Which DCC system with JMRI is best?

[Chugger]

This is the first of what will probably be a million questions. I'm building a layout that is extending 20 x 30 along three walls. I'm running two lines along the length and most of the build out of the layout is in the corners.

I've been researching DCC. My intent is to run the entire layout with a JMRI server and to use the JMRI throttle app for Android for my throttle controllers. The use of the Android app utilizes my existing home wireless network and eliminates the cost of IR or RF controllers. Everything I'm reading and understadning is that I can do just about everything imaginable with the computer, the JMRI application with hardware interface, and a command station. I do have a technical background, so the technology does make sense to me, But having never built or run one of these systems I just don't know what I don't know, yet. So my questions are this...

First, can I build and run with JMRI, a command station and android throttles on the home network? (avoiding the excessive cost and clunkiness of the large controller interfaces)

Second, what platform would you recommend? I've narrowed it down to Digitrax or NCE. Most of the advantages of the NCE seem to be related to the their Procab throttle. But with JMRI to do all of the programing, do you need an expensive throttle, say the digitrax DT402? Which platform would you recommend?

A DB150 for $150, JMRI USB adaptor $62, and I'm in business?

Promise, future posts will be shorter!
Thanks

[tankist]

I use NCE powercab command station with NCE-usb to run trains and Digitrax PR3 interface to operate turnouts. So my answer is both I like the nce cab more then digitrax one but still want loconet for turnout sensors and detection -imho best of both worlds. JMRI can easily use more then one interface.

Now just a word of caution. While I indeed can remotely operate a train from my tablet or smartphone it feels awkward . I still like my throttle and can't see android as replacement (although having a controller for guest is good in a pinch of course).

As you work on your JMRi project please post your panel design. I'm very curious to see others solution.

[bennyboots]

Originally Posted by Chugger

Second, what platform would you recommend? I've narrowed it down to Digitrax or NCE. Most of the advantages of the NCE seem to be related to the their Procab throttle. But with JMRI to do all of the programing, do you need an expensive throttle, say the digitrax DT402? Which platform would you recommend?

Keep in mind that the digitrax empire builder will not read back CV's to you on JMRI. This is very annoying when programming locomotives. NCE cab reads back CV's as well as the Digitrax super chief, not sure about the Zephyr.

I use a Locobuffer USB from RRcircuits with a Digitrax empire builder. I am going to get a Sprogg II for programing locomotives though as my computer is upstairs.

If you want to program decoders on you layout it's best to look into making a programming track where you can isolate the locomotive you want to program. That means that you will want the computer you are using to be located close to your layout. That was the problem I ran into where it just didn't make sense to relocate my desktop computer down to the basement. So I use the digitrax throttle to run trains on the layout downstairs and bring my locomotives upstairs to a programming track on my desk to work on them. If you had a laptop that you could keep with your layout permanently would be your best option because you need to set up the computer interface and power up the layout before your WiThrottle will work. It just became a pain for me because I don't like leaving my layout connected to the house circuit when I'm not running trains (I'm paranoid about a lightning surge or brownout frying all the decoders that are sitting on the rails at the time).

JMRI has a users forum on yahoo groups that gets a lot of support from the designers and is a great place to bounce questions off the experts.

[tankist]

Good point about programing locos, this happens on NCE side for me.
But as far as dedicated PC its really not an issue, anything within past 8 years will run jmri (my dedicated jmri PC is from 2003). Look at your local Craigslist for a free old computer or laptop or netbook.

[Charles Smiley]

JMRI requires Java. I wouldn't use Java on any computer that is important to you because of the serious security risks. If you can dedicate an older junk PC just to run trains and keep it off-line that would be OK. But don't use the same PC with your bank records, personal items and email. All the patches for Java have not worked.

[bennyboots]

Originally Posted by Charles Smiley

JMRI requires Java. I wouldn't use Java on any computer that is important to you because of the serious security risks. If you can dedicate an older junk PC just to run trains and keep it off-line that would be OK. But don't use the same PC with your bank records, personal items and email. All the patches for Java have not worked.

I think you still need have your computer online for the WiFi network that WiThrottle requires. Not 100% sure though. If your computer is connected to your modem which enables the use of WiThrottle are you still at risk?

[Charles Smiley]

That might be OK. It's opening email with links to bogus places (which you never know until too late) and general net surfing and clicking on things that has to be avoided. Wifi has it's own issues but that can be improved by the encryption setings.

So far I haven't had a infection in the 5 years that I stopped paying for virus update programs. I have 5 PCs networked together. Safety is more about behaviour and where you avoid going. Don't answer any Ugandan email telling you you inherited 5-million bucks Hurry - click here to reply and give us your account numbers....

[Chugger]

Lots of good information. Clearly it seems I should use an NCE for running the loco's... and the Digitrax for switches etc. I'm doing this on a slim dime so I'll keep an eye out for an NCE system.
Regarding the computer, I am fortunate enough to have a computer in the middle of the room where my layout is, And the java issue is something to consider. I do have a low end server piece of hardware that can run JMRI on so I'll give that consideration.
So I guess I I need to save my pennies, the NCE Power Pro is more expensive than Digitrax but seems worth the cost.

[Chugger]

so this is what I was thinking... for now, just to get started I look for a used Digitrax DCS50 Zepher, this is the older one with one less row of buttons. I can get started with it, then when the economics make sense I'll drop a bit more for an NCE system abd the Digitrax and be delegated to just track control and other automation. Does that make sense?

Has anyone ever seen nor heard of a layout with tidal water that moves with the tides?

[Iron Horseman]

Originally Posted by Chugger

Has anyone ever seen nor heard of a layout with tidal water that moves with the tides?

No. I think the real problem is that water doesn't scale. I'm sure you have seen navy movies where they cut back to show a ship and one can immediately tell it is a model because the waves are just wrong. This is more true the smaller scale gets. Water falls, drips, splashes, and flows in 1:1 scale regardless. People have tried adding soap or other softening agents to help but the bottom line is that it looks really goofy.

On the other hand, if one is not talking about real water but perhaps a stationary "body of water" on hydraulic lifts that just rises and falls next to a dock so it looks like the tide is coming in and going out, you might be on to something that is publishable in one of the MR magazines. I would think the hard part isn't the surface of the water but getting the right amount of "wetness" showing on the docks/retaining walls/shores next to the water.