First layout (HO) Help

[Rorysm]

So my son wants a model railroad and he has a November birthday so between that and Christmas, looks like I'm building a model railroad... soon.
I don't have the carpentry tools or skills to pull off anything too big so I'm probably looking at the dreaded 4'x8' table with a Madison Central style layout (possibly a few liberties taken with it). We have a basement so space isn't too much of a worry (except I don't want to take up all the basement). Honestly, if I thought something cool could be done with 4x6 I'd probably go that route (any ideas?)
I'm open for any ideas, suggestions, please excuse my ignorance.

[Burlington Bob]

Since a 4x8 takes up the same amount of space as a 6x10 because of the need for access to all four sides, you may want to consider something a little different. This layout has had a little discussion on here lately and just might be a good starter.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OWJKbUUCx0...ut+Rev+511.jpg

http://hogrr.blogspot.com/

If you have the room I think this would be a much better and still easy and economical alternative. Still uses only one 4x8 sheet of plywood but has a lot better design than the standard small "spaghetti bowl". Also allows the trains a bit of space to run.

[Rorysm]

I like that, and even have a tie to the area (my dad bought produce for years at the Cordele market for his produce company), but I have two concerns:

1) the amount of woodwork needed, or is that simple pre-cut shelf-like wood with some minor framework under them?

2) My son wants a bit more of a city feel with plenty of buildings and the tables seem to provide plenty of that in the middle. Plus the storage option for under the table would be nice (this is a basement and we have a bunch of stuff in rubbermaid storage totes).

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

If it's just the totes then those can fit under the shelf.

How old is your son? And is this layout something you see yourself operating as well? What brand rolling stock will you be running?

I ask because the HOG plan presented Bob if for reasonably realistic operation. If your son is too young to appreciate more than watching trains go around the 4x8 might be the better choice.

Benchwork isn't hard. Shelf brackets can support some simple panels made by bracing 1/4" ply with 1x2, and a 2" slab of foam glued down on top.

[otiscnj]

Not sure of exactly what you mean by 'smple precut shelf-like wood,' but have the following thoughts.

If you mean by this the prefab particle board shelves, with the wood grain venniers, I'd stay away from that sort of thing, due to strength concerns, as well as warping.

Solid wood shelving you might be able to get away with, if you keep the lengths on the shorter side. One problem however, again is as it ages, it tends to warp.

If the issue is investing in some power tools, most of them you can use around the house, to fix/make other things besides trains.

[Beachbum]

You can find cheap low bookshelf kits at IKEA. There's an article in a recent issue of Model Railroad Planning (2 years ago?) where the guy did just that. Looked good with built-in storage and appeared to be stable. My self switcher is sitting on bookshelves right now while I finish my train room in my basement. No problem with warping, etc so far.

For temporary solutions, I've also put modules / shelf layouts on folding plastic banquet tables. Not ideal, but no woodworking needed and you can always use them for garage sales. ;-)

[otiscnj]

I'm currently using some IKEA Ivar shelving for a portion of my layout. So far its working very well. Costs a bit more, but saves time, and is useable by 'the family.' Also good in that its easy to move, if that's a possibility in the future.

[Rorysm]

I guess I meant the pre-cut wood planks at Lowes or Home Depot... I made a bookcase out of that stuff once a decade ago, painted it and put some varnish and even though it's been in my basement at our house for 7 years there has been no warping so I guess that would do (also I could use MDF right, that wouldn't warp much either).

My son is seven, so a nice big circle with a couple limited other choices would do the job nicely for him, hence the Madison Central seems to be a nice compromise (also having the stuff in the middle of the board out of reach for him and his friends might be a good idea!
As for rolling stock I plan on using, I barely even know what that means! This is all new to me, I didn't have a set as a child, but I guess I'm now more of a toy train layout guy then a full model railroad or realistic etc etc etc. We all gotta learn somewhere I guess.

[Selector]

If you can keep the layout space within a defined range of humidity, temps not so important (some, but not nearly as much as humidity when dealing with organic frameworks or surfaces such as wood), and can at least keep the whole from rocking a bit due to a hand placed here or there, or from sagging for the same reason, then there is no reason not to use what seems right to use, especially where costs are important.

The idea is to have a stable and fairly rigid structure so that your trains don't end up going up and down unwanted hills or grade, or being jostled off their tracks entirely several times each week. Using a dehumidifier might be a good idea in a relatively unfinished basement, say. Attics get very warm, and too hot for the lubes in your locomotives. You could even melt plastic shells.

You would probably be well advised to have a friend make rectangular frames with at least one central joist, or two joists into which you can insert a slab or two of extruded insulation foam board. It is light, but not cheap. I would suggest clear pine or spruce 1X4 with braced 1X2 legs/stilts. Build it so that it is at least waist high, but many prefer it higher for ease of natural eye-level viewing. Construction gets harder as it gets higher, though.

Play with temporary track arrangements for a few weeks. Keep your imagination active, imagine the train really generating revenue at work-sites where cars are loaded and dropped off empty for re-loading. Once you know which type of railroading holds your interest, start building a supporting track layout. It is at that point that you would want to consider which locomotives will work best, be a realistic 'fit' for that context, and also get the supporting structure kits or built-ups to create the buildings.

In other words, resist the urge to go out and buy stuff that interest you today. Put off the big expenses until later when you have learned a bit more.

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

I guess I meant the pre-cut wood planks at Lowes or Home Depot... I made a bookcase out of that stuff once a decade ago, painted it and put some varnish and even though it's been in my basement at our house for 7 years there has been no warping so I guess that would do (also I could use MDF right, that wouldn't warp much either).

My son is seven, so a nice big circle with a couple limited other choices would do the job nicely for him, hence the Madison Central seems to be a nice compromise (also having the stuff in the middle of the board out of reach for him and his friends might be a good idea!
As for rolling stock I plan on using, I barely even know what that means! This is all new to me, I didn't have a set as a child, but I guess I'm now more of a toy train layout guy then a full model railroad or realistic etc etc etc. We all gotta learn somewhere I guess.

Well, Lionel toy trains are a better quality than HO toy trains. If he's seven, I would just buy Bachmann locomotives and cars. They run good, but are cheap so you won't be out too much when something goes crashing to the floor. I would also advise Bachmann's DCC system and DCC-equipped locomotives. Inexpensive and simple, and you can have a few trains running at the same time without complicated wiring.


Keep in mind that alot of the offered advice is for if you were building a model railroad and not a toy train layout. Go ahead with the 4x8 for now, but be prepared to demolish it should interests develop into something more advanced. 4x8's tend to be hard to 'integrate' into a plan later on without still looking like a toy layout. Especially the Madison Central. I look at it and wonder why it was picked as the 'World's Greatest Hobby' track plan because it has almost no potential. It's great for a hobby shop display but has almost no future potential.

In the interest of future potential, might I suggest you simply build first the oval from the St. Louis Central?

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/projectmr.htm

You can add sidings as interest grows, it still has lots of space for buildings in the middle, and should you keep the design the layout makes a nice industrial branch. Just a suggestion.