Another new layout thread


OBS

OBS

Structure Fan
I'd initially figured I'd do something similar to my area, I live in the remains of an old steel town and farming community. But it seems like all the layouts I see are steel mills and logging operations, and they're all amazing, but I like to be different. I also love the Art Deco style, which doesn't go as well with agriculture and steel mills, but I think I've finally figured out what I want to do. I'm planning a mid 1930's Hover Dam (ish- not exact) layout. Not sure if I want to make it a Nevada type layout, maybe something more lush and green.

Any suggestions on Art Deco, or Dam related structures, or Train sets?

I posted this thread a few days back, I love this style of engine, and would like to find a similar set for my layout.

This thing is a beaut too...
 
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If you like that engine, you won't find it in a train set.

Train sets are good to get you playing around, but the rarely fit you idea of a good layout. With a few exceptions, the quality is usually pretty poor.

If you haven't done so already, you might read my beginner's Guide which you can click to from my signature. Takes about 5 minutes
 
Set was the wrong word... train "line" perhaps? Are there any engines and cars in production that resemble the one I posted a picture of? Not necessarily in "bobbies 10th birthday gift" form.
 
There are a few stream-line models out there. There was one that was just released in MR last month. But for sure there is the Hiawatha and the California Zephyr.

And though not exactly that class a couple companies have come out with the SP 4499.
 
If you like art deco, check out Lance Mindheims "Voodoo and Palmettoes" layout. It is based on the Miami, Florida warehouse district. Lance also includes prototypical photos of warehouses. If you truly like different.

www.lancemindheim.com

larry
 
Streamlined steam engine models are few and far between unless you're willing to pony up the money for brass. Broadway Limited has a New Haven I-5 and, as Chip mentioned, a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha in steam and the Burlington Zephyrs if you want diesel.

If you're interested in a eastern version of art deco dams like Hoover, check out some of the ones built by the TVA in 1930's. The Fontana Dam, in particular, has many of the features of Hoover Dam. Building it would involve a fair amount of real estate and a lot of scratchbuilding. Modeling the reservoir and spillways would be a real challenge. I'm not sure there would be much connection between the dam and a railroad except for the fact that some temporary spurs served the dam site during constuction.

I don't want to discourage you but this type of layout would be very difficult to build if this is your first layout. It would definitely be different but I'd plan on at least a 20'x40' space to build the layout and about five years to get most of the major scenery in place.
 
Here's an early plan I drew up using google Sketchup. Because I like scenery, buildings, and all more than train operating, the track is pretty basic. But could be expanded into a larger layout further down the road.
 
Meaning no disrespect, are you trying to build a model dam or model railroad? The dam is much too thick in cross-section to represent a real dam. The dam structure would be about 1/4 as thick as you've shown and the reservoir would come up to the face of the dam. I'm not sure what the structure in the middle of the dam is supposed to be. If it's a spillway, it's much too vertical. Most dams try to keep spillways at at 70 degree angle or less or you end up with and uncontrollable waterfall. I have no idea what the other square sections on the dam are supposed to represent.

As far as the railroad goes, what is it supposed to be doing? There's no reason for a railroad to run in a circle below the face of a dam. It's hard to read the lettering on your diagram but it looks like you are putting industrial areas directly below the dam face and in the pathway of a dam failure flood. This use wouldn't be allowed be federal dam safety regulations and no railroad would want to build in such a critical area and risk losing all its investment in the case of a dam failure. A dam that size would require a clear area at least two miles below the face of the dam. That's about 115 feet in HO scale so I hope you have lots of room for your layout. :)

Have you thought about putting the dam in as a backdrop where you can make it look like it's further away? It would require far less work and you can reasonably model railroads several miles downstream. Of course, this is all prototypical information based on my years as a project manager for some big dams. It's your layout and you can always do want you want even if a federal dam inspector would have a fit. :D
 
Last year at a model train show, I saw a nice model of a steel mill that took up a couple square feet. But in reality, I've never seen a one building steel mill, it's usually a big complex.

Because, It's just a model.
 
Indeed, it's just a model. If you want to build what you want, go ahead and do so. Seems like you wanted advice when you posted your sketch. If you don't want advice, just say so so when posting and I'll save myself some typing.
 
Sorry.. I was overly sensitive. My initial posting was more about related structures, trains, accessories and design elements. I didn't think that I'd actually come a across a guy who used to build dams after posting a sketch. I thought that a dam would be an interesting alternative to the usual big industrial focal points, and what I drew up was just from looking at some pictures of dams on google images.

Could you recommend a more fitting alternative to what I drew up? A smaller dam structure? or are there under no circumstances any kind of dam that would be near industry and train lines?

I'm not married to the whole dam idea, just tossing it around with some others.

Realistically tho, were does a person draw the line between realism and it being a hobby model? I think most of the models, except the big 50' x 50' ones, are a bit more compressed than we'd find in real life.
 
I can understand that you want something different on your layout but a dam that big will be an overwhelming design element and the railroad will fade into obscurity compared to the size of the dam.

Smaller dams were often found near rail lines. The feds don't regulate smaller dams the way they do larger dams and many of them come under state regulation, which can range from near federal dam safety requirements to almost nothing. Most smaller dams also don't have large spillways and hydro plants so you don't have to do as much compression to get one to fit on a layout. For a different type of dam, take a look at this:

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It's a timber crib dam. They aren't common now but used be very common early in the 20th century in places where timber was abundant. Most were built for flood control or irrigation and had relatively small reservoirs. You could model something like this and have timber and wood related industries almost directly downsteam since the outflow tended to be into gorges with points of high ground around them for buildings and rail lines. A timber crib dam is a type of low head diversion dam, which can be found today, mostly earth filled or concrete. The water was normally diverted for irrigation although a few had small powerhouses. A low head diversion dam will give you an interesting design element without building a huge structure and only the reservoir would have to be compressed, which is easy to do with the right backdrop.

In my mind, you compress what you want people to see in the background and do the least compression to what people see in the foreground. A low head dam, while not as elegant as Hoover Dam, does have it's appeal and its size is much more in line with the average layout.
 
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After reading the posts here, and many good points made, I will offer my .02, for what it may be worth.

I love your idea to make a dam. They are obviously huge masterpieces. If I had to put one in my lay out, I would do it in a more Nevada setting, where its in a canyon, so the top is level with the railroad. I would put it in the corner of a layout, and have to drop towards the floor. This would allow a realistic operation, and still allow the dam to be a HUGE focal point. Maybe even have the rail run over the top of the dam much like how you can drive over the Hoover Dam.

Once again though, just my .02, I hope it helps some.
 
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