The opinions of a Curmudgeon:


N

NP2626

Guest
I'm going to do a bit of complaining here. I'm sure other Model Railroaders can appreciate where I'm coming from. I model the Northern Pacific, the N.P. was signed into existence by none other than Abraham Lincoln. It was one of the earliest transcontinental lines (either 2nd or 3rd to complete it's main across the U.S., depending on who is telling the story). To me, this information alone should make the N.P. stand out. I don't understand why it is so poorly represented by the manufacturer's! The Great Northern and Milwaukee Road are far more popular for some reason.

My big reason for venting here is the fact that I have done enough kit bashing and decoder installations, making something that isn't, into something that looks like something N.P. I have grown tired of these processes and want to buy locomotives that already have DCC sound decoders in them, like everyone else gets to do. Of the six N.P. Steamers I have, only one of them was an actual Northern Pacific locomotive, an 0-8-0 switcher sold by Walthers as N.P. #1172, with DCC and sound. I have one Northern Pacific Y-1 Consolidation brass loco by PFM. The rest are all something else, repainted and lettered for the N.P.

Of the nine diesels I own only 4 had to be repainted for the N.P., so diesels are doing a bit better as far as representation is concerned. Of the nine, two came with sound decoders and I installed decoders in six of these locomotives and one is a dummy.

Given the true importance of the Northern Pacific, I don't get why the N.P. has to be one of they most overlooked railroads as far as power is concerned! Don't get me wrong, I am eternally grateful for the fact that I was able to do the modifications to the locomotives I have! If we look at all my rolling stock, we can see that rolling stock does not suffer with the problems that power has, as there are plenty of freight cars in N.P. Livery!

I completely understand why Free-Lancing was so popular in the 50s 60s 70s and 80s. You had to use what was available to even have a model railroad back then.

Off my Soap Box, now!
 
Easy. Supply and demand. I had the same problem with SP stuff. Plenty of freight cars, but motive power for the hobby, no matter the road, tends to be a generic type lettered for everything. it might be "right" for one or two roads only. I had to make changes to detail parts, lighting packages, and so forth for many years. Athearn has been very kind to the SP modeler over the years, but if you're a steam era modeler in almost anything, you're stuck with USRA prototypes, because manufacturers probably feel these have the broadest appeal. That left me on the hook for steam if I wanted anything besides a GS-4 or the IHC 2-6-0, passenger equipment, head end cars, and other small steam. I ended up with a huge brass collection accumulated over some 25 years. Scratchbuild, kitbash, resin kits, or buy brass! If you want to spend the money, the NP is quite well represented in the steam, diesel, and passenger departments by Samhongsa, W&R, Sunset and others. There are quite a few listings on eBay and brass trains.com. If you don't like foobies and want true prototypical models you've got a lot of work to do and you aren't alone. Been there, done that!
 
Espeefan, as far as understanding the economics of what is available goes, I pretty much get it. Doesn't change my opinion on how it should be.
 
HOLD the phone folks, batten down the hatches, board up the windows, hold onto your hat....No..another storm is not on the way. Mark is just having an epiphany.














Synonyms for epiphany
  • flash.
  • insight.
  • inspiration.
  • oracle.
  • realization.
  • vision.
  • sign.
  • surprise.
 
Mark, I totally agree with you. I have complained for years about the lack of NP locomotives. When I started my layout over 30 years ago, there was nothing for the NP except an F-7 from Athearn with an incorrect paint job. I had to start with undecorated locomotives and custom painted an F-7 and a geep so I could have NP locomotives for my layout. Road engines are scarce. I did manage to get a pair of geeps, LifeLike proto 2000's years ago.

Recently I have been searching for months to find some road units to run at my club and there is nothing in the way of road units. I did find an Atlas RS-1 to run at my club which is a nice unit. When I tried to get another, they were sold out.

Alan mentioned supply and demand, and there is apparent a lot of demand because it seems that everything that is brought tout is bought out in short order.

I wanted to build a North Coast Limited train and managed to pick up an F-3 from Stewart, and ended up having to toallly repaint it because the colors were not correct. When I bought the F-3, I also got an F-9 in the freight scheme for $20. The details on both units were poor or non existant. I did complete it with a lot of work and put the F-9 into a box of items to be sold. It ended up that the Stewart F-9 was DCC ready and had the Kato drive. I managed to find someone to install a decoder with sound and went to work detailing the shell. It didn't have any details, or even a road number. This Saturday it will get the smoke test at the club. My old Athearn F-7 which was also remotored with a can motor is behind the F-9.

20180921_153734.jpg


I had to number it 7012A because I did take photos of it in the Livingston yard the day it was leaving to be transported to Washington. It is now running on the Mount Rainier Scenic Railroad. Again, it took a lot of work to add the proper details, but with nothing available from manufacturers, there was little choice.

I believe that there is a demand for Northern Pacific equipment because is is usually sold out quickly.
 
Last edited:
One reason would be that NP designed most of their own stuff and didn't purchase engines and rolling stock from outside manufacturers. I'm not familiar with NP except for Jack Parkers layout as highlighted in Mainline Modeler. I modeled N&W in the 1930's (as a personal challenge) and found that N&W designed their own engines since 1927, and designed their own hoppers. this severely limits what manufacturers would accurately make. Sure a few Westerfield kits and some craftsmen kits of cabooses etc, but not much else. You have to wade through the number of Y6b's and to a lesser extent, the USRA/Y3's, but other than those ONLY BRASS for steam. Most cabooses ONLY available as brass. Roads that had lots of ARA etc mass produced stuff get modeled.
 
One reason would be that NP designed most of their own stuff and didn't purchase engines and rolling stock from outside manufacturers.

N.P. did design and build it's cabooses; however, they purchased most of their steam locos from Alco and yes, they did help Alco design their locomotives. Freight cars might have been built in their shops; but, I would think the majority where purchased from regular manufacturers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sure a few Westerfield kits and some craftsmen kits of cabooses etc, but not much else. You have to wade through the number of Y6b's and to a lesser extent, the USRA/Y3's, but other than those ONLY BRASS for steam. Most cabooses ONLY available as brass.

MOST railroads' steam engines and cabooses were unique to each railway. That's not just a NP or NW modeling issue. Locomotives didn't really standardize until diesels became mass-produced and the railways didn't built their own locomotives in their own shops anymore.
 
I'm going to do a bit of complaining here. I'm sure other Model Railroaders can appreciate where I'm coming from. I model the Northern Pacific, the N.P. was signed into existence by none other than Abraham Lincoln.
Well technically, the Northern Pacific was the first transcontinental chartered and last completed. Despite the financial panic of 1873 (of which the Northern Pacific was a major contributor) the original Northern Pacific Railway survived but then went out of business in 1875. I believe it was replace with the Northern Pacific Railroad which completed the sixth US transcontinental line in 1883. It also soon went out of business in 1893, being replaced by the Northern Pacific Railway that we think of when we think of the line.

Just like the Union Pacific advertising they have been in business for 125 years.... If they were chartered in 1862 why isn't it 157 years? That is because just like the original Northern Pacific, the original Union Pacific Rail Road didn't last long. It was replaced by the Union Pacific Railway which was replace by the Union Pacific Railroad we know today which came into this world in 1893. Note the three different spellings because they are different companies.

Of the six N.P. Steamers I have, only one of them was an actual Northern Pacific locomotive, an 0-8-0 switcher sold by Walthers as N.P. #1172, with DCC and sound.
And even that was a standard USRA design used by many roads, so for Walthers the only expense was another set of paint screens. I was finally glad to get the Athearn Genesis Z-6 that had been on my "want" list for decades. I've been on the Broadway Limited wait list for the A3 for what 3(?) years now. sigh.

One reason would be that NP designed most of their own stuff and didn't purchase engines and rolling stock from outside manufacturers.
I disagree with that statement. I think NP was one of the more "purchase from a catalog" type railroad than most. It was the Great Northern who seemed to love building their own locos in their own shops and coming up with things like the 2-6-8-0 type. Which is one reason I think GN is more popular. Interesting, different, and strange locomotives capture people's imagination. There are percentage wise more models made of the odd and different than there are of the normal and mundane. Once again take the example of the UP Big-Boy. Only 39 of the units existed in real life and didn't range very far, but in the model railroad universe they are everywhere.

N.P. did design and build it's cabooses; however, they purchased most of their steam locos from Alco and yes, they did help Alco design their locomotives. Freight cars might have been built in there shops; but, I would think the majority where purchased from regular manufacturers.
Yes, from what I read and see in the rosters I also believe this to be true. The steam locomotives' customizations were no more than any other railroad's and a very common practice in the steam days.
 
Last edited:
I'm also of the opinion that interest in the modern era of high powered diesel locomotives is somewhat supplanting locomotives from my era of interest. I'm specifically interested in the transition era and specifically 1953. Even second generation diesels are not a part of what I am interested in. For the manufacturers, the present times is great time to produce models for an era when all diesels look pretty much the same! Other than who own's them and the various paint schemes used, producing models of them should produce great sales.

Maybe the manufacturers want us all to model the present day! They can amortize the tooling over greater numbers and still short change many of us with their reduced production runs!

Toot, is the above more epiphany; or, more rantings from a confirmed Curmudgeon?
 
I can hearterly understand your rant, Mark, but if you think you have it difficult, try modeling the roads that I grew up with ... the SLSF - the MKT -the KCS! All three of them combined do not add up to what you guys have with the NP?
 
Maybe the manufacturers want us all to model the present day! They can amortize the tooling over greater numbers and still short change many of us with their reduced production runs!
I think they're doing what the Auto makers do, the newest and latest is the greatest. They're also trying to appeal to new generations of modellers who are attracted to modelling trains of what they see everyday, and big, powerful and colorful is very attractive.

Toot, is the above more epiphany; or, more rantings from a confirmed Curmudgeon?
Nothing that complex Mark, just me giving you a dig in the ribs. :p
 
Sherrel, I thought you modeled the Rio Grande Southern and not the Frisco, Katy; or, KCS? However, I could understand your frustration you would have IF you modeled those roads! It would be similar to my frustration with modeling the Northern Pacific, even though there might be a few locomotives available for the N.P.

Toot, Tit for tat!
 
Also, I find that if model railroading did not include steam locomotives, I would likely not be in the hobby. The modern diesel locomotive does nothing for me. So, I don't attempt to identify real diesels when seen on the tracks while traveling. Being only 68 years old, I can barely remember real steam in use as a child; however, early diesels are in my memories. But, steam power still fascinates me and I'm uncertain why this is!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Y3a
Espeefan, as far as understanding the economics of what is available goes, I pretty much get it. Doesn't change my opinion on how it should be.
I'm a sales manager in my professional life. As such I'm always getting beat up for order volume. When is this or that order coming in? How many sales do you anticipate this month? You need to get the volume up. And so forth. I sometimes get myself disliked because I tell management "The one thing we've never been able to do consistently is to get the customer to spend their money when we think they should." These darn manufacturers, they won't make what we think they should make when we want them to make it! ;) I think we've all experienced this to some degree or another. There is enough out there for you to credibly model the NP, it's just a pain to chase it all down. I have two passenger trains that are the center piece of my collection. a 1941 SP Lark, and a 1941 City of San Francisco. It took over 10 years to put each train together, a car at a time, mostly because many of the cars I needed were only available in brass, and had been run in the 1970's-1980's era. The last Lark car I bought was the sleeper with twin tail signs. A Coach Yard model. I won't tell you what I paid! :oops: Chin up! It's possible. It's just probably going to cost more than you'd like. A fellow I still custom paint for once asked me if I'd rather have a lot of common run of the mill stuff or a smaller collection of really nice pieces. Both actually!
 
Also, I find that if model railroading did not include steam locomotives, I would likely not be in the hobby. The modern diesel locomotive does nothing for me. So, I don't attempt to identify real diesels when seen on the tracks while traveling. Being only 68 years old, I can barely remember real steam in use as a child; however, early diesels are in my memories. But, steam power still fascinates me and I'm uncertain why this is!

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do prefer steam over diesel. The only steam in operation I ever saw other than museum stuff was in Europe in the 70's. I think it's the size, the fire breathing, the impression of raw power of them that you don't get with diesels. Modern trains bore me, endless containers or grain hoppers, or whatever. Bleh! I need variety in a train to make it interesting.
 
Because of the earlier discussion, I looked up some stuff on the transcontinentals.

date - railroad(s) / meeting point / official end-points
1869 - CP-UP / Promentary point UT / Omaha-Sacramento
March 1881 - SP-ATSF / Lamy, NM / Atchison-LA
1881 - SP-TP / Sierra Blanca / Marshal, TX - LA
Feb 5 1881 - SP (sunset route) // New Orleans - LA
1883 - ATSF #1 / Needles / Chicago - LA
Sep 8 1883 - NP / / Minneapolis - Tacoma WA
1887 - ATSF #2 / / Chicago - Okland
1889 - GN / / St. Paul - Seattle
1902 - RI-SP / Tucumcari / Chicago - LA
1909 - Milwalkee / / Chicago - Seattle
1909 - WP-RG-MP / / St. Louis - Okland
 
A bit off topic; but, thanks for the information, Iron Horseman.
 



Back
Top