LED flexible lighting strips to illumnate a layout?

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beiland

Well-Known Member
Nowadays I'm wondering if you can really determine where they are made? And perhaps the LEDs themselves are from China, then assembled here, who knows??

I recently had a filter/dryer unit on my AC fail prematurely. Its labeled made in USA, but I have serious doubts, as it was so poorly primed (not at all). And the original company was recently acquired by another company that seems only interested in profit,....outsource it to China or India.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
Nowadays I'm wondering if you can really determine where they are made? And perhaps the LEDs themselves are from China, then assembled here, who knows??

I recently had a filter/dryer unit on my AC fail prematurely. Its labeled made in USA, but I have serious doubts, as it was so poorly primed (not at all). And the original company was recently acquired by another company that seems only interested in profit,....outsource it to China or India.
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
I'm still sold on the idea, just really pissed that these are dying, especially with the very low hours on them.

I believe the fact these being encapsulated may have something to do with it. Trapping heat in, with no air flow. Not that these get very warm, but it could be a possibility. Frankly, it probable is more likely another example of cheap Chinese junk! This stuff should not fail, there is nothing to them, it's not some fancy circuit. You can't really 'fix' these since they are surrounded by that silicone material. You really can't even try to solder to them (at least not easily).

I thought about the other version with no protection (open air), but I was worried about hitting the strips somehow with a tool or anything causing a problem. This just seemed to make better sense.
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
For kicks & giggles (thou more kicks than goggles), I just went and checked the lighting.
The top row with the larger LED's is almost complete OUT. There are only 7 sets that are still on. The smaller LED's in the bottom strips (there are two) four sets are out on one and only one set out on the other. The ones that are out appear to be what was out last year.
Mind you I might of turned these on once fro 5 minutes in that time period. They are dying from non use. :confused: I have to assume it's that diode or resister in each 'trio' that is the culprit unless someone else has a better idea.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
I'm still sold on the idea, just really pissed that these are dying, especially with the very low hours on them.

I believe the fact these being encapsulated may have something to do with it. Trapping heat in, with no air flow. Not that these get very warm, but it could be a possibility. Frankly, it probable is more likely another example of cheap Chinese junk! This stuff should not fail, there is nothing to them, it's not some fancy circuit. You can't really 'fix' these since they are surrounded by that silicone material. You really can't even try to solder to them (at least not easily).

I thought about the other version with no protection (open air), but I was worried about hitting the strips somehow with a tool or anything causing a problem. This just seemed to make better sense.

Encapsulated? Perhaps I need to read more to see the varieties.

Did you see this link I made?
On another forum that I was just begining to read about LED's I saw this link to an overview of them. I thought the explaintion was well done (better than some US companies), but then I took notice it was a Chinese company's web presence?

[url]https://www.saving-star.com/smd-led-comparison[/URL]
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
When I read your opening posting (and just reread it) I got the idea that you recognized the Chinese product rather suspiciously, and might not have purchased it?


Though I'm surely not the first to think about this, I though a thread on the subject would be worth while.

I needed lighting under my layout for wiring and I got tired of using a florescent trouble light to do the job. I thought about fluorescent tubes, but ruled those out as did with CCFL's due to size, heat, and the number that would be needed for even lighting. The only other choice is LED's, but the typical enclosure or the LED "bulb" gets me back to the above (without the heat issue). Then there is the cost.

One point I want to make;
I ruled out Xmas tree light strings and those awful looking "rope lights". I spent too much time and money on my layout to degrade it by going cheap.

Some preliminary details are needed. The most common SMD's (Surface Mount Device) used for these strips are the 3528 and the 5050. A comparison between the two is here;
http://www.ledlightsworld.com/page.html?id=32
http://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html

The issue of color temperature is here which is a huge issue with LED's;
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/lighting/resources/articles/understanding-the-color-white.html

There is also light output in lumen's which is not always listed. Something I consider the most important spec other than temperature;
http://www.colorkinetics.com/support/whitepapers/Evaluating_Light_Output.pdf

To make matters worse, there is a issue of "binning" due to the inconsistancy of mass production of LED's;
http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/lighting/resources/articles/decoding-led-bin-labels.html

Now, if I haven't scared you away or confused the hell out of you, read on.
I knew of these "strips", but never looked into them. Doing some preliminary searches brought me to everyones favorite eBay. Searching there brings up dozens of sellers, mostly from Hong Kong that I didn't want to deal with. Checking "US only" removes most of those, but still leaves some since they are now just stating they ship to the US to get around the "US only".
Try this search. It reduces the count down to 530 sellers;
http://www.ebay.com/sch/String-Ligh...led+flexible+LED+lighting+strips&LH_PrefLoc=1

For those of you that don't like eBay, here is a link for a Amazon search (fine tuning may be necessary);
Amazon.com: led flexible strip lighting

All of the above are also available in aluminum housings, but at a higher cost.
If you don't want to bother, or have some other reason, there are these 'fixtures" available;
http://www.amazon.com/Bright-LED-cabinet-panels-powersupplies/dp/B003AKCT5G/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
 
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beiland

Well-Known Member
I do not have experience in model track lighting, but I do have experience in whole house lighting, projection lighting and undercabinet lighting. We specify a large number of LED strip lights for UC lighting and I believe that what you're attempting to do is very similar.

After reviewing your photos, unless they have been altered by your camera in any way, are not 2700K lights. Almost everything we specify is 2700K; cheap LED manufacturers are really bad about consistency in their diodes. I would recommend using ElementalLED strip lighting at a minimum of 2.16watts per foot, preferably with a diffuser.

Elemental's pricing is very reasonable, especially if you look into the kits; which come with a driver, dimmer and the attaching cables. We've used these in a number of kitchens now and they don't add un-necessary heat and look great!

Here is the strip I'd recommend for you:
http://www.elementalled.com/brighter-led-strip.html

That company certainly appears to have an all encompassing selection of LED tape lights. I think I will ask them for a quote.
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
Encapsulated? Perhaps I need to read more to see the varieties.
Did you see this link I made?
https://www.saving-star.com/smd-led-comparison
I used the term to relate to the ones that are surrounded by what appwars to be silicone. I haven't re-researched this recently, there is probably a specific term that is used.
And no, I didn't see that link it was kinda buried in that post.

When I read your opening posting (and just reread it) I got the idea that you recognized the Chinese product rather suspiciously, and might not have purchased it?
AFAIK, I believe they all are from China, but they may be a few rare ones made here. Problem is, whether you get them from e-bay (from Hong Kong), or a direct from a US importer/dealer, how can you tell the quality difference?? :confused: In that OP, one of the links talked about "binning".
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
Hi Videobruce,
I'm trying to sort out this LED lighting situation as well for my relatively small project,...dbl-deck layout in 12x16 train shed.

It appears you like to research the tech as well, so I might suggest you have a look thru this discussion on another forum (rather lengthy and sometimes a little too techi), but some interesting data.
"LED strip lighting "for the average Joe"

I put one posting on there about your situation, and a link back to your photos. I don't know what answers have been submitted yet,...as that forum's software is NOT near as user friendly as the software that operates this forum site....and that site does NOT notify us when a new posting has been made!!
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
On that site they have both web postings & blogs. I didn't happen to notice that this particular subject was on a blog rather than just a forum posting.
I recently posted this over on that other forum,...


Forum Software
If someone posts a question to the forum and they expect an instant response, then maybe they should be using google to search for an answer.

Alternately they might not know how to use the forum software to track responses to their questions. Since they didn't get any email or message on their phone that it has been answered, they go off on their own in another direction to find the answer.
Jim B
***************************

I would suggest you have a look at this forum's software,...or however you term it.
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/forum.php

They have a lot of nice features that make it nice to use,...just a few
1) search within a subject thread
2) notification when someone has responded to a subject thread you have contributed to
3) individual postings references (links to specific postings)
4) active topics button
5) basic categorization of train topics

This forum also offers similar features,
https://www.boatdesign.net/forums/

The knowledge base on this Model Railroad Hobbist forum is great, and a number of other good qualities, BUT the ease of use is much less than some other forums I participate in.

It could be days or weeks before you come back to reply to this posting of mine (not really, but just an example). By then the subject thread might have many intervening postings that obscure my 'question/posting', so it gets lost in whatever is most recent on the forum as a whole. And since I didn't get any reply notice, I forgot I even posted it and went off on other subjects that I had questions of.

Don't know if I explained that correctly? I feel that it is very easy to lose ones own particular postings on this MRH forum as the lose in the mass of numerous postings on all sorts of matters, and not categorized or linked in some manner. One has to look thru an entire subject thread to find that particular link?

I've had folks contact me years later about a particular posting I made on that boating forum, and we could continue a conversation from there on. (even while my memory is in decline...sad)

Brian
 
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beiland

Well-Known Member
LED 'shop lites'

Just visited a Home Depot this evening and found these LED shop lights at a pretty good price.

Any one care to comment on their usability??



[url]https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-8-ft-34-Watt-White-Integrated-LED-Shop-Light-SHLP-36IN-40K-80CRI-DNA/301158095[/URL]
Lithonia Lighting
Model # SHLP 36IN 40K 80CRI DNA
4.6304 (92)
2.8 ft. 34-Watt White Integrated LED Shop Light


The 2.8 ft. White Integrated LED Shoplight from Lithonia Lighting provides energy-efficient task lighting or general purpose lighting for utility applications like workshops, garages and basements. The integrated LEDs eliminate the need for light bulbs, and have a 35,000 hour average life span. Chain and "S" hooks are included for easy installation, and they allow you to adjust the direction of the light.

Energy efficient LED technology
3000 lumens and 34-Watt with cool white color temperature, 4000K
Polycarbonate construction in white finish
Designed for suspended installation via mounting chains
Fixture operates at 120-Volt
Starts reliably down to 0°F
CSA listed to US and Canadian safety standards


$14.97, 3 footer
$19.97, 4 footer


Brian
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
Here are pics of the strips temporary mounted to the 'L' girders under the layout. These have adhesive on the back that actually might hold for the long term, but I will probably apply clear (or white) acrylic caulk as a additional measure.
I needed around 27', so I either cut one of these or overlap where they meet in the middle, starting the ends of each strip from the ends of the table. I believe the actual length of the strips are more than 16", but haven't measured yet.
One strip is decent, not bright, but workable. With both strips in use, output is more than enough telling me a 5050 strip as opposed to this 3528 would of been the better choice.

If you focus on the top of each pic, the single strip really isn't that bad, ignoring the carpeted wall that sucks up light, making it look much darker. Finally, the "warm white" is very pleasing. I wouldn't want the common so called "clear or true white".

Though, I surely didn't need "waterproof", I find this encapsulated strip a huge advantage over a bare flexible circuit board with LED's & resistors exposed to getting hit and damaged. I'm not sure about mounting as I'm concerned if either strip fails and needs replacement for whatever reason. I was planning on applying acrylic caulk to supplement the adhesive strip, but I'm not sure now. using pieces of 24 gauge wire does hold these in place, but needs refinement.

Hi Bruce,
Did you ever sort out the problem you experienced with the LED failures? Do you think it had anything to do with heat build up under the waterproofing coating/wahtever?

I've got to sit down and reread this subject thread.

I wonder how the pricing of this 'strip lighting' is going to compare to this already fashioned LED shop lights strung up in a line. I posted a comment on those over here:
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?38590-LED-layout-lighting&p=465159#post465159

Brian
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
A late reply and a update on the problem.

My guess is 3 fold; cheap design/materials, excessive heat from being weatherproof (encapsulated) and possibly ($$) over voltage. More sets (three at a time) have gone dark which tells me it's the resistor.

I bought 3 more reels, but will wait until more go dark before i remove these, there are other priorities. :(
 

videobruce

Tower Operator
Update on the dying LED strips problems.

I removed a 2nd strip where half the LED's died and replaced it with a new strip. The old ones were around 32500 degrees kelvin, the new ones are around 4000 deg. K which looks better (and brighter).
The last existing strip cover the far end of the layout and most of those are still good. I also put a adjustable PS in and adjusted the voltage down to 11 vdc. Hopefully this won't repeat the previous problems with those apparent cheap strips with little QC.

Note the comparison between with and without the lighting and the two strips (old on bottom, new on top).
 

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