realistic Operation

Thanks for the formula, it looks like the individual at AtlassRR doesn't know what he is talking about; this isn't the first time I got bad advice from a supposed expert.
I'm not too concerned about the "lack" of available space for scenery; my goal with this layout is to occupy my brain. When I get the tracks laid out in a fashion that will give me a lot to do, I will then concentrate on the scenery; have you ever heard the term, "less is better?"
After the completion of this second reverse track, which will give both Main Lines a lot more routes to take to customers; I will make the last track modification this 4 x 12 layout has room for, which is to connect the West end of the yard back to the Main Line.
A working yard with an "arrival and depart" track, combined with yard access from BOTH the East and West should keep my busy, "Operation Wise," for some time to come.
Did I mention a "Freight Station," or "Locomotive Service Facility" in the East-end loop?
 
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Indeed, it's always best to rely on information you get from real modelers rather than Atlas. They made many layout plans that are almost impossible to run because of steep grades and sharp curves and so justify them to modelers who ask as not being a problem They are. :)

Don't take my comments about the amount of track the wrong way. I'm a scenery guy so to me, less track is better. There are lots of modelers who want to have as much track and as many routes as possible with a little scenery. Neither approach is better or worse, just a matter of personal preference.
 
2nd Reverse Track Installed, done!

I got that "Title"(.........done!) from "Windows Update." Anyone who would taken anything wrong from anyone's advice should "Get A Life!"
Life's experience has taught me to take all advice given and make up my own mind what is good or bad. If anyone thinks the advice given in a model railroad forum is incorrect, they ought to check out the RV Internet Forums!!!
My 2nd reverse track is in, all that is left to do is install the "reverse track" electric module.
In the last photo, you can see there MAY still be a need for the "Helper Locomotive" siding track I mentioned earlier.
 
New Bridge Construction at "East-End" Loop

The developers of the property known as the "East-end Loop," won concession from the City government for development of the property. First up, is two expansive one thousand, five hundred, sixty-six foot Truss Bridges. The City also promised to replace the two aging Girder bridges at some future time, with something more aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
The replacement of the older bridges will open up the only entrance to the property. The rumor for the development, is a Railway Freight Terminal with Locomotive service facilities.
 
Funny, I was just looking through this HO Scale discussion for the first time, and there's my layout! I stuck with the original double-tracked design from years ago, but got rid of the turntable for more yard tracks. I noticed that the new design Atlas advertises is reduced to a single track under the double track bridge. No good for me, I like to see trains run! As Jim stated, the grades are steep and it is a lot of track for a 4X12 layout, but I enjoy it. I get to watch two trains fighting the grades, and also get to tear down and make up trains in the yard. I also disregarded Atlas' ideas for scenery! But on the flip side, I'm the owner of a John Armstrong designed layout!

Keith Baker
 
Photos

kbaker329 said:
Funny, I was just looking through this HO Scale discussion for the first time, and there's my layout! I stuck with the original double-tracked design from years ago, but got rid of the turntable for more yard tracks. I noticed that the new design Atlas advertises is reduced to a single track under the double track bridge. No good for me, I like to see trains run! As Jim stated, the grades are steep and it is a lot of track for a 4X12 layout, but I enjoy it. I get to watch two trains fighting the grades, and also get to tear down and make up trains in the yard. I also disregarded Atlas' ideas for scenery! But on the flip side, I'm the owner of a John Armstrong designed layout!

Keith Baker
Click to expand...
Do you have any digital photos you could post? You might be interested in this link:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/1090

I'm basically happy with the layout, the second reverse track gave the trains a lot more routes.
I plan on final addition to the layout; I'm going to build a shelf, I don't know the dimensions yet, on the West (left) 4 foot side of the table. It will contain a hidden staging yard and a connection from the front yard up and back to the outer Main Line.
 
I have some pictures, but I'd like to take better ones and I have to figure out how to post them to the forum!

I read the comments on the link you posted and a lot of those guys are operations oriented modelers. I'm not there yet. I'm more interested in running trains and watching them run. My layout is built, scenery is 80% finished and I'm ready to start detailing engines, building craftsman car kits and doing other scratchbuilding projects. That's where my interests really lie, but I wanted a nice looking railroad to showcase those future interests.

The biggest concern I have with your trackplan is scenery between the yard and the mainline. You have a runaround track that runs along the end of your stub yard. I thought about doing the same, but after playing around, I decided that it left very little room for scenery. I ended up with a vertical rock face, but I still wish I had more room for something else.

I'll try to post some pictures soon.

Keith Baker
 
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