KCSRailfan
KCS Railfan,and Modeler.
I just got word that the KCS SD70ACes have hit Horizon,and I cant wait to get mine. Anybody heard from Josh lately?
Athearn SD70ACe's released! Who's got one?!
- Thread starter wongsing
- Start date
Sorry for the misconfusion about a previous post. I wasn't trying to get anything started and if it sounded like I was it was not intentional. At any rate, you are right, we will get back on topic. Thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion. Does anyone else own one of these locos that wants to talk about it?
-Rich
-Rich
Rich,
I got two of them coming, but I told the shop I ordered them from to wait for the UP model to arrive in late Nov so they can ship it and my BNSF (that Kato AC4400 I got from you is lonely) one together to save on shipping. I am looking forward to getting them very much. I cant wait to evaluate them bc Id like to order a NS SD70M-2 but I want to make sure the Ace's are all they are supposed to be before I order.
take care,
Brad
I got two of them coming, but I told the shop I ordered them from to wait for the UP model to arrive in late Nov so they can ship it and my BNSF (that Kato AC4400 I got from you is lonely) one together to save on shipping. I am looking forward to getting them very much. I cant wait to evaluate them bc Id like to order a NS SD70M-2 but I want to make sure the Ace's are all they are supposed to be before I order.
take care,
Brad
Saw the guys video. Comments:
So the MTH is louder, so what? I routinely turn my loco volumes down to 50% or lower. I don't want to hear it all around the layout, just when it approaches, and passes. In large club settings, we're always having guys turn their volume down so it doesn't get on everyone's nerves. If we verify the speaker enclosure problem, problem solved.
He thinks it won't pull as much as the MTH model? Dude! Ya too lazy to test it?
Drive? MTH Better? Based on what? Most Tsunami diesels need to be programmed out of the box for momentum. With an NCE system, you can do this with two keystrokes, or with your JMRI or however. He wasn't evaluating the drive at all, just the response on DCC
He likes the bluish light better? Oh well, no accounting for taste I guess
Poor review. He might as well say he just plain likes MTH better. Who needs facts anyway?
The model is too new for me, but I'd still like to see reports on it from others. Without the bias please?
So the MTH is louder, so what? I routinely turn my loco volumes down to 50% or lower. I don't want to hear it all around the layout, just when it approaches, and passes. In large club settings, we're always having guys turn their volume down so it doesn't get on everyone's nerves. If we verify the speaker enclosure problem, problem solved.
He thinks it won't pull as much as the MTH model? Dude! Ya too lazy to test it?
Drive? MTH Better? Based on what? Most Tsunami diesels need to be programmed out of the box for momentum. With an NCE system, you can do this with two keystrokes, or with your JMRI or however. He wasn't evaluating the drive at all, just the response on DCC
He likes the bluish light better? Oh well, no accounting for taste I guess
Poor review. He might as well say he just plain likes MTH better. Who needs facts anyway?
The model is too new for me, but I'd still like to see reports on it from others. Without the bias please?
Okay, for all that may have wanted to know, I just got my ace yesterday and so some of the questions that have been asked and a bunch of my own can get answered. First, the speaker is a circular type and it is mounted vertiacallyand forward of the motor. There is a piece of metal that doubles as a weight and speaker housing with the speaker held in it by two screws. From what I am understanding, the edges around the speaker are the problem because they are not sealed. However, isn't the face of a speaker supposed to be facing outwards and not with a wall of metal in front of it? (BTW: this is not a complaint, I really don't know!) I put silicon sealant around the circumfrence of the speaker to seal it in there. Hope it makes it sound even better, although I didn't think it sounded bad anyways. Just alittle quiet is all. Also, if anyone was wondering, this loco is VERY nice, very state of the art, and very worth it (to me at least). I did notice a few sloppy joints on a few of the very small detail parts...Nothing serious, just visible to the rivet counters like myself. While there were a few parts I noticed weren't as straight applied as I would maybe have liked, at least they are not "run of the mill" molded on and shallow. A lot of the seperately applied parts were metal (the grilles, horn, windshield wipers, plumbing underneath) are metal and more durable. Hard for me to rate the drive yet. It is very quiet and all, alittle jerky like a brand new RTR engine due to it not being broke in. This is fine though. The roof is magnetic and despite this (I thought that would be a bad idea at first) the roof stays well in place until you want to take it off. The detail on the inside of the cab is like nothing I have ever seen before! Everything from the conductor side refrigerator to the track camera, to the extra crew seat in the middle and to the rear is included! Very impressive! They even tinted the windows (although this makes them not that shiny now) looking at the parts manual and showing several different optional parts showing that athearn will make every railroad's loco specific. When I was at the hobby shop, there were some MTH engines there. I do like the sound on them and the metal handrails too...I suppose this is a personal preference and they are both really nice. I encourage anyone to check them out themselves. I will post more about the sound when I get to run it later on after work. Until then, if anyone else has anymore to share about this...
-Rich
diburning
AlcoHaulic
I've done an install like that.
This sounds similar to the setup in the SD45-2. There is a speaker plug in the weight that adds weight to the engine if theres no sound, and theres a speaker there if sound is installed.
The speaker cone goes INTO the weight, with the magnet side facing out. The inside of the weight does not have any holes so theres no cancellation of sound waves from either side of the speaker. The speakers should fit snugly and the screws should hold the speaker in tight enough to create a seal. If theres a gap, try tightening the screws that hold the speaker in place. If they don't tighten any further, then either seal it with bathtub caulk, silicone or some other sealant, or try to shorten the screws and then put the screws back in. You may have to use a sealant if the speaker causes any obstruction of a good seal.
Now as to whether the speaker cone faces in or out. Both sides of the speaker move the air which carries the sound waves to your ear (well, the sound waves bounce off things before they get to your ear). One side exerts a "positive" pressure wave and the other exerts a "negative" pressure wave. If the speaker is not sealed, the side from one side will cancel out the sound from the other side. In the Athearn loco, the cone side emits the sound into the weight, has nowhere to go, and therefore has to vibrate the chassis to "radiate" out. The magnet side, facing out, is up against the shell. The sound has to vibrate the shell to "radiate" out. Because the two sound waves have to travel through different materials and different distances, you get a deeper sound.
If the Athearn SD70ACes have improperly sealed speakers, then the sound waves coming from the cone side is escaping out the gap and canceling out the sound waves coming from the magnet side thereby causing the volume to drop.
Usually, the cone side goes into the hole because of a bump of insulation on the rim of the speaker to keep the coil wires from shorting out. If you try to remove that insulation at all, all you would get is a broken speaker.
This sounds similar to the setup in the SD45-2. There is a speaker plug in the weight that adds weight to the engine if theres no sound, and theres a speaker there if sound is installed.
The speaker cone goes INTO the weight, with the magnet side facing out. The inside of the weight does not have any holes so theres no cancellation of sound waves from either side of the speaker. The speakers should fit snugly and the screws should hold the speaker in tight enough to create a seal. If theres a gap, try tightening the screws that hold the speaker in place. If they don't tighten any further, then either seal it with bathtub caulk, silicone or some other sealant, or try to shorten the screws and then put the screws back in. You may have to use a sealant if the speaker causes any obstruction of a good seal.
Now as to whether the speaker cone faces in or out. Both sides of the speaker move the air which carries the sound waves to your ear (well, the sound waves bounce off things before they get to your ear). One side exerts a "positive" pressure wave and the other exerts a "negative" pressure wave. If the speaker is not sealed, the side from one side will cancel out the sound from the other side. In the Athearn loco, the cone side emits the sound into the weight, has nowhere to go, and therefore has to vibrate the chassis to "radiate" out. The magnet side, facing out, is up against the shell. The sound has to vibrate the shell to "radiate" out. Because the two sound waves have to travel through different materials and different distances, you get a deeper sound.
If the Athearn SD70ACes have improperly sealed speakers, then the sound waves coming from the cone side is escaping out the gap and canceling out the sound waves coming from the magnet side thereby causing the volume to drop.
Usually, the cone side goes into the hole because of a bump of insulation on the rim of the speaker to keep the coil wires from shorting out. If you try to remove that insulation at all, all you would get is a broken speaker.
Yes, an unbiased opinion of the MTH and Athearn would be nice! Honestly, they are both gorgeous looking and I would have enjoyed owning either one. I don't own any MTH's so I can't make a good argument for or against them. And what's up with the DCS? Sounds like a pain in the @$$! To me, that seems lile the biggest drawback if anything. To diburning, I have been doing model railoading for a few years now, but NEVER looked into speaker installation or how to improve acoustics, so that was interesting! Another good point was about the momentum...That bothered me a lot, the fact that my ACe more or less stops on a dime, bit I didn't think about how easy it may be to program that in! So when I get home I am gonna try out the sound on my new engine! Hope it sounds alittle louder and alittle clearer although I felt it was pretty good already. So on that note though, how much does anyone think that my sealing the speaker enclosure help? And I take it (and took It during the repair earlier) to seal around the speaker sparingly with silicon right? Or does this matter? I didn't get any silicon sealant on the back side of the speaker and didn't use a ton of it. I did make sure there was no gaps as well. Should I have added more? Would anyone like pics? I will post more after I get home tonight on its performance...
-Rich
-Rich
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
The Model Railroad Hobbyist first look is coming, whenever Josh gets my unit in from his supplier. This spring, I'm planning to order an MTH DCC ready unit, and Tsunami it up, maybe Loksound. I can then do a proper side-by-side for Model Railroad Tips. I'd use a DCS version, but it's too much of a hassle to use one with my current DCC set-up, it would be an oddball.
Motley
Active Member
Now that they're supposed to be doing DCC ready stuff I may entertain their offerings if they do something that interests me. They haven't yet though. I'm "waitin & seein"
Umm, have you been under a rock? MTH came out with DCC ready versions a couple of months ago.
I think it's sad that you have to fix the sound on a loco that costs $250. And the MTH can be had for $189.
You haven't been reading very closely, have you?
Pay attention son:First, we have not established that there is anything wrong with the Athearn model's sound, only that it isn't as loud as the MTH unit, and the guy on YouTube didn't bother to check what volume the unit was set at. He was in too big of a hurry to tell us all how much better the MTH unit was. When someone fixes one, if it needs it, and reports better performance, then we'll know there was a problem.
As for price, the MTH models were not discounted when they were new. In time, the Athearn units will drop in price. For those who buy strictly on price, you'll have to wait a while as usual.
As to where I've been, like I said, they have not done anything that interests me yet. I'm not into toy trains. Their GS-4 was terrible. Crude detail, long toy like drawbar spacing, and generic sounds, not even the correct whistle. A shame, when you consider that the real thing can be recorded easily. Their GS-6 was a GS-4 painted black with a correct nose but incorrect details and driver sizes. (but hey, it talked
) There hasn't been anything from them since those models that got my attention. This model is the first chance that we've had to look at the same model from two companies, but we have not had a reviewer yet who knows how to write it up properly, or who is unbiased. When they do a model that interests me, I'll look at them a little more closely. Until then, they aren't going to get on my radar. They'll have to continue moving toward prototypical accuracy and away from the toy train gimmicks for that to happen (and I hope they do), but if you like them, have at it.
Last edited by a moderator:
You haven't been reading very closely, have you?
Geez, condescend much?
Apparently you need to pay better attention ... there was a post about needing to seal the sides of the speaker and some sloppy joints in the build:
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202572&postcount=30
Geez, condescend much?
I wasn't snarky first, but I'll usually be snarky back. Guess that's a failing of mine
No I saw "reports from the Atlas forum" in Crandell's post, and like I said, when someone somewhere fixes one and reports an improvement, then it'll be confirmed. Right now, it's something that's been heard from someone somewhere else. It's a rumor, and may not effect all units, or only a few. Or even none. What can I tell you, I'm interested in facts. Maybe someone else who has one will chime in here and we can find out for sure. Wongsing hasn't said one way or the other if it helped, and really didn't seem to think it was a big deal to begin with.
We're also letting "better sound" be defined by volume. Isn't it really about who has better sound files and how well the decoder reproduces the sounds of the prototype?
Last edited by a moderator:
