Running Bear's Coffee Shop LXIV

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Boris

Beach Bum
Joe .... I'm glad the surgery went well and you are off to a good start ! ... You are the best one here to ask this question. .... Amtrak acquired the PRR Metroliners. ... I read they were considered to be unreliable, and Amtrak decided to operate locomotive-hauled passenger trains instead of the electric multiple unit Metroliners. Amtrak did purchase hundreds of Amfleet cars which were basically unpowered Metroliner cars. ...... My question is why were they not reliable? ..... It seems to me electrical equipment should be durable if designed right. ..... Thanks.

Metroliner1968_zpsanf29ufj.jpg

The Metroliner made it's first in service trip i 1968, and remained in "Metroliner " service until maybe 1982, when there were sufficient AM7s and Amfleet coaches available to change over to Locomotive powered trains. That's a lot of train miles for a 61 car fleet with an average of 56 cars available on a daily basis. The fleet included 10 Parlor Cars (Metro Club), 20 Snack bar Coaches, and 31 Coaches. After the "Metroliner" cars were booted off of main line service, they were re branded "Capital Liners", and placed in service on the Philadelphia - Harrisburg route, or recondigured as cab cars for Mid West and San Diegian service.

The biggest shortcoming was the apparent incompatibility of Westinghouse manufactured components with electrical components manufactured by GE. About half the fleet was GE the rest Westinghouse.

One must keep in mind that one of the goals the PRR had was to eliminate locomotive hauled trains in favor of MU trains in order to eliminate the Fireman position on passenger trains. Locomotive hauled trains required the use of a fireman, but there was an exemption for electric MU trains. The Department of Commerce (This was a pre DOT era), did not wish to favor one manufacturer of electrical equipment over another. The project was a rush job, in that it was thrown together as a "Demonstration Project" with limited Federal Funding, and there was little advance training for mechanical and operating personnel, which of course required learning by the seat of one's pants.

By 1982, Amtrak had taken over all T&E employees in Amtrak service on the NEC, and the new Labor agreements eliminated the fireman's position, thus nullifying the need for MU equipment. MUs historically do not work all that well in high speed service, and are limited in consist length. The Metroliners were limited to 6 cars, AM7 powered trains were usually seven or eight cars.

Considering that ex Metroliner Cab cars are still in service on the NEC, and other corridors, one cannot consider the Metroliner a failure. The lack of success attributed to the program came from different factions seeking diverse goals, rather than a concentrated effort in developing a viable high speed, long distance, train system. Some of the same ills adversely affected the Acela program, however, ultimately the Acela developed into a successful and popular premium service.

The Metroliner is a direct descendant of the Budd Pioneer III car body, first developed in the mid 1950s. Amfleet cars were also descendants of the Pioneer III, as were the Budd built MU cars used by SEPTA. (PRR/RDG). Initially, back in the mid 1970s, when the Amfleet coaches first began arriving, they were frequently referred to as "Metro Shells" In fact, the Metroliner Mechanical Group, was interested in modifying Amfleet coaches for use in Metroliner consists, to increase capacity, without further complicating mechanical issues. Amtrak was by this point not interested in further MU development, and was more interested in developing a high speed locomotive hauled train.
 
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GarryCBQ

Well-Known Member
Joe. Thanks for the lengthy discussion about Metroliners. It is very interesting to me. Now we know why there was no window on the fireman side and other information.
 
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Trussrod

Well-Known Member
Good evening Gandy Dancers and Spike Drivers,

Hi Flo & Francine, you ladies sure stay busy here at Jeffreys' Dinner! How about a large bowl of Chili & Beans with some beef and Colby & Jack cheese. Thanks, no coffee, I think I'll just have water.

The temperature was about 65* with a slight breeze, I'd say and very comfortable with some very large Cumulus Clouds earlier.

I've been working on my Craftsman tractor trying to get it running again and found out last week that the armature shaft in the starter had a lot of play to it and was the reason the ring gear on the engine chewed up the Nylon gear on the starter. So I found a place on eBay that had them for $36.00 and free shipping so I ordered the one I thought was correct. Well it turned out that while it looked the same as the one that was bad there is a slight difference and it couldn't get it to fit into position properly, I should have ordered the same one like was on there, I just figured this new one was an improved design. So now I have to reorder and send this one back. Oh, well.

Then around 5:00 Pm I decided to mow the front yard which is half weeds and grass which had gone to seed, which is ok but it had gotten to be about 2ft. tall. I used the rear catcher bag to get most of the weeds which I mowed down first and then used the mulching feature on the heavy duty lawn mower and slowly worked my way through the tall grass growth to hopefully get more to sprout. I cut and dumped two catcher bags of weeds down front in amongust the other weeds and finally finished mowing the tall grass at around 8:00 Pm. God, were my leg muscles tired after that.


Say Joe/Borris: I'm very glad to hear the surgery went well for you as well as hearing you've got feeling back in your hand, fingers and arm! It's good to see you posting again.

I also like the info you posted in answer to Garrys' question about the Metro Liners. The incompatibility between Westinghoue electrical components and GE is very interesting too. I would have thought there must have been some standards set, but evidently not. I'll bet that was a real headache at times!


Greg: Yeah, I'd say you've been found out alright! Poor fellow.
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
Mid 50s this morning in King George, VA. Too much chance of T storms today so I guess I'll drive the truck to work.
No signs of my cat this morning. Still have no idea what was troubling him. Lots of speculation, from poisoning and parasites to snake bite.
 

bnsf971

Gomez Addams
Staff member
Good morning. It's cloudy and 57, headed for 83.
Today is the first day I haven't dreaded going to work in several years.
 

santafewillie

Same Ol' Buzzard
Good Morning All. It's 66° and overcast this morning. Chance of rain Friday after sunset. Had part of the yard dry out enough to commence mowing yesterday. Maybe got 1/3 acre done. More today after the grocery trek. Septic tanks. I have to pump mine after any major rain (more than 3"), so I have a submersible pump in the tank at all times. Only had to have the solids pumped out once in 35 years.
Out in the train shed, I continued to work on details and scenery. Problem is that I start to run trains while waiting for paint or glue to dry and forget to go back for an hour or so. Now I have two days of "other stuff" to do (it's dry outside) and probably won't get back to it for a while.

Joe - Good news on the surgery. Good luck on the recovery. Sounds like you're off to a good start.
Johnny -
You're a good neighbor, Willie.
Just trying to help keep him on a straight track. His dad is incarcerated...long story.
Garry - Another sweet photo.
Toot - Video's way too long for me to watch! Probably good though.
Sherrel - Best wishes on the outcome of the procedure.
Terry -
We all have guns.
Must be a really tough neighborhood to work in! It does sound like karma is beginning to work in your direction for a change.
Greg - Been there once when my wife came out to the train shed when my out of town sister visited. No shoes yet (that I know of). That's too bad that the felines up there behave that way. I guess that we're lucky that there are more easily available meals around here. Regarding the "kitties'...all of my cats and dogs have been "drop-offs". Folks do have a habit of driving up deserted country roads and dropping them off near the first house. Sad!

Well, everybody have a terrific day.

Willie
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
Since I got my notice from the state to get my septic tank pumped out, I did some reading about them. I didn't know there was a filter in them to keep solids from getting to the drain field. If the filter gets clogged, it will cause the tank to back up. Sorta like your sink drains. There are three levels of stuff in the tank. Bottom is the solids, middle is liquid and top is foam scum. There are pipes that extend down into the liquid level, below the scum that lets the liquid drain to the drain field. The filters are in these pipes. Your first sign of problems are air or gas bubbling up through your lawn over the tank. The second sign is soggy lawn over the tank. You have a major problem at that point.
 

Boris

Beach Bum
Good morning, y'all. 51°F, cloudy and wet outside. I still have a little tenderness where the incisions are, (were?). My elbow is still supported by an ace bandage, which stays in place until Saturday. That means showering with my right arm in a garbage bag.

Louis: Looks like Ubaldo Jiminez found his grove last night.

Terry: That's gotta be a good feeling, eh?

Garry: There are a million stories about the Metroliner program, and a ton of reasons why it could have done better, but when one considers the time frame in which it was implemented, it was successful beyond comprehension and intent. Indirectly, the Metroliner was a factor in the death of Eastern Airlines, as the reliability diverted passengers from Eastern's Crown Jewel, the LaGuardia to National Shuttle.
 

Raincoat2

Well-Known Member
Good morning, everyone. 66 degrees here in SW MO. Today starts 3 days of rain and storms, predicting 3-5 inches of rain over three days, and possible local flooding.

Curt - thanks for those weathering tips. It's a help to new guys like me.
Terry - Hooray for you!! We'll hope the person who takes the previous supervisor's place has a whole lot better people-skills than the last guy. Whaddya wanna bet the last guy gets hired to a higher position someplace else?

Took yesterday afternoon off from work. Ran to the LHS and bought some trucks and couplers to fix a few old cars I bought at the last train show. Then did some outdoor work. Last night I continued laying roadbed and track and getting an idea how the town will look. Will post a photo soon.

See ya later. Have a good day, everyone.
 

Bruette

Well-Known Member
Louis: Looks like Ubaldo Jiminez found his grove last night.

If Jimenez can consistently get ahead in the count he is one of the toughest pitchers in MLB to hit. He has the best late movement of any pitcher on our staff and has to be in the top 10 in MLB for late movement. It all comes down to his control. His delivery is what worries me, too many moving parts, but he is too old to change now.

If Tillman can come back strong we could have 5 top half of the rotation starters because Miley has been showing signs he is ready to go to the next level. Add to that the couple of great arms in triple A and we could be talking about starting pitching as a strength!!!
 

montanan

Whiskey Merchant
Good morning. A cool start to the day at 32 degrees without a cloud in the sky.

Greg - Sounds like you've been busted.

Terry - Is it safe to assume that the service manager is no longer employed where you work ??????

Joe - Thanks for the explanation. Although I live a long distance from the east cosst, I have always been interested in the passenger service in the NEC. I sure appreciate you knowledge and your posts. Glad the surgery is successful.

Ken in VA - I had never heard about a state mandating how ofter a septic system has to be pumped. We are also on a septic system, one that is really too large. When we built out home, I needed to meet VA standards. They figured that out home would have 6 bedrooms and three baths and I had to put in a 2,000 septic tank, double the standard size. We do have three baths, but there we only had two children. The extra bedrooms were for guests. Our kids are now grown and out on their own. In the 40 years we have lived here, we have pumped the septic tank twice. We had it checked late last summer and will probably have it pumped for the third time this summer. With such a large tank and drain field and only two full time residents, the use is way below capacity. Hope you find out where your furry buddy went.

The phones are starting to get busy and I am alone for a while so I better get to work.

Later,
 

GarryCBQ

Well-Known Member
Garry: There are a million stories about the Metroliner program, and a ton of reasons why it could have done better, but when one considers the time frame in which it was implemented, it was successful beyond comprehension and intent. Indirectly, the Metroliner was a factor in the death of Eastern Airlines, as the reliability diverted passengers from Eastern's Crown Jewel, the LaGuardia to National Shuttle.


Joe.... Again I appreciate your sharing your insights about Metroliners. Sounds like you do not agree with what I read about them not being reliable. I wondered about that myself because electrical equipment should be reliable.

I recall riding on the PRR between Philadelphia and New York and also Atlantic City when I was a kid in the 1950's. I believe it was 1920's era coaches and GG1's. Our family went to Philadelphia from Chicago and returned on the Broadway limited. ....

I think Walthers had models of the Metroliners, but I'm not sure. I would have paid attention if I modeled that region of the country.

Shares of Railroad stocks are doing well today. CSX is up $3.00 per share right now.
 




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