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Thread: Help Please....design a dbl-deck layout in its own Hand-House shed

  1. #41
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    Not exactly sure of what you are saying?


    Yes, was a bit clear as mud wasn't it. What I was meaning (and the main reason for that long train video from the club, and the layout you've shown as an example) it's possible to have more than one mainline without necessarily going to having them built on seperate shelves, accessed by a helix. They can still be at different levels but have interchanges with each at common yards. With a smaller layout of course, you will be restricted to one, or maybe two such interchanges. You can still, as at my club, use a helix to get a little more elevation between the mainlines if you wish. Many of those scenes on that video are less than 18" wide.

    The spiral's mountain is hollow shell, but that still has to be supported by framing and that is what creates the difficlties with tunnels and tracks underneath. In the case with the club's one, the tunnels beneath were an afterthought, many years after it was built, so there was no forward planning involved. One track has a dip in it to clear a support, which can and does at times create uncoupling issues in a spot which is hard to get to. If it had been built originally from the bottom up, the top exposed track's supports would have been properly placed.
    CONVICTED SERIAL KIDDER

    I'm lost. I've gone to look for me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Horseman View Post
    .... I made the lower (height 0") loop of 22" radius so that it would not be directly under the upper (height 4"0) loop, and could be better seen. Personally, I don't like the double separate loop concept at all (especially here were the cross between the two is really one way,
    Attachment 61885
    What if?
    What if those 2 loops were at the same height? Would there be enough space between the tracks (24" & 22" radius) for 2 trains to pass one another,...particularly with the 2 passing in opposite directions?,...and particularly if there some longer passenger cars and/or articulated steam locos? What sort of track separation would be required in that case? Or could there be a 22 & 25 combo?

    I use to like to see 2 trains run at different speeds in the same direction on these two parallel tracks on my Central Midland layout,...or 2 trains passing in different directions on these lines,...
    Here is how Eric did a similar two tracks around his turntable scene on the Central Midland...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is how I did it on my Central Midland..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by beiland; 06-11-2017 at 08:55 PM.

  3. #43
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    Dec 2011
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    Colorado, Kansas, and servicing all points between
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    Quote Originally Posted by beiland View Post
    What if?
    What if those 2 loops were at the same height? Would there be enough space between the tracks (24" & 22" radius) for 2 trains to pass one another,...particularly with the 2 passing in opposite directions?,...and particularly if there some longer passenger cars and/or articulated steam locos? What sort of track separation would be required in that case? Or could there be a 22 & 25 combo?
    Not really, particularly no with long equipment. 22 / 25 would work. As I recall that is how the book version of the Central Midland does it. They have two curve sets of 22" radius with a 3" leader on the outside track (which is essentially a 25").

    On the other hand as it turns out closer examination of the Lone Pine & Thonopha seems it is a much better design for your space. I didn't realize when I posted earlier that it was really a loop to loop. I futzed around with it for a while today. Should have left more out but once again just wanted to get the idea of how it would fit. I got the elevation of the branch track reversed - It would never work how I have it. The front "town" needs to be down with the branch bridged over it. And of course one can easily do better with curved turnouts, especially with the entrance to the yard. In the end very cluttered.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is nothing in this layout for having trains passing same direction side by side.
    Last edited by Iron Horseman; 06-11-2017 at 09:21 PM.

  4. #44
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    Wow, its beginning to look like my original ideas might just be possible.

    BTW....
    Quote Originally Posted by beiland View Post
    I am currently hosting a similar discussion over on this 'blog', and as it turns out the designer of the Anon & Muss RR has joined the discussion....

    I have ask him to clarify that track configuration at the head of the peninsula,...just in case we are missing something in the 'interpretation'.
    This was his reply:
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Michell
    It's easiest to explain looking at the schematic. You are correct in realizing the tracks on the center peninsula blob are directly over each other. Basically the black lines represent the lower level and the red lines represent the middle level. Both are climbing upward in a clockwise direction. (Blue lines are an upper level branch.)

    I don't have access to the original article and drawings at the moment, but hopefully there was a profile that showed elevations and grades. If not, there are small numbers (unhighlighted) on the main drawing that show the track elevations. For example, just to the left of the box marked "main controls" at the end of the peninsula, the numbers show track elevations of 2" and 6". Elsewhere you'll find that same 4" separation between track levels thoughout the plan.
    Don Mitchell

  5. #45
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    There was also another gentleman in that forum blog that offered this 'quicky sketch'
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by beiland; 06-11-2017 at 09:54 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by beiland View Post
    Wow, its beginning to look like my original ideas might just be possible.
    Or some semblance there of. Look close at the drawings. Both the one I threw out and the one from the other discussion ended up with an isle of only 16" (off the upper right of the center blob). That is tight even for a single person operation.

    I'm thinking it might be a good idea to move the stub ended yard to the center area and eliminate the blob loop on it.

  7. #47
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    I agree that 16" is too tight.

    I'm wondering if the peninsula shape could be offset from direct center and leaning over a bit more to the 'thinner side' on the left, opposite side from the yard?
    Plus, as you mentioned a little earlier the use of some dbl-curve turnouts might help condense the yard,...I have a number of such turnouts.

  8. #48
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    Default Shelf Brackets

    If I can find shelf brackets something like these, or perhaps have some made to my specs,

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I could utilize them under that whole side of the layout where the turntable and yard scene is. Rather the using the 2' foam sub-roadbed in that area, just utilize 5/8 or 3/4 plywood sub-roadbed attached to those shelf brackets. Why?

    Because now my sub-roadbed is at a very minimum thickness that allows tracks underneath it at a minimum drop in height. And those bracket designs (especially if modified a little) allow for some staging track space and mounting of, in that triangular area of the bracket,...snug up under the main track level. I'd be willing to bet I could get 4-5 closely spaced stagging tracks under there?

    There is another area where i might want to consider plywood sub-roadbed in lieu of thick foam. At the head of that peninsula blob where the Anon & Muss trackplan called for one of its loops to be located over the other, I would need for that one lower loop to dive down under the upper one. It would be advantageous for the upper sub-roadbed to be a minimum thickness there also.

    ...just thinking
    Last edited by beiland; 06-20-2017 at 09:22 AM. Reason: grammer

  9. #49
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    Default Helix Link & Vertical Clearance for Modern Dbl-stack Container Cars, Auto Carriers

    Quote Originally Posted by beiland View Post
    ..excerpt
    Helix
    I'm imagining the donut shaped helix housed inside a short flat box like structure built of square tube aluminum tubes that can be bolted up to rear external face of my metal shed (to the studs of the shed), and with two 'legs' at its outer edges. I will be able to access the inner hollow of the helix from up underneath. Naturally the box structure that houses the helix will have metal sheeting covering it just like the shed itself. I have all of this alum metal already, and chose to utilize light weight alum rather than heavier and rot prone wood-frame construction.

    I am imagining that the lower entrance to the helix will be from a track that is already rising in grade from the blob/head portion of peninsula (in order to pass over other tracks at the root of the peninsula)....so one less level required of the helix itself. It will then rise up to the upper level and enter back into the layout room in a straight shot down the long edge of the shed/layout.
    I'm off on another tangent discussion at the moment,...building a Helix with PVC pipe tubing as the roadbed
    http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/f...-with-PVC-Pipe

    Height of modern freight cars?
    With considerations to the helix discussion, and that of any tunnels on a layout, what is the vertical clearance (top of the rail to top of the freight car) that must be provided to allow running these modern freight cars?
    (sorry, my cars are all in stowage at the moment so don't have any to measure)

  10. Default

    One of my criteria is always, do I have the skill to build what I've actually designed? If not, then time for a rethinking of things. The people who are members of this forum can be counted on for plenty of ideas. There are some interesting designs posted in this thread. The thing is that you don't want to 'bite off more than you can chew.'

    Got a slightly different question-any ventilation to your shed? Just thinking it could get warm or cold at times. Best of luck!

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