working signal stand for snap switches?


wvg_ca

wvg_ca

semi flaccid member
just wondering if there were any functional signal stands [or driver circuits], available for use with my atlas snap switches...

I'm looking for lighted signal heads, not the movable type..

I know that it's pretty easy with the tortoise type, as they have the capability built into them , but those are on my 'wish list' but not in my current budget..

it gets a little annoying when i get a derail because i run into a closed turnout, and i don't have any other indicators for position...

I don't have any real desire for a true prototypical signal stand, just some type of relatively simple visual indication, either full height or a dwarf type..

most of the time i just flip the toggle switch, and if there's no 'click', then it must be ok, unless it's just a little sticky..:)
 
That's why control panels are a good thing. You can wire a momentary toggle switch with lights in series to each pole. You can have a green light on the control panel when the switch has been lined for the main and a red light when the swith has been lined for the green. You can do the same thing with any dwarf signal at the switch itself although it makes more sense to have this on a control panel since you should be looking at that when you throw the switch.

The problem with snap switches is that apply that momentary pulse of power to the switch machine in no way means anything happened. Since the switch isn't power routing, a "sticky" switch, as you say, will wound like something happened but the points won't move. Since power is always routed through the switch, you'll get a false indication that the switch is lined for the correct track when it isn't. The can be changed gapping tracks and running feeder wires but I won't get into that here. That's one reason I use ground throws almost exclusively with Caboose Hobby switch stands like the one at http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/97-204. They look good, can be used either manually or adapted to switch machines, and give a positive visual indication of of the points really moved.
 
putting indicator lights to show main / switched on the panel would be sensible...unfortunately I don't have much 'spare' space on my panel...it's pretty tight [mind you, so's my layout..:) ]..
question...
how would the lights on a panel show 'current' position of a turnout with snap switches that are actuated with a 'momentary' pulse...??
I _assume_ I would have to wire in additional small micro switches at each turnout.., or??

my [first] layout has basically no room to place ground throws as track spacing is [in general] too tight to fit them in...

thanks..
 
With standard snap switches, there's no way to positively show the position of the points with lights since power is routed to the main and diverging routes at all times. Assuming you are running DCC, there's a diagram at http://www.wiringfordcc.com/signaling.htm#sig_turnout that shows how to set up a bicolor LED that can be used in a dwarf signal to indicate position. This involves cutting gaps in tracks and adding extra wiring and resistors.

If you're still running DC only, you can adapt the diagram and use the same technique buy cutting gaps to make the switch power routing. You'd then add wires and resistors just beyond the gap to activate a red and green dwarf signal to show the position of the switch.

Since it sounds like you have a small layout, manual switches are really a much better choice. I fail to understand how you can't have enough room for a ground throw if you have enough room for a switch machine.
 
yes, running DCC... MRC express, reasonable ebay price at the time..

thought about doing the isolate / read power status thing, decided I didn't want to go that way, getting too old to crawl around a great deal under the layout, and at 'table top' height it's too low for me to sit comfortably underneath it..right now it's wired with single main bus to mainlines [no blocking], and switchable power to sidings, turntable tracks, staging areas...and a couple of the mrc A/R relay lumps..etc..

my layout is small at around 7x7 feet, and fairly tight / cramped, at the time of build [last winter], I had more interest in 'laying down track' rather than allowing for scenery..a lot of first layout / newbie design errors, a 'learning experience' I'm too stubborn to tear up..:)

spacing between rails is 1 1/8 inches , center to center around 1 7/8, just barely enough for 40 / 50 foot rolling stock and 4 axle loco's...

I removed the snap switches, bent the actuating arm in a 90, an mounted them directly under the turnout, upside down, totally hidden, but not as nice operating [or working with] as a tortoise or similar stall switch...

I was thinking about something like a forced low NOR gate driving mirrored leds [red / green] just to give visual indication of positioning, figured may as well put them around the turnouts, more room there than on the panel itself..

thanks..
Warren
 
at the club layout they use a few ways

1)control panels with red and green light so show what way the switch is lined and the path the train will follow

2) Dwarf signals with green and red light that show position of the switch

3) wireing the tracks that lead into the switch in a way that if a train tries to get close to an open switch about (10")it will short out and stop the engine. This works if you have one engine but if you have 2 or 3 the lead engine most likely gets pushed thrugh the clost switch.
 
>>1)control panels with red and green light so show what way the switch is lined and the path the train will follow

I thought about that for the panel, easy with stall motor types, not so easy with momentary power snap switches, unless I change my Cap Discharge supply around some for higher constant load [maybe 30 leds], and change all panel SPTD momentary switches to normal type, decided against that method as I don't have much spare room on the panel, and not a great deal of space to make a new / larger panel, and [personally] I'm not to fond of constant power to hidden snap switches with fine wiring...:)

>>2) Dwarf signals with green and red light that show position of the switch

basically what I was thinking of, don't have a great need for 'prototypically correct', more so just as an easily viewable indicator...

thanks...
I 'think' I may have a solution that will work for me, might try breadboarding one up this weekend..
 
figured out a small circuit, probably less than a buck in parts...
will trigger off the momentary pulse from the snap switches..and indicate correctly...
also has ability to:
power up in a selected 'active' state.. ie: one of the two lights will power up consistently... [upper left two components]
drawback is that it isn't neccesarily the same position as the switch..:)and then added..
driver to auto switch all turnouts on power up to default selected state..[either way] as chosen with small jumper...[lower part of circuit]..
brings cost up to maybe 1.25 in total, plus assembly time...
if anyone else wants to use it, feel free....

..enjoy..
 
Nice job on that circuit. As you say, the drawback is that there's no way that you will know that the switch actually moved to the correct postion when you applied power. At least this gives you an indication of what should have happened and then you can hope for the best as you run the train through the switch.
 
feedback could be accomplished with micro switches buried under the track, capacitance sensors that could detect the actual brass / nickel track itself, optical, either visible or infrared types..
all of which would require digging up my track...:)
I don't even have any parts of the snap switch accessible in any manner, they're buried until they die...
and then a hole drilled top down, and one from bottom up, and a tortoise goes in...one or two at a time if budget allows / old ones die, unless I let this one slowly decay away, and design something a little better overall..
at least the signal mast will be reusable later on if nothing else..
the circuit itself doesn't care much how it's driven, so may be of use to others..
I do like the idea of a 'slow motion' type of actuation though..the 'snap' isn't appealing, although functional for many people for decades now...most of mine were [I assume] used before I got them..

I think someplace around here I should have something where I could make a servo 'degree of rotation' and a 'speed of rotation' shouldn't be hard to do..
and RC servo's are pretty cheap now..that way at least a spdt switch would also indicate turnout position on the panel, mine are momentary and return to center...

I think I'm just over the one year mark into this hobby, don't really want to add up all those 'little' ebay and swap purchases...nope..it's a hobby..:)

..enjoy..
 
I looked at your page showing the construction, and was quite impressed, very nice finished product...
Slowly thinking up a new layout, with 'proper' track spacing, and allowance for scenery, and they would be perfect........
my first layout, done last winter, was not thought out in advance, and doesn't have the track to track spacing for these type...
trying to rearrange the basement so I have room for a 12x7 L shaped layout..and renovating the house at the same time..

thanks,
Warren
 
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