Given the relatively high costs of model railroading, it doesn't seem like the thousand or so dollars necessary to get into 3D printing is too high a barrier. Is anyone doing 3D printing of models, parts, scenery, etc? Scratch building to tight tolerances is not easy - seems like 3D printing might be a nice way to get more accurate results.
Anyone doing 3D printing?
- Thread starter Vince-RA
- Start date
Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out. I have no doubt it's total overkill for some things, but I'm more comfortable with a computer and 3D modeling than I am with making square cuts on styrene, so seems like it might be worth looking into....
DaveInTheHat
Active Member
I made an HO scale bathtub on one of the SLA machines where I work. That's all I've done with 3D printing.
diburning
AlcoHaulic
Brian Banna (of 6axlepwr.com) went to a 3D printing firm (they exist, you can send them computer models and they can print them for you) and made Alco coupler pockets, but as his article explains, it takes a bit of work and there are slight obstacles.
http://www.6axlepwr.com/Alco_COUPLER_POCKET.html
http://www.6axlepwr.com/Alco_COUPLER_POCKET.html
CMMR
Member
Vince - at work we use Redeye in Minnesota. They have all kinds of different materials, and you can submit your stl cad file and get a quote within minutes. You can get more info here....
http://www.redeyeondemand.com/
http://www.redeyeondemand.com/
jdetray
Well-Known Member
Don't forget Shapeways. People have already created more than 1,300 model train items that you can purchase on the Shapeways site. And of course you can send them a CAD file and create your own items.
- Jeff
- Jeff
silverbackman
New Member
I assume you've seen these;
http://www.up3dusa.com/
or
http://www.makerbot.com/
I've been thinking about this exact thing. In addition to designing your own 'things', I've thought about having alternative scaled items, say something that's in O but not available in HO, scanned using a 3D scanner (lots of companies out there that do that) and saved as a CAD file. You can then adjust the size to HO (or N or G for that matter).
I just don't know how expensive the 3D scanning is yet. If it turns out to be really expensive, it wouldn't make it unrealistic, it would just mean a lot of measuring with my digital caliper.
And when you think about it, 3D scanning companies can scan just about anything (even buildings!), which opens up a huge bucket of possibilities.
And once you have the scan, you can 3D print as many as you want!
Want your layouts entire city locked in grid lock from a scale model of your 1982 Toyota Celica? Have it scanned, then print out a thousand of them!
For that matter, have yourself scanned and then make miniature clones of yourself and place them all over your layout! Or your house! You could have a miniature you watching you as you sleep, or shower!
And to answer the material question; these use the exact same stuff that LEGO is made from (so yes, you could make your own LEGO if you wanted to).
http://www.up3dusa.com/
or
http://www.makerbot.com/
I've been thinking about this exact thing. In addition to designing your own 'things', I've thought about having alternative scaled items, say something that's in O but not available in HO, scanned using a 3D scanner (lots of companies out there that do that) and saved as a CAD file. You can then adjust the size to HO (or N or G for that matter).
I just don't know how expensive the 3D scanning is yet. If it turns out to be really expensive, it wouldn't make it unrealistic, it would just mean a lot of measuring with my digital caliper.
And when you think about it, 3D scanning companies can scan just about anything (even buildings!), which opens up a huge bucket of possibilities.
And once you have the scan, you can 3D print as many as you want!
Want your layouts entire city locked in grid lock from a scale model of your 1982 Toyota Celica? Have it scanned, then print out a thousand of them!
For that matter, have yourself scanned and then make miniature clones of yourself and place them all over your layout! Or your house! You could have a miniature you watching you as you sleep, or shower!
And to answer the material question; these use the exact same stuff that LEGO is made from (so yes, you could make your own LEGO if you wanted to
).
Steve S
Member
I've never used them, but there's a company based in San Francisco called Moddler that does 3D printing. Check out their portfolio.
http://www.moddler.com/portfolio
Steve S
http://www.moddler.com/portfolio
Steve S
Steve S
Member
Those home machines like Makerbot and RepRap don't have nearly the resolution for making things like body shells. You can clearly see and feel the horizontal layers. You could use them for making things like brackets to mount switch machines and stuff like that. For a visible model you'd want to send the file out to a company with high-end equipment.
This site claims you can do it for the cost of a line laser and a webcam.
http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
Steve S
Last edited by a moderator:
silverbackman
New Member
Hey Steve,
Thanks for that input.
I haven't used a 'makerbots' and that was one of my concerns.
I think the resolution on them is actually there (0.2mm according to the website-0.078"), but I think it's the application process. I'm guessing that because the ambient air temperature isn't being controlled (and for that matter, the humidity) that the 'print material' doesn't cure at the right speed so as to eliminate the banding effect.
That's unfortunate. But there is a reason the big companies are in business, because they spend the money to do it right.
The downside of the big companies though is cost to us. The site you mentioned has a rough estimator, so I put in the info for the attached semi truck cab, ho scale
View attachment 30361
The estimated cost to recreate it would be $60.00 or more.
So, unless it was a exceptionally important piece, I think it is out of the range of most modelers.
Now I'm sad.
Just a thought Steve, do you think those vertical lines would be sandable and or fillable? I know this wouldn't work with something that has a lot of detail on the surface (rivets of a rail car for instance), but what I'm thinking is you could print things like buildings (a house or concrete building for example), sand, smooth, paint and add super detail parts after the fact. If that route would work, I'm thinking there would be other uses, perhaps bridge abutments.
And it still may be cost prohibitive this way as well as I'm not sure how much material is used in a printed object.
Just looking for you opinion on that.
Jeff.
Thanks for that input.
I haven't used a 'makerbots' and that was one of my concerns.
I think the resolution on them is actually there (0.2mm according to the website-0.078"), but I think it's the application process. I'm guessing that because the ambient air temperature isn't being controlled (and for that matter, the humidity) that the 'print material' doesn't cure at the right speed so as to eliminate the banding effect.
That's unfortunate. But there is a reason the big companies are in business, because they spend the money to do it right.
The downside of the big companies though is cost to us. The site you mentioned has a rough estimator, so I put in the info for the attached semi truck cab, ho scale
View attachment 30361
The estimated cost to recreate it would be $60.00 or more.
So, unless it was a exceptionally important piece, I think it is out of the range of most modelers.
Now I'm sad.
Just a thought Steve, do you think those vertical lines would be sandable and or fillable? I know this wouldn't work with something that has a lot of detail on the surface (rivets of a rail car for instance), but what I'm thinking is you could print things like buildings (a house or concrete building for example), sand, smooth, paint and add super detail parts after the fact. If that route would work, I'm thinking there would be other uses, perhaps bridge abutments.
And it still may be cost prohibitive this way as well as I'm not sure how much material is used in a printed object.
Just looking for you opinion on that.
Jeff.
silverbackman
New Member
This site claims you can do it for the cost of a line laser and a webcam.
http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
I had actually looked into this a few months back (the exact same website), and although they say it's 'easy to do', it's not.
You need to take full scans of the object, turning it in very small increments each time...the smaller the turn, the better the detail. Each scan creates an individual image that you have to go in and remove all the background 'noise'... and there's a lot!
My thinking is to get a true representation of the object, with the right level of detail, you would need to take 360 individual images and then manipulate those images! Not my idea of time well spent!
Basically we are in the same place as 'makerbots'; just not right for our uses.
But look at it this way, DCC was once a fringe type of technology that few people used because it just didn't give the results that we needed, and it cost too much. Now look at how far it has come in such a short time.
Perhaps in the near future, we will be able to use this 3D scanning/printing type of tech. I know that only as short as 5 years ago, the makerbot was a kit that you had to make yourself, and it required you to tear apart a printer for parts.
As a side note: if you buy a makerbot, you can download, for free, the drawings for all the parts to print a full functional makerbot (less the print heads and a few other 'metal only' parts)!
Jeff
http://www.david-laserscanner.com/
I had actually looked into this a few months back (the exact same website), and although they say it's 'easy to do', it's not.
You need to take full scans of the object, turning it in very small increments each time...the smaller the turn, the better the detail. Each scan creates an individual image that you have to go in and remove all the background 'noise'... and there's a lot!
My thinking is to get a true representation of the object, with the right level of detail, you would need to take 360 individual images and then manipulate those images! Not my idea of time well spent!
Basically we are in the same place as 'makerbots'; just not right for our uses.
But look at it this way, DCC was once a fringe type of technology that few people used because it just didn't give the results that we needed, and it cost too much. Now look at how far it has come in such a short time.
Perhaps in the near future, we will be able to use this 3D scanning/printing type of tech. I know that only as short as 5 years ago, the makerbot was a kit that you had to make yourself, and it required you to tear apart a printer for parts.
As a side note: if you buy a makerbot, you can download, for free, the drawings for all the parts to print a full functional makerbot (less the print heads and a few other 'metal only' parts)!
Jeff
Steve S
Member
Sorry for the delay in getting back.
Those DIY machines use a completely different process than the high-end ones. The Makerbots use a spool of plastic wire that is heated to the melting point and then extruded. The high-end machines use either fine powder or a liquid, so they're capable of finer resolution. Hopefully in a few years you'll be able to walk down to your nearest Kinko's and get a high-quality model printed in a few hours.
It's definitely not the type of thing that you'd want to use for mass producing 20 freight cars. But for that one-of-a-kind model that you just gotta have, 60 bucks is fairly reasonable. If you want a lot of copies, you could always use the 3D printing service to create a master from which you could cast copies using resin or even plaster. Not sure how much cheaper the resin would be.
Probably would work. The plastic is the same type used to make Legos. You could always ask over at the RepRap forums.
http://forums.reprap.org/
For something like a bridge abutment, you can make them hollow, or at least mostly hollow. They usually create an internal structure for strength, but it's mostly hollow. Over at the RepRap Mendel site they give these prices for the three types of plastic...
PLA: $14/lb, HDPE: $7/lb, ABS: $10/lb
RepRap has made all the software and plans freely available for their machines.
Steve S
Those DIY machines use a completely different process than the high-end ones. The Makerbots use a spool of plastic wire that is heated to the melting point and then extruded. The high-end machines use either fine powder or a liquid, so they're capable of finer resolution. Hopefully in a few years you'll be able to walk down to your nearest Kinko's and get a high-quality model printed in a few hours.
The downside of the big companies though is cost to us. The site you mentioned has a rough estimator, so I put in the info for the attached semi truck cab, ho scale
The estimated cost to recreate it would be $60.00 or more.
So, unless it was a exceptionally important piece, I think it is out of the range of most modelers.
Now I'm sad.
It's definitely not the type of thing that you'd want to use for mass producing 20 freight cars. But for that one-of-a-kind model that you just gotta have, 60 bucks is fairly reasonable. If you want a lot of copies, you could always use the 3D printing service to create a master from which you could cast copies using resin or even plaster. Not sure how much cheaper the resin would be.
Probably would work. The plastic is the same type used to make Legos. You could always ask over at the RepRap forums.
http://forums.reprap.org/
For something like a bridge abutment, you can make them hollow, or at least mostly hollow. They usually create an internal structure for strength, but it's mostly hollow. Over at the RepRap Mendel site they give these prices for the three types of plastic...
PLA: $14/lb, HDPE: $7/lb, ABS: $10/lb
RepRap has made all the software and plans freely available for their machines.
Steve S
jdetray
Well-Known Member
If you have not seen the following thread, take a look at what has already been done.
Printing a steam locomotive
Pretty amazing!
- Jeff
Printing a steam locomotive
Pretty amazing!
- Jeff
silverbackman
New Member
Makerbot-no, Shapeways-yes!
Hey all
I actually seen live "prints" from the makerbot system last week at the train show here in Calgary.
Yup, way too rough to work with. If you run your fingernail down them, it's almost like doing the same on a comb!
But the Shapeways option looks promising, although still a little expensive for HO. Definitely an option to get one item made and then use it as a master to cast from.
At least the technology is there though. I can see it being viable for home-hoddyist use in the next 5-10 years.
I have to admit, it was cool to watch things take shape on the makerbot!
Hey all
I actually seen live "prints" from the makerbot system last week at the train show here in Calgary.
Yup, way too rough to work with. If you run your fingernail down them, it's almost like doing the same on a comb!
But the Shapeways option looks promising, although still a little expensive for HO. Definitely an option to get one item made and then use it as a master to cast from.
At least the technology is there though. I can see it being viable for home-hoddyist use in the next 5-10 years.
I have to admit, it was cool to watch things take shape on the makerbot!
