Single Slip verses Double Slip Turnouts

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beiland

Well-Known Member
#1
Would anyone mind giving me their thoughts about using a single slip turnout rather than a double slip one,...positives vs negatives.??


I have in mind a place where I think the single slip would be advisable over a double, but before describing my particular situation I was looking to hear generalities about the two.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#2
Single or Double Slip Turnout





So here is my particular situation. I have two spur lines off of the mainlines feeding my peninsula area. It is desired that these 2 entering lines be able to select between either of 2 lines themselves. The most 'compact' manner to do such a thing is a slip switch.


A single slip switch accomplishes just what I want to do,...take the entering train and curve it around onto the same side, or cross it over to the other side. It does this in one single selection of the controller. It can remain on one single selection and do the same thing for trains entering from either track,...cross them over, or leave then curving around on the 'same track'.


Another nice feature of the single slip is that should the train stop, then get reversed while over this turnout, the train will NOT try to pick the opposite track and derail,,,as it might well do on a double slip switch. Is my thinking correct??


Since the double slip switch has 'another set of point rails' at its other end, that ARE NOT always set in the correct position, the train could well back up and try to chose a different route than it came in on. In other words it requires 2 control settings to get the dbl-slip to act in the manner I seek above, ….plus when I change the incoming route I have to make TWO selections to get it to operate like the single slip that I did not have to make any new selections.??








Overall view (sorry, still just a paste in for the peninsula plan as I have not finished final plan for it)









Enlarged peninsula (again, somewhat representative)









Slip switch location



Single or Double



The 2 tracks coming off the slip switch will be feeding the two container unloading/loading tracks located either side of that 'passenger station' in the original Tupper Lake plan.





The track on the left next to the aisle will be the 'escape track' for the locos that pulled the trains into the peninsula area to escape back to the freight yard area or the turntable,...a 22” radius one & a 24” radius one for bigger steamers.



Container crane (block of wood) straddling container tracks
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#3
Would anyone mind giving me their thoughts about using a single slip turnout rather than a double slip one,...positives vs negatives.??

I have in mind a place where I think the single slip would be advisable over a double, but before describing my particular situation I was looking to hear generalities about the two.
The generality is that a double slip switch has all the functionality of a double crossover. Each incoming track can exit to each of the opposite tracks. It takes the place of 4 turnouts. With a single slip, only one of the incoming tracks can exit to both the other tracks. The other track can only cross through to the opposite exiting track, not to the opposing track. A single slip would be like two turnouts and a crossing.

Slip Switch Equivalent.jpg


So the answer to your question is, yes a double is twice as complicated, but it depends on what routing is needed.
From your scenario, it looks to me like trains from both tracks need to be able to choose either route in both directions. If that is a correct assessment, it dictates a double.
 
#4
I don't see why you want a single slip switch. It will really limit the operation. Slip switch at X with four routes into it: Main, Siding, Left wye leg, Right wye leg. (ignore the periods, they are there to space the letters out).

M...………..L
…….X...…..
S...………...R

A single slip will allow trains to go M-L, S-L, M-R, but not S-R or S-R, S-L, M-R but not M-L.
With a double slip all routes are available: M-L, M-R, S-L, S-R.
With a single slip switch, you have to give up either M-L or S-R.

I also still do not understand why you think reversing direction is an issue in a slip switch, you still have points on either side of the frog, You will have to check whether points on either side of the frog are lined correctly. You are going to operate in both directions over the switch, what difference does it make if you stop and reverse on the switch?
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#5
I'll review your posting Dave, and come back with my justification if I can reaffirm it in my mind.

Meanwhile, have a look at my next posting, and perhaps that will help explain why I chose the now 'mysterious, simple turnout' I have in my possession,...what is it?
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#6
A Case of Mistaken ID, ….Single Slip or What?



All of the slip-type turnouts I had in my possession were double slips by Peco and Roco. There was no doubts that these were dbl slips.



I had another slip turnout that I just assumed was a single slip as it had only one control motor. Now I am unsure if I identified it correctly?? Here is a photo of the two types together.




Then here is a photo of that mysterious turnout I first identified as a single slip. It is labeled an 'Atlas', made in Austria (likely by Roco), #4547. As I inspect it more closely it appears NOT to be a single-slip in our conventional thinking, but rather some 'automated crossover' ??










Here are a couple of other photos I found on the internet,...















Has anyone else experience with such a turnout? ...and how would you name it??
 

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
#7
I would suggest using the highest quality turnout you can find that will ensure trouble free operation over the coming years.

I have all Atlas Custom Line turnouts on my layout and for the most part have been trouble free, but if I was planning using a double or single slip turnout, my first choice wouldn't be an Atlas product, but the highest quality nickel silver product I could find.

You have an interesting track plan.

Greg
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#8
A Case of Mistaken ID, ….Single Slip or What?
it correctly?? Here is a photo of the two types together.

Then here is a photo of that mysterious turnout I first identified as a single slip. It is labeled an 'Atlas', made in Austria (likely by Roco), #4547. As I inspect it more closely it appears NOT to be a single-slip in our conventional thinking, but rather some 'automated crossover' ??
Has anyone else experience with such a turnout? ...and how would you name it??
I would call it a double slip turnout. The translation from German calls it an "intersection switch".

"The Roco intersection switch is built as a crossover. The drive is switched on. The two outer metal heart pieces or not powered." The second paragraph says something about "See circuit diagram for switching the ?polarity?" Unfortunately I've not had German since high school 40 years ago. I can assume that in this case by "heart pieces" they mean what we call a "frog".
 
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trailrider

Well-Known Member
#9
I have several Atlas "double-slip" (DSS) turnouts on my layout, (One is brass, the other is nickel-silver. Both function the same.) The neat thing about the Atlas DSS is that a train can't derail if the turnout is thrown "against" the approaching train! The worst thing that can happen is that the train will exit the turnout in the wrong route. The switch machine has control of all points simultaneously, whereas DSS made by other manufacturers, like Shinohara, have each pair of points controlled separately from each other. Thus, two switch machines or ground throws are required, and the points can be thrown against an oncoming train, resulting in a derailment! The diagram on the Rocco package shows a single switch machine, which might make it similar to the Atlas DSS in function. The turnout on the right in the photo showing two turnouts has two switch machines, and each machine appears to control one set of points at one end of the turnout, which might make it function like a Shinohara-type. Do I make myself clear...as mud?
 

trailrider

Well-Known Member
#14
One more thing: I can't quite tell, but I think you may have either a wye or a reversing loop or loops, where the DSS connects to your other track. I would, therefore, place insulated rail joiners on either end of the DSS where the tracks connect to the main line. You can either feed power to the DSS from your main bus, with a DPDT toggle to reverse the polarity to match whichever lead in your train is coming from. For DCC you might want to use autoreversers. I definitely would use the DSS with the single switch machine, either the Atlas or the ROCCO. but NOT the one with the two switch machines.
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#15
Where you intend to put it, I would say you'll need the double slip to take advantage of all the route/track changes available with it. The single slip would not work because one side of it is a straight track and doesn't form an X but instead a K. It will have to be able to select either of the exit routes from either of the entry ones. You may also have to use a LH turnout of a higher frog # down by the container crane to smooth the transition from the one above it.
It looks as though you are using fixed length set track. Investigate the possibility of cutting/trimming the ends to suit the actual lengths needed to align the rest, or pieces of flex track cut to suit.
I like the peninsular and associated roundhouse plan, a nice flow to it.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#16
Yes Toot, I will be using flex track, but for mock-up purposes I can't get the Atlas flex track to hold a curve, so I have to use pieces of set track.

Thanks, I think it is beginning to flow nicely as well
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#17
Which Double Slip to Use?

So here is my particular situation. I have two spur lines off of the mainlines (those 2 white curves at the top of the photos) feeding my peninsula area. It is desired that these 2 entering lines be able to select between either of 2 lines themselves. The most 'compact' manner to do such a thing is a slip switch.




















We have now determined that I have 2 types of double slip turnouts,...one that is controlled by a single mechanism, and one that is controlled by two mechanisms.



First Question:
Is there a preference for which style of double slip to use here? Does one have capabilities that the other does not??


Second Question: Switching routines
(a subject I am not familiar with at all). Lets suppose a fairly long freight train attempts to enter the peninsula area on one of these two 'spurs' off the mainlines. Then it is desired to divide this consist up into groups of cars that might be taken to either of the 2 container tracks. or switched off that dbl-curve turnout (the one that follows the dbl-slip) into other portions of the peninsula complex.
I suspect some of this 'sorting of the cars' would involve the heavy use of this dbl-slip turnout that is in question, and the other incoming track as a temporary holding track? Plus the switching loco, that is pulling these groups of cars, needs some sort of way to get back around to the front of these deposited cars to pick up more singular or groups of cars??


Maybe I should ask this 'switching question' in its own separate subject thread??
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#18
First Question:
Is there a preference for which style of double slip to use here? Does one have capabilities that the other does not??
Personally I would choose the single motor just because it is more simple. The turnout is either through or diverging. Regardless of entry direction one knows I'm going to cross straight through or diverge. With two motors one has to think about which track they are approaching on and set the approach side accordingly, or just wire the two motors together so the act like a single one. So I guess, in other words, as far as train operation there is no difference. It is a "how to control" issue.

Second Question: Switching routines
(a subject I am not familiar with at all). Lets suppose a fairly long freight train attempts to enter the peninsula area on one of these two 'spurs' off the mainlines. Then it is desired to divide this consist up into groups of cars that might be taken to either of the 2 container tracks. or switched off that dbl-curve turnout (the one that follows the dbl-slip) into other portions of the peninsula complex.
I suspect some of this 'sorting of the cars' would involve the heavy use of this dbl-slip turnout that is in question, and the other incoming track as a temporary holding track? Plus the switching loco, that is pulling these groups of cars, needs some sort of way to get back around to the front of these deposited cars to pick up more singular or groups of cars??
Usually a long freight train would go to the yard and be switched there. As the cars are broken up the ones for the industries on this peninsula area would be grouped together on a separate track. Those cars would then be brought onto the peninsula for spotting at the appropriate locations.

As for getting to the other side of the train. Train would pull in as yellow boxes (arrow is loco). Loco cuts off and pulls forward (red). Loco backs up (pink) past turnout behind train (possibly the double x), then reverses onto the backside of the train (green). Or of course the train could pull in from the yard - track far to the left. Movement would be the same concept, just on the other track. Or am I not understanding the question.
switching.jpg
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#19
Thought some might find this interesting,...another European manufacture managed to build a double slip switch with a single control mechanism. I have some of these.


Profi-track dbl slips by Fleischmann







Nice turnouts that I would be using on my new layout if the radi were so tight,...and if the flangeways weren't so large for my modern USA wheel sets
 





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