Which DCC system with JMRI is best?

[tankist]

Originally Posted by Chugger

I can get started with it, then when the economics make sense I'll drop a bit more for an NCE system abd the Digitrax and be delegated to just track control and other automation.
Does that make sense?

doesn't make sence to me, this way you end up with two command stations (double the expense) and you only need one. on the digitrax side i only have the PR3 since all i need really is a loconet endpoint/interface.


the java hysteria i don't get, its not all that bad

[Chugger]

IH Man... very good insight about how water scales. At first I thought you meant all water scenes but then I realized you meant real water? I'm thinking more in the terms of a bladder on a sliding shelf with a slight grade that can move with a stepper motor, perhaps a harbor, and the bladder can be filler with fluid to allow the molder top of the bladder (expertly painted, somewhat translucent and lots of experimenting) to move just a bit. It could work, it could look like crap... I better remain focused on dcc for now.

[TrinityJayOne]

Originally Posted by Charles Smiley

So far I haven't had a infection in the 5 years that I stopped paying for virus update programs. I have 5 PCs networked together. Safety is more about behaviour and where you avoid going. Don't answer any Ugandan email telling you you inherited 5-million bucks Hurry - click here to reply and give us your account numbers....

Re: wireless but no internet, that is very doable. You would either have the PC hooked up to a wireless router (which is not connected to the internet) and the phone throttles connect wirelessly, or you set up your PC as a WAP (wireless access point) and the phone throttles connect directly to that.

I've fiddled around with my NCE system & JMRI a little bit via NCE's USB adaptor. One limitation it apparently has it that it can't send JMRI things like occupancy signals or any other form of feedback apart from announcing CVs while programming. As an example if you had JMRI controlling a turnout and were to manually switch it yourself, JMRI wouldn't know it happened. This is just what I've read in the documentation though, I've never tried it myself.

[Chugger]

I was not considering actual water, but more of a sliding bladder made with tedious detail. I'm better off if I keep focused on the task at hand.

[psychobeagle12]

@Charles Smiley:

JMRI requires Java. I wouldn't use Java on any computer that is important to you because of the serious security risks.

To sidetrack the conversation a bit, Java is not unsecure. There may have been a time that Java was unsecure but it is not anymore. I know this because I am a Java/C++/Assembly/C#/about 10 other languages programmer. Not bragging, just saying. Java gets a bad rap because it was designed with the web in mind and that is the direction that it has followed in recent years. Also, people hear the term "java virtual machine" and don't get it. Now you may also be a programmer, I won't pretend to know the answer to that and if you have a legitimate reason for thinking that Java is unsecure I wouldn't mind hearing it (I like to learn things I don't already know, just for the sake of knowing them!) and I would gladly discuss it with you. Sorry, I just like to stick up for Java. It isn't my favorite programming language but it is intuitive, faster than the old days, and pretty darn secure. Lastly, my rant is done but don't forget that Java can only be as secure as the computer that it is run on as with any other language that can connect to a network. IMHO, it is as much your job to keep a computer secure as it is Java's!!!

[Charles Smiley]

It's such a slow effect (even on a fast clock) that I'm wondering if anyone would notice it -- unless they sat there with their head in a chin-brace.

[Charles Smiley]

Back to Java... You might try this 'flag'.
web.com/software-development/java/news/432479/is-java-7-still-insecure-oracle-patch-doesnt-fix-underlying-vulnerability#

This is about Java - not Java-Script BTW.

Not to brag myself -- but I started 'coding' on PDP8s and PDP11s about 1972and still wrote control-system embedded code until about 2008.

A rule of thumb has long been this... Any coding language that makes coding easier for the coder is also easier to exploit. I did lots of coding for things used for national security purposes. It all had to be done in assembly language and/or built up in hardware in ASIC chips. Nothing from C++ to Java could touch assembly language for execution speed, compactness of code-space or difficulty to crack since it always appears to be unfamiliar and unstructured. Sometimes resembling techniques seemingly from a madman. You had to know everything about the internal structure of the specific processor used. Nothing was cloaked, varnished or insulated from the coder.

Coders grew to hate assembly language because if the original author dies, or quits, modifying someone elses code is a nightmare - hence harder for an outsider to crack too. Don't forget that Iran cracked the control code of military drones recently. I'm sure it was all coded in some higher-level structured language making it an easy target. They may have been using ADA or something (military approved) similar that made life too easy for code crackers.

Anyhow, that's how I remember it -- although 5 years away from it all could cloud the mind a bit.

[psychobeagle12]

I apologize if I offended you. I can see that your experience goes very far and runs much longer than mine (again, I did note that I wasn't sure regarding your programming experience!!!) Java is not the best language by any means but I merely meant to say that it has done a good job of keeping up with other languages over the past few years. Five years IS a long time after all and I know that this was about when I started to learn Java and back then it was low execution speeds that made people shy away from it, not security vulnerabilities. The article that you sited (if I have the correct one) actually references ONLY the JVM version 7 and NOT the version 6 or earlier; in fact, the article says that users should roll back to the earlier version to avoid the security issue. I also enjoy more machine-level programming more than Java programming but I think that Java today has some serious impact in the programming world. Again, I am sorry if I offended or upset you, that was not my intent. I was just curious about your reasoning and I appreciate you sharing with me!

[Charles Smiley]

It's just an interesting topic. There's no offence in software or 'crying in baseball'.

If you like machine-level coding stick with it. To most modern coders it has no appeal. They all want to operate in the glamorous GUI world. If you can do that, you have a big advantage over guys that can't write a simple real-time OS from scratch and live with K-bytes instead of M-bytes.

[Renegade1c]

Originally Posted by Chugger

so this is what I was thinking... for now, just to get started I look for a used Digitrax DCS50 Zepher, this is the older one with one less row of buttons. I can get started with it, then when the economics make sense I'll drop a bit more for an NCE system abd the Digitrax and be delegated to just track control and other automation. Does that make sense?

Has anyone ever seen nor heard of a layout with tidal water that moves with the tides?

One of the beauties of Digitrax is its upgradability. everything is based on loco net. It you find that you need more than the Dcs50 zephyr you can get a DB150 booster. The zephyr will be your command station and can program locos quite easily. You can use a rrcirkits loco buffer USB or PR3 to communicate between the Dcs 50 and your computer and ultimately with jmri to use your wireless throttles ( ie your android device). It is also nice because Digitrax is fully capable of signalling and feedback. The basis is loco net.

You don't need to use digitrax products necessarily ( I use rr Circuits for block detection and digitrax for signalling and turnout control and feedback) as there are many out there that use loco net. Team digital also has some very nice hardware solutions. These can all be used with jmri to control a layout.

I have implemented quite a bit of this on my previous layout found here.

Dick Bronson of Rrcirkits is also a very helpful resource when it comes to signalling, turnout control and block detection. All of which are loco net compatible.


If you have any more questions let me know!