77 petrol tanker runaway train derail and explode


We seem to be back to lack of information. I have looked at a lot of photos of the crash, and unless the locomotive is completely buried under tank cars, it ain't there.
You don't suppose somebody from the fire department separated the burning loco from the train, thinking they were doing the right thing?
 
We seem to be back to lack of information. I have looked at a lot of photos of the crash, and unless the locomotive is completely buried under tank cars, it ain't there.
You don't suppose somebody from the fire department separated the burning loco from the train, thinking they were doing the right thing?

I agree, I to have looked through the photos and have not seen the loco. I just watched a BBC amateur video from the moments just after it crashed. You can plainly see the F.R.E.D. flashing, and from the vantage point, the rear of the train was the farthest away. So, where is it? I have read they recovered the locos black box so its there somewhere.
 
Curiously similar to the movie Unstoppable.? Brake system, no engineer, long string of explosive cars heading to city full of people. OMG this is just really strange coincidence.
 
I think that this sabotage, the keystone pipeline has been waiting for an accident like this to get it approved, all's it takes is someone to pull the pin and then bleed the air off of the cars to let them role, even after the train was inspected and was found to have no defects, this could only have happened by someone releasing the brakes from pulling the bleed rod on every rail car, unstoppable was unrealistic and not possible, if the train were under power the alerter would have shut down the engine and dynamite the brakes, yeah it was only a matter of time, but an accident like this would happen when the train was moving and a crew mistake or track defect. its not possible for 77 rail cars having brakes fail and then roll by chance, if the air brake system would fail like this, an like this accident would have happened to common freight trains long before, I dont think its a coincidence that an oil train just happened to blow up a town during the keystone xl pipeline debate.
 
I think the engineer didn't set the hand brakes, and after the engine was shut down after the fire, the air bled out, and away they went.


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Curiously similar to the movie Unstoppable.? Brake system, no engineer, long string of explosive cars heading to city full of people. OMG this is just really strange coincidence.

Especially since Unstoppable was on Bravo TV Friday night.


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I think the engineer didn't set the hand brakes, and after the engine was shut down after the fire, the air bled out, and away they went.


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if the engineer did not apply the set the brakes, the train would have rolled away immediately unless sufficient number of hand brakes were already applied, which would have prevented the whole accident to begin with, any drop in pressure in the brake pipe line would have set the brakes, if the pressure in the brake line went to zero, the emergency reservoir would still engage the brakes, if the air in main reservoir of each car was not replenished by the power which is always running because train engines do not use antifreeze (most engines now are equipped auto start so engine can save fuel but restart every couple of hours except in freezing conditions) the emergency air reservoir in every car would still apply the brakes, the only way to bleed air out of the emergency system on a rail car is by pulling the manual bleed rod, it is possible that rail cars can leak and bleed them selves, but having 77 cars in a row bleed themselves is not likely especially since the emergency air system is not connected to any of the cars when the system is activated. To activate an emergency brake on a rail car is caused by a rapid drop of air which closes a valve isolating the system to just the emergency reservoir and the piston. Air is replenished into both reservoirs when brake pipe pressure rises. if no hand brakes were applied when the crew left is possible but would not explain the train separating from the other half and rolling on its own unless the pin was pulled, like so many people here pointed out there is no evidence in the pictures that the power rolled with it.
 
With all due respect, your statement has some large holes.

-As for 'the power is always running', the WHOLE POINT of the thing is that the fire dept shut down the engine because of a stack fire. That fact is not in dispute.

-As for the locomotive, it was an eastbound train, and it rolled away east, so the power ended up past Lac Megantic, after separating (or being separated due to the stack fire).
 
I think that this sabotage, the keystone pipeline has been waiting for an accident like this to get it approved, all's it takes is someone to pull the pin and then bleed the air off of the cars to let them role, even after the train was inspected and was found to have no defects, this could only have happened by someone releasing the brakes from pulling the bleed rod on every rail car, unstoppable was unrealistic and not possible, if the train were under power the alerter would have shut down the engine and dynamite the brakes, yeah it was only a matter of time, but an accident like this would happen when the train was moving and a crew mistake or track defect. its not possible for 77 rail cars having brakes fail and then roll by chance, if the air brake system would fail like this, an like this accident would have happened to common freight trains long before, I dont think its a coincidence that an oil train just happened to blow up a town during the keystone xl pipeline debate.
So the pipeline promoters hoped blowing up a town would help get the pipeline built? Perhaps I misunderstood?
 
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locomotive running or not, if the brake pipe pressure drops from lack of air or separating, the cars emergency air applies.
 
locomotive running or not, if the brake pipe pressure drops from lack of air or separating, the cars emergency air applies.

And crude oil does not explode like that, so we can conclude this didn't actually happen.




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Crude oil would normally burn rather than explode. It can explode however with compression ignition in much the same way as diesel. so if the tankers were sealed strongly enough not to leak under pressure and they were pressurised by heat they could explode.

The news media however is always going to use the term explosion because its more dramatic. The causes and solutions to what happened need a proper inquiry. And Im sure they will get it.
 
And when that runs out (leaks out) the brakes release....

P.S. : I am not poo-poo-ing your conspiracy theory at all. The way I understand the world it is quite possible that this was a deliberate act, and I don't mean by some mythical boogiemen wearing turbans and hiding in caves, but rather the real criminals who ride around in limousines with $1,000 shoes on. But, from what few facts we currently have I do not see how to draw that conclusion right now.

Here is where I am getting my thinking though, the air brake line from the engine only charges the reservoir on each car, it has nothing to do with setting brakes except when pressure drops, the valve on the rail car release air from the reservoir applying the brakes, the only way air is let out of the brake cylinder is bleeding it manually unless the system is faulty and it leaks, because it happened to 77 individual cars with each individual system in improbable, I did hear a rumor at work today though that the engineer was arrested today which leaves another possibility that he bottled the air, preventing the brake pipe from dropping below 90 psi and preventing the brakes from activating in the first place.
 
Wow interesting. Sounds like MMA is in some deep world of shoot right now. Kinda saw that coming though. And why didn't they pay for the cleanup? Thats not right at all, they need to foot the bill.
 
They appeared to not have much money already. 4 million is a lot for a company not making large profits. If they have the Canadian properties in a separate corporation they might let it go to Canada's version of bankruptcy court. Most interstate / international corporations are incorporated in each separate government jurisdiction.

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Causes

locomotive running or not, if the brake pipe pressure drops from lack of air or separating, the cars emergency air applies.

Sorta.

The brakes are applied when there is a difference in air pressure between the train line and the reservoirs. If there is a small difference, a service application is made, if its a big difference an emergency application is made. If the air leaks off "slowly" in both the reservoir and the train line, then the difference isn't enough to put the train in emergency.

Other consideration.

The danger of bottling the air on a modern cut of cars is that the air brakes may have a "quick release" feature, where when the brakes are released air from the reservoir is vented into the train line to help build the pressure in the train line quicker and release the brakes faster. The problem is that when the air is bottled, if there has been a a flow of air in the train line, either releasing or charging, and the angle cock is closed, the air, being a "fluid" can "slosh" at one end of the train line or the other creating a pulse of air pressure. If I have a 4000 ft train line with the air flowing toward the engines because the brakes have been release and I suddenly clos the angle cock the air in the train line continues to move toward the engines due to momentum. That flow raises the pressure on the end the air is flowing towards. If that pressure builds enough that the air brakes on that car senses it as a "release" of the brakes (5-10 psi) the brakes on that car may release and trigger the quick release feature causing that car to dump its air into the train line, that increase in pressure causes the next car to see an increase in train line pressure and it dumps its air into the train line and so on until all the brakes are released on the cut.

If you consider that the once the engine was shut down the train more or less became a cut with the air bottled (it was a cut of equipment with pressure in the train line, the angle cocks closed on both ends and no air supply) the inadvertent release is a possibility.

Another option.

The engines were on the downhill end. The slack is bunched towards the engines. Enough handbrakes are set to hold the train where it is. The engines are being held by the independent brakes with no handbrakes on the engines. The sole running engine catches fire and is shut down. The independent brakes bleed off and the engines roll down hill stretching the slack. The handbrakes are just enough to hold the stationary train, but the momentum of the engines is enough of a bump to overcome the brakes and start the train moving, once the train starts moving the momentum is more than the limited handbrakes can stop and the train accelerates down hill. As the cars with the handbrakes set begin to heat up, the brakes are less effective and the cars accelerate more.

And an oil car can explode if its heated or compressed enough (that's how a diesel engine works). Plus since this was frac'd oil we don't know what was mixed with it to make it flow into the tank cars, it could be the additives were volatile enough to cause the explosion and accelerated the oil fire.

Lots of different things going on. There is enough room in there for lots of human, mechanical and procedural failures, the conspiracy theories are the least likely of anything.
 



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