Advice for a new guy - locomotive issue?


Its not mechanical. That's the great thing about steamers, if it has a symptom in one direction, it will be there in the other. This is due to the fact that the mechanism relies on the physical connection of the rods to the wheels, and not on the interaction of multiple gears, driving each individual axle.
 
Thank you Carey. Like I said, I'm not a steamer but now I know something about them that I didn't know before.
Willie
 
Wow. Cleaned the pickups on the tenders for both Mantua steam engines and they run in forward MUCH better. Still not 100 percent, but a drastic improvement. Next up - a new power source and clean the engines.
 
I have about 20 of the Mantua/Tyco steaners and the problems you will have are elictrical contact issues. All the electriclal contact area's have to be spotless . What i have done is, on the 6 wheel tenders is replace the center axel (that has 2 plastic wheels) with one that has another brass wheel for pick-up. Then i take a thin brass wire and wrap it around each axel to link them together. Take a flexable wire soldered to the brass wire and connect it to the drawbar screw on the tender. This will give you positive electrical contact between tender and engine. The engine will run as good in fwd as reverse, this will last alot longer with no trouble between cleanings. On one 4-6-2 i also added electrical wipers that contact the back of the drive wheels and it runs like a champ even on dirty track. For additional main engine pick-up you can also change the front pilot truck wheels to metal wheels.
 
I believe you are correct. I replaced my faulty power Pack, re-cleaned the track and oiled the locomotive drive components and all that seemed to help, somewhat. The locomotives run much better than before, but still not as smooth as I'd like. Next up is cleaning the motors with some isopropyl alcohol. I hope I don't have to go so far as to install extra pickups and replace axles, but it's good to know someone else out there has done it successfully! Thanks for the advice.
 
I won't claim to be an expert on Mantua steam locomotives, but OTOH, I've been working with them for about the last 35 years or so, so I may be able to offer some suggestions. From what you said about running better in reverse than forward is symptomatic of "cogging" between the bull gear on the main driver and the worm on the motor shaft. Most likely your locomotives have open-frame motors held to the frame by a single screw, and the worm engages the bull gear directly. (Older ones had a gear box and the motor shaft was connected to the shaft that stuck out of the back of the gearbox by flexible tubing or a universal joint. Those ran much better, but were more expensive to manufacture, so Mantua/Tyco dropped them in favor of the direct drive.) To analyze your problem, you will need to remove the boiler (which you will have to do anyway to clean the commutator on the motor). If you don't already have them, get a pair of alligator clips on the end of wires coming from a power pack. Clip one wire to the frame and one to the tender frame. Turn on the power, using the speed control knob, SLOWLY, with the reverse switch in the reverse position (drivers going in reverse). Watch the position of the armature of the motor (the part that turns) relative to the frame of the motor. The end of the armature will probably be back against the brass frame piece which has a bronze thrust bearing in it. Now, throw the reverse switch on the power pack to the forward position. Watch the armature. It will move longitudinally in the other direction until it hits the other thrust bearing. If this amount of travel between reverse and forward is excessive, the teeth on the worm gear will probably engage excessively with the teeth on the bull gear. There are a couple of ways to handle this:

The simplest is to loosen the screw that holds the motor to the frame and see if you can move the entire motor until the engagement decreases. Tighten the mounting screw, but don't overdo the change in position. Also, when you re-tighten the screw, it may tend to pull the engagement back into too tight a position. You can prevent this by placing a thin shim under the front end of the motor. Sometimes just a piece of notebook paper will be sufficient. It will be trial and error, but should make your loco run much smoother in the forward direction. You might also use a piece of brass shim.

Now, if the above doesn't work, try removing the motor altogether and pushing the locomotive forward and back. If it still feels tight running forward, you may have something binding in the running gear. Look to see if any of your drivers are wobbling. It may be that one of your drivers are out of quarter with the others. These problems are easier to fix than to discribe, but re-quartering drivers requires a tool to do it. Since your problem appears to happen in only one direction, I'd look at the motor gear engagement first.

Ideally, the best thing to do with Mantua steamers is to replace the motor with a can motor and install a gearbox. Yardbird used to have some, but I think I bought the last one! Another possibility was the sheet-metal gear boxes from Herold Mellor. Unfortunately, he has been long gone from this mortal coil. Even with his boxes, the original motors needed to be disassembed and the thrust bearings and washers cannibalized to be used with the sheet-metal boxes.

But, I'd bet you will do okay by adjusting the engagement of the worm and bull gear. How many locomotives are you dealing with? Let us know of your progress.
 
Thanks. This may be a bit beyond my mechanical capabilities, but I will give it a go. from the symptoms, you may be correct. I find, in general, the Mantuas run better - faster - in reverse. Forward gear seems to be an effort and is not as fast at full throttle or as smooth. The engines are from the 1960s, I was told when I bought the kits on eBay and had a local builder assemble them for me.
 
Diverguy64-
Try the shimming of the motor before anything else. Other than removing the three screws that hold the boiler to the frame, and loosening the motor mounting screw, it doesn't take much more than fooling around with the thickness of the shim (like I said, maybe not more than a piece of paper).

What models are these Mantuas? Just curious, as the solution is probably the same for all of them.
 
Thanks. This may be a bit beyond my mechanical capabilities, but I will give it a go.


The great thing about our hobby is how much we can learn. I once thought fixed loco mechanisms was beyond my ability until I tried it a few times. There were a few things I had to learn but it wasn't so hard. Umm, I did end up having to buy a few little tools along the way.
 



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