Coal mine trams

[P&LE]

Gentlemen,

Not sure if this is the proper part of the forum to pose this question, if not, please let me know where I should place this post.

I'm researching and planning to model the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie RR, in western PA (possibly on a fictional/freelanced branchline), in 1952. According to my research, a large part of the freight traffic will be coal, some of it from online mines.

While reading on another website about prototype RRs, I came across this post

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=77730


If you read the posts and follow the links to articles, it makes mention of a "tramway" being used to carry coal from a mine, across a river/creek, to a loading tipple on the railroad.

Was this common? Was it common in PA? If so, was it still done in 1952?

I assume such a tramway would be some very narrow gauge, 2ft or less?

How would such a tramway "train" be powered?

This could be a great addition to a model railroad, especially if it could be made operational.

I just want to make sure that it would be prototypical for the era and locale that I've chosen.

Thanks for any input.

MPB

[grande man]

Originally Posted by P&LE

Was this common? Was it common in PA? If so, was it still done in 1952?

I assume such a tramway would be some very narrow gauge, 2ft or less?

How would such a tramway "train" be powered?

This could be a great addition to a model railroad, especially if it could be made operational.

I just want to make sure that it would be prototypical for the era and locale that I've chosen.

Thanks for any input.

MPB

Many coal mines did use narrow gauge tramways to transport coal from the various mine entries to a tipple on the main railroad that served the mine. To determine if they were in use for a specific mine during a specific time frame, I'd suggest you research the site in question. Your state mining authorities (Dept of Industrial Relations, Mine Safety, etc) and local library (public and university) archives are great sources of information. If you live close the the area of interest, I'd highly recommend that you get out an meet some of the local folks and ask questions about their local mines. You may be surprised at what you'll learn. I will tell you, by the 1950s, belt (conveyor) haulage was really gaining acceptance.

As an example, here is a post I did here a few years back. I have included it because it highlights my statements above and has photos of mining tramways at a local mine. The events that led up to the linked post were a wonderful experience for everyone involved and history was remembered (preserved). If I were modeling that area, I'd have a pretty good idea of where to start... http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/f...t=Lehigh+Mines

[P&LE]

Thanks Grande,

I am looking forward to the research, one of my favorite parts of the hobby, and now I have some ideas on where to start. My girlfriend just LOVES that I spend at least 2 hours a night on the computer researching old railroads, LOL. Hey, at least it keeps me home and not at bars, right? LOL.

Unfortunately I don't live in the area of interest, I'm about 2 hours + away, but we make road trips there some weekends for other activities. I'll try to work in some archeology on our next trip, after some initial online research to point me in the right direction.

Great thread on the Lehigh Mines, I just read the whole thing. I could spend (I DO spend, lol) hours looking at those kind of old photos.

MPB

[railfan]

I love to read about, and go exploring for old abandoned mines and railroad stuff. These links were very interesting to see. I spent many years exploring lost backroads and old uranium and other mines in the vast back country canyons and mountains of utah.

Also wandered deep into death valley california three times and saw amazing ancient (before 1900) still standing cable trams for hauling gold/silver ore....not to mention the high altitude mining ruins with narrow gauge ore hauling remnants in western colorado in the vicinity of telluride, silverton, and ouray.

These were real men doing difficult back-breaking labor in the wilderness.....what a different time it was.

Best of luck with P&LE and I will be following the progress.

Mike

[otiscnj]

Many of the mines or breakers in eastern PA still had narrow gage 'railroads' within their properties in the 1950's. Not sure about western PA, however.

[P&LE]

otiscnj,

Thanks for that info, I've been pouring through coal mining history stuff and I'm finding a lot of mention of trams, but nothing specifically about western PA.

Do you know of any websites that chronicle, hopefully with pics, the trams you're referring to in eastern PA?

Thanks.

PLE

[grande man]

Originally Posted by P&LE

otiscnj,

Thanks for that info, I've been pouring through coal mining history stuff and I'm finding a lot of mention of trams, but nothing specifically about western PA.

Do you know of any websites that chronicle, hopefully with pics, the trams you're referring to in eastern PA?

Thanks.

PLE

A few links... BTW, I met Scott Herring, aka the coal man, alongside old GM&O trackage in New Albany, Ms taking photos a few years back. Scott has done great work photo documenting coal mining operations for the past 40 years! Be sure to look thru his images while you're visiting the site. Here is his website links page.

http://www.thelastanthracitephotogra...te-coal-Q4.php


Here is another link that may help. http://www.coalcampusa.com/westpa/index.html

[HF1]

I came across this thread and thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents worth - I was born and raised in Western PA (Washington County) and grew up surrounded by the Coal Mining and Steel making industries in that area.

One Mine that comes that comes to mind was the Old Marianna Coal Company, in the town of the same name, located south of US Route 40(National Road),about 8 miles east of Washington, PA.
This Mine, and a Sister Mine located to the north at Cokeburg, PA, used a overhead tram system that transported Mine tailings up from the Coal Washer area, on a elevated series of cables and buckets up and across the surrounding countryside via two 120' steel towers that were spaced about a 1/2 mile apart. The 'cable car' set up would 'bucket' the tailings and slag to a slag dump usually on a hill opposite the Mine area.
The Steel Towers were tall enough to be mistaken for Radio Antenna Towers and were painted in the familar Aviation Orange and White striping to warn off local flyers and commercial aircraft.
These style of tramways were in use into the late 60's and ceased operation after the mining industry underwent many changes and financial challenges at that time.

I was fortunate enough to be able to visit back in that area a few years ago and while the mine physical plants are for the most part, long gone, there are still a few disinegrating structures that can be found.
The tramways were torn down in the early 70's for obvious liability reasons.

Bethleham Mining and Consol Energy, the primary Coal producer in the region now, still has mines in the area that are reopened and do to the advent of modern mining operations, the tram style coal loaders are all but gone.

The Bethleham Mines and some of the Mathies Coal Company Mines , had 'locomotive driven' trams that ran from deep within the mine and would run right out of the side of the hill into the daylight under catenary on narrow guage trackage.
The most popular Miing operations that are probably the most familiar are those of the Montour (Former Pittsburgh Coal Co.) Mines located along the now noted and documented Montour RR - a Standard Guage operation that ran from just north of Corapolis, PA along the Ohio River (Interchanged with the P&LE and PRR Panhandle) and meandered thru the hills of Western PA to serve a dozen or so Mines along the route and terminating in Allegheny County at an interchange point with the N&W(nee, Ex-W&LE, Ex Wabash and now currently the new W&LE)in the Baldwin Hills area of South Pittsburgh, serving the Steel mills in that area along the Monogehela River and points south and west to Morgantown,W.VA via connections with the B&O and WM.
My Uncle was a Miner at the Henderson Coal Co. mine(Pittsburgh Coal Co.)owned by the Montour Mining Co. and served by the railroad bearing its name.

many of the mines on the Montour RR were 'Gravity' or Tipple Mines running straight out of the hill side to a scrubbing plant and sifter and crusher, then directly to the coal trains waiting below.

[derfatdutchman]

In the anthracite region alot of the trackage was 30" inch guage. At the Wanamie mine in the northern anthracite field, steam "lokies" hauling wood mine cars lasted into the early 70's. Check out www.undergroundminers.com for photos of steam operatons at the Wanamie.