Designing first layout, lots of questions!

[railfan]

Originally Posted by rdemattio91

I think I get it now. THe caboose ground throws are just that- a ground throw. There is no track associated with it, it is just a ground throw that I could hook to my custom line turnout so that I can manually switch the track, correct?

Yes.....correct. It is a small rugged self-contained mechanism.....hence it's affordable price.

[joed2323]

You got it right.
The ground throws are very affordable, roughly 2-3 bucks a peice. They make different caboose indutries ground throws.

The one i like are the 202s, they stay sprung when you flip it one direction or the other, keeps the switch points tight against the rail.

[rdemattio91]

Yeah turnouts are the easiest place for a train to de rail (enless u have super tight turns) so I am going to make sure I get the best stuff for my turnouts. I'll deff look into those ground throws to save some money!

Anyone else have some tips on the design? I am thinking of making the other 2 short sides 18 inches instead of 12.

[rdemattio91]

Well guys I tweeked it some more. Changes include:
24 Inches on the left and right, 18 inches on the top and bottom.
No more elevations
Staging yard on right side
I have included the radiuses (not a word? ) of the turns


Whatcha guys think?

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

Originally Posted by rdemattio91

Well guys I tweeked it some more. Changes include:
24 Inches on the left and right, 18 inches on the top and bottom.
No more elevations
Staging yard on right side
I have included the radiuses (not a word? ) of the turns


Whatcha guys think?

It seems you have not quite grasped the concept of staging. Buy John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation. Read it. Redesign the layout. No offense, but as it stands your layout is just a double track loop with some sidings. If 9x8 is the space you have, double track mainline just isn't going to be practical.

I'll clarify.

What's the purpose of the railroad? Because ostensibly you are aiming for more than just running the trains around in a loop. But the point of the railroad is to move goods from one point to the other. It's all in what section of the railroad you wish to model, be it a section of mainline or branch, or a terminus. The railroad exists to move goods from one customer to the other. And since it is wholly impractical to model even alot of the average railroad's customer base, that's where staging comes into play, to act as 'the rest' of the world. And a railroad isn't going to have just a loop of double track main and interchange with another railroad on a spur. That's why I don't think 8x9 is big enough for double track, unless you make the layout a double oval, hide one loop under the benchwork to act as staging, and then simply model a busy stretch on the topside with lots of meeting and passing. Now, Robert Schleicher has drawn a 8x9' double-deck track plan with mainline running as a significant feature, but the benchwoork for it is stupifyingly complicated and costs a fortune in plywood to build, and even then more than half the track is hidden.

Now, I'm not saying that a model railroad has to be 100% prototypical. Heaven knows my plans aren't. But I've built a plan similar in design to what you have here and the scope is not terribly great.

[rdemattio91]

Originally Posted by TheGloriousTachikoma

It seems you have not quite grasped the concept of staging. Buy John Armstrong's 'Track Planning for Realistic Operation. Read it. Redesign the layout. No offense, but as it stands your layout is just a double track loop with some sidings. If 9x8 is the space you have, double track mainline just isn't going to be practical.

I'll clarify.

What's the purpose of the railroad? Because ostensibly you are aiming for more than just running the trains around in a loop. But the point of the railroad is to move goods from one point to the other. It's all in what section of the railroad you wish to model, be it a section of mainline or branch, or a terminus. The railroad exists to move goods from one customer to the other. And since it is wholly impractical to model even alot of the average railroad's customer base, that's where staging comes into play, to act as 'the rest' of the world. And a railroad isn't going to have just a loop of double track main and interchange with another railroad on a spur. That's why I don't think 8x9 is big enough for double track, unless you make the layout a double oval, hide one loop under the benchwork to act as staging, and then simply model a busy stretch on the topside with lots of meeting and passing. Now, Robert Schleicher has drawn a 8x9' double-deck track plan with mainline running as a significant feature, but the benchwoork for it is stupifyingly complicated and costs a fortune in plywood to build, and even then more than half the track is hidden.

Now, I'm not saying that a model railroad has to be 100% prototypical. Heaven knows my plans aren't. But I've built a plan similar in design to what you have here and the scope is not terribly great.

I always thought staging was just a place to store the trains you werent running, I have that book but I can't get myself to read it because it seems like too much to take in for a noob.

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

Originally Posted by rdemattio91

I always thought staging was just a place to store the trains you werent running, I have that book but I can't get myself to read it because it seems like too much to take in for a noob.

It's alot to take in but it's the fundamentals of how railroads operate. It's like reading-up on how the internal combustion engine works before rebuilding an engine.

It comes down to a simple case of every carload has an origin and a destination and it's very rarely linear, it's like a tree mirrored at the base. Two industries right next to each other, one could be shipping a load to the next city, and the other shipping to the other side of the country. Staging represents the rest of the world that doesn't fit on the layout. That, or you can have an exposed interchange track that leads off layout, but staging is usually hidden because it's jarring to see parked trains out in the open, especially when that space can be used for scenery or other train-related things.


You should give that book another try. Maybe a little here and a little there, but it's fundamental. As I said, your layout has some big inherent flaws. One is that even if you hid the staging tracks on say, the outside of the main line behind some trees, it's still single ended and can only be entered or exited in one direction, and you still have a small loop of track.

[rdemattio91]

Originally Posted by TheGloriousTachikoma

It's alot to take in but it's the fundamentals of how railroads operate. It's like reading-up on how the internal combustion engine works before rebuilding an engine.

It comes down to a simple case of every carload has an origin and a destination and it's very rarely linear, it's like a tree mirrored at the base. Two industries right next to each other, one could be shipping a load to the next city, and the other shipping to the other side of the country. Staging represents the rest of the world that doesn't fit on the layout. That, or you can have an exposed interchange track that leads off layout, but staging is usually hidden because it's jarring to see parked trains out in the open, especially when that space can be used for scenery or other train-related things.


You should give that book another try. Maybe a little here and a little there, but it's fundamental. As I said, your layout has some big inherent flaws. One is that even if you hid the staging tracks on say, the outside of the main line behind some trees, it's still single ended and can only be entered or exited in one direction, and you still have a small loop of track.

I've started reading the book and I'm going to try and stick with it, got 20 pages in. I agree with alot of what your saying, but I don't think I can do alot of that with the space I have. I mean I have a 13x10 room, but I dont want a around the wall layout because I dont think I will be here very long- 1 to 2 years. I appreciate all the help, keep it coming. Eventually I will get something planned out here

[Iron Horseman]

Originally Posted by rdemattio91

Will the trains run over those well tho? I always figured u get what u pay for

Caboose brand ground throws are great! They look much better than those big honken Atlas things too.

[railfan]

Originally Posted by rdemattio91

I've started reading the book and I'm going to try and stick with it, got 20 pages in. I agree with alot of what your saying, but I don't think I can do alot of that with the space I have. I mean I have a 13x10 room, but I dont want a around the wall layout because I dont think I will be here very long- 1 to 2 years. I appreciate all the help, keep it coming. Eventually I will get something planned out here

I'm going to check out that book at the library and copy the good parts with pencil and paper. I need the $15 to buy more track.



Mike