Walthers Passenger Cars

[beiland]

A couple of weeks ago I acquired some really nice 85' modern passenger cars that came from an estate sale. They had no markings on them as to manufacturer? They appear to be of a very high quality, and are already set up for lighting via their truck pic-ups.

I inquired with a few other modelers that seemed to be pretty sure they were Walthers brand, and that often Walthers cars did not had a brand printed on their bottoms, as Walthers has many different manufacturers produce product for themselves??

3 of these cars have figures (passengers) in them. Did any of the 'stock' passenger cars have such?

Since these did NOT come in boxes, I'm unsure as to what exact subcategory of the Walthers line they might be from? I'm trying to determine a value as I may wish to sell them off due to my fondness for B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.

Long ago I had some Concor passenger cars that had molded bottoms somewhat similar to these, and at first I thought they might be some 'upgraded' Concor cars. But they are far superior to those.

 

[wheeler1963]

If you are able to post a picture of the cars, I'm sure someone on here will be able to identify them.

 

[Iron Horseman]

A couple of weeks ago I acquired some really nice 85' modern passenger cars that came from an estate sale. They had no markings on them as to manufacturer? They appear to be of a very high quality, and are already set up for lighting via their truck pic-ups.

3 of these cars have figures (passengers) in them. Did any of the 'stock' passenger cars have such?

Since these did NOT come in boxes, I'm unsure as to what exact subcategory of the Walthers line they might be from? I'm trying to determine a value as I may wish to sell them off due to my fondness for B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.

1. Is the lighting pick up a metal shoe over the truck that contacts a screw on the top of the truck? That is the Walther's design.
2. Yes, Walther's "Name Train" series deluxe cars come with Preiser figures in them.
3. Walther's has recently run "Name Train" series cars for all three of the roads you mention B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.
4. Walther's Proto cars will have metal trucks.

The deluxe cars originally only sold in sets, but people who purchased sets and broke them up made the retail list between $90 and $150 depending on type of car and whether or not they were sound equipped. Not having the box will lower the price as these were made for collectors. The boxes had special sleeves on them branded with the train name.
https://www.walthers.com/catalog/category/view/id/13423

The non-deluxe cars came in two versions with lights and without lights. List hovering around the $80 price. Box will not be important here.

Personally I try never to pay more than $50. I got the Hiawatha and Empire Builder sets (non-deluxe) in the $34-$43 range because I waited for the used market. Some of these sets increase in value until the next time Walther's runs them and then there is a reset. Plus Walthers seems to increase the price by at least 10% at each run.

Then there are just the generic Walther's Proto "Streamline" and "Heavyweight" passenger cars that run in the $60 price range.

And finally Walther's has a cheapo line called Mainline. I don't know much about these.

 

[tootnkumin]

And finally Walther's has a cheapo line called Mainline. I don't know much about these.

Very basic. Shells aren't bad, but no frills at all. No grabs included for modeler installation, truck mounted couplers, and flat plastic windows. Upgrade kit available at extra charge.

 

[beiland]

thanks Iron Horseman, very informative info, and a link I had not discovered with the crappy ad-filled google search

I'm going to take some photos of mine this afternoon.

 

[Iron Horseman]

a link I had not discovered with the crappy ad-filled google search

The only reason I was able to track down that link is because I knew it was there. The Walther's web site does not make it easy to find. It used to be a list on their directory but it has been removed for some reason.

 

[beiland]

Here area few photos of the Walthers passenger cars I was asking about...

 

[Iron Horseman]

Definitely Walther's cars. They have the tell tail electrical pick up (red square) and the Walther's swing coupler arrangement (yellow square).

They are not "name train" deluxe cars, as Walther's has yet to do one from the south eastern US. So the figures were added after the fact by the prior owner. On one of the photos it can be seen where the roof did not re-seat back onto the car body (yellow oval below). The Walther's roofs are notoriously difficult to get off without scarring the car (if one does it as the instructions say) or breaking a tab off (if one uses the twist method). I'm guessing there is a missing end tab on this car.

Another tell is that the hand rails are not installed (red below). I assume you do not have the little packets with the pre-formed hand rails for the cars either. Those are usually taped to the inside of the box tray and people will throw them away without realizing there is something valuable still in the box. Of course I've never understood why people throw boxes away to begin with....

These are cars from the discontinued 932- line. Three of them are Budd coaches 932-6310. One is a Budd Parlor 932-6430. Looking about I see they are being listed between $60 and $80 new and $25 to $80 used on ebay. If selling, you should note the missing hand rails.

 

[tootnkumin]

I have similar coaches, they are from the "Ready to Run" line, as I.H. says, now discontinued, but updated into the PROTO line, with the grabs installed ex factory.

 

[beiland]

.......

These are cars from the discontinued 932- line. Three of them are Budd coaches 932-6310. One is a Budd Parlor 932-6430. Looking about I see they are being listed between $60 and $80 new and $25 to $80 used on ebay. If selling, you should note the missing hand rails.

Would there be a way to obtain those missing handrails?....would they be very similar among the Walthers passenger cars??

 

[beiland]

...from another forum...

zstripe
Walthers Proto... Walthers Mainline... They both had the same shell/chassis.​

I don't believe this is correct -- I am pretty sure the construction is different. Walthers Mainline cars have the roof and window glazing as one part (a la the old Rivarossis) while Proto cars (and, I believe, older 932-series cars) have a seperate roof. (Hence the "twist" method of disassembly doesn't work the same way with the Mainlines -- you have to twist while holding the steps instead of the whole carbody.)

Sounds like a lot of people are annoyed with teh OP, but I'll post my experiences in case they help anyone:

Walthers Protos come with body-mount couplers, grab irons installed, roof is a stand-alone item.

Walthers Mainline cars come with truck-mount couplers and no grabs. A conversion kit adds both, but you should see signs that the talgo mount was cut from the truck.

The older 932-series cars (beige/red box) have body-mount couplers. I've seen them with grabs factory installed or as a seperate kit. Can't speak to the construction as I have not disassembled any, but I do believe the prototypes of the cars were different than the Mainline streamliners, which are mostly NYC cars. Many of the 932s I have (except the Slumbercoaches) are different prototypes.

I *think* the 932s may have morphed into the Protos, but I'm not 100% sure. Best way to check is to compare the window patterns.

I have a great book (Amtrak Car Diagrams of the 1970s, by WAymer Publications) that shows the window pattern and interior layouts of most of the cars Amtrak inhereted, and it's proven to be an invaluable resource in sussing out which prototype a model is patterned after. That's how I figured out that the Mainline cars were correct for NYC and many of the 932s weren't.

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...eld-keywords=amtrak+car+diagrams+of+the+1970s

Hope this helps someone, somewhere.

Aaron

 

[tootnkumin]

I *think* the 932s may have morphed into the Protos, but I'm not 100% sure. Best way to check is to compare the window patterns.

I believe that is the case, I did have both at one time. The Protos have now been upgraded again with the addition of window gaskets and installed LED lighting option on some. Price difference of course. Preisser figures have been offered installed too.

 

[Boris]

The current Walthers Proto passenger cars are the outgrowth of their original Ready to Run line of mostly pre ww2 PS and Post ww2 Budds, with separate roofs, floor mounted couplers and provision for interior lighting. As time went on, they were improved. Handrails and grabirons were installed, instead of coming in a small pack, for instance. Plastic couplers were replaced with metal couplers, interior lighting became an option and most recently, a Deluxe version, aimed at collectors, came with factory applied names / numbers passengers, lighting and sound.

Walthers Mainline product line, has evolved into their version of the "operator's" line with less detail and more flexibility to appeal to those interested in operations, or less concerned with prototype fidelity. They come with truck mounted couplers, have a generic floor pattern, and as previously mentioned generally follow NYC prototype with two exceptions, the Wabash Budd Combine Baggage Lounge, and a Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?). Also as previously noted, Walthers sells detail and upgrade kits to bring the Mainline cars up to basic Proto standards.

With regard to the OP's photos, I will go out on a limb and guess that the original owner repainted and relettered the 932 cars for ACL. The RPO is ATSF prototype, the Diner is a NYC Hamburger Grill Lounge, the Coaches ATSF single level coaches, the Sleeping car, a UP Pacific 10-6. and the parlor a PRR Parlor car. They do appear to be Walthers 932 series coaches.

Boris

 

[Iron Horseman]

Would there be a way to obtain those missing handrails?....would they be very similar among the Walthers passenger cars??

No idea. Maybe look in the parts section of the Walther's site. I would think that many of them would be the same car to car. Shouldn't be too hard to fabricate them. Hardest thing would be figuring out the configuration of each (straight out, drop down, angled, etc.).

 

[Iron Horseman]

The older 932-series cars (beige/red box) have body-mount couplers. I've seen them with grabs factory installed or as a seperate kit.

Yes, when they first came out there was a great outcry because installing the hand rails is a huge project. Actually, drilling the holes is the project. My original Super Chief, Empire Builders (3 - one in each color), and Hiawatha sets still don't have handrails! I've had the Super Chief for almost 20? years. I believe the 1954 high level El Capitan set was the first that had hand rails installed.

http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/...s/disaster-on-the-twin-cities-hiawatha.27196/

 

[Boris]

Actually, drilling the holes is the project.

I know of one guy that went through a couple dozed .80 drill bits making holes for the ladders and grabs on a few B60b baggage cars. Has it been almost 20 years. I've got many that still need handrails, grab irons and either number or name decals applied.

Boris

 

[DakotaLove39]

Since the question has been answered to death already, I just want to say that you have most likely lucked out. I am slowly collecting the 1955 Hiawatha, and with just the smallest bit of care these cars will perform like all-stars. My Hiawatha cars just might be the best runners in my entire collection, period.

That being said, make sure you lubricate the axle points every now and then or they will squeal like stuck pigs and fight with your locos. The side-frames are painted metal and part of the electrical pick-up for interior lighting. There's one guy at my club who, despite the suggestions of three of us to do this, does not lubricate his Hiawatha's axles and constantly has issues with their rolling resistance.

For a few drops of oil, mine roll like the royalty that they are.

 

[Iron Horseman]

That being said, make sure you lubricate the axle points every now and then or they will squeal like stuck pigs and fight with your locos. The side-frames are painted metal and part of the electrical pick-up for interior lighting.

I agree. All the Walther's cars are really smooth runners. I use graphite on the axle points. It lubricates and helps the electrical conductivity.