Signal and turnout control options


"(but automatic train running is a bit harder)"

That is a bit of an understatement.

JMRI is the product of a lot of work by a lot of folks - and it shows.

I use DecoderPro but in general, IMO, JMRI gives a new meaning to "rough edges".

TrainController is going to meet the needs of more folks with a lot less effort.

I'm retired but spent 30+ years as a programmer and I wouldn't undertake to use JMRI for automating a layout unless I was feeling the need to punish myself for some past wrongs. <g>

Frederick

 
I think it might help if Steve can clarify if he wants to do full train automation, or wants to control signals in a prototype manor, or something else.

Very true. One of the issues may be is you don't always know what you want to do until you know what you can do and how much it's going to cost.

Frederick
 
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the detailed feedback and suggestions. I've been very busy with work and had a family emergency that forced me to take a break from this, otherwise I would have replied much sooner.

I have been doing some research and it seems that Digitrax might be the best way to go for me. I like the fact that they have just about every component you need to get everything up and running. I like the loconet feature and how every component uses the feature and how I can connect to the laptop/computer using a PR3. I also like the fact you can use your I-pad or I-phone as a wireless throttle through JMRI (of course that's with any system probably).

I don't mind biting the bullet and changing out my DCC system to digitrax either. I like the MRC system but this one is only 3 amp and I have found they are limited as far as expansion and upgrading for other accessories and possibilities. I've been looking at the Digitrax Evo 5/8 amp starter set (just can't decide if I should do walk-around or wireless throttle for the initial unit).

I think the other items I would need are a PR3 to connect to my laptop/desktop, BLD-168's for occupancy detection, SEC8's for signals and DS64's for the tortoise turnouts I plan on buying down the road. Please let me know if I am missing something here....

As far as signals I think I'll stick to simple or prototype for now rather than full automation, maybe that's something I can do on the next layout when I get better at this DCC/signal thing and using JMRI. Seems like there are not a lot of shopping options out there right now for N scale signals. I hope that changes soon.

I am also considering whether I should even take on this task on the existing layout - and how much wiring modification it is going to take to accomplish. Or if I should start getting the components for my new layout when I move in a year or so. I'm planning on starting a new layout once I move and I plan to start it using DCC from the start rather than this one that originated block DC and then was converted to DCC.

Thanks again for the help and feedback!
Steve
 
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Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the detailed feedback and suggestions.

I think the other items I would need are a PR3 to connect to my laptop/desktop, BLD-168's for occupancy detection, SEC8's for signals and DS64's for the tortoise turnouts I plan on buying down the road. Please let me know if I am missing something here....

Thanks again for the help and feedback!
Steve

You really should re-think going the Digitrax route for things like occupancy detection and signal control.

The command stations are good but the other stuff is way behind the times when it comes to design.

Occupancy sensing using current detection coils is a much better approach than the diodes used by Digitrax.

To be sure it's your layout, your money and your call but I've been through all this once before.

I started with the Digitrax items but a fellow modeler who had "been there before" told me what I am telling others.

RR-CirKits is the way to go. Completely LocoNet compatible but way ahead of Digitrax when it comes to design, implementation and installation.

Frederick
 
You really should re-think going the Digitrax route for things like occupancy detection and signal control.

The command stations are good but the other stuff is way behind the times when it comes to design.

Occupancy sensing using current detection coils is a much better approach than the diodes used by Digitrax.

To be sure it's your layout, your money and your call but I've been through all this once before.

I started with the Digitrax items but a fellow modeler who had "been there before" told me what I am telling others.

RR-CirKits is the way to go. Completely LocoNet compatible but way ahead of Digitrax when it comes to design, implementation and installation.

Frederick

The first time I went to the RR-CirKits website though it didn't seem like they had much selection - just the watchman and tower LLC. Turns out I had gone to one site that didn't have all their products listed but only two so I didn't get a chance to really read into the RR-CirKits that much.

Thanks for posting this, I am reading up on them now. How do they interface with the digitrax system if they don't use loconet? Also are these compatible with MRC?

Thanks
Steve
 
The first time I went to the RR-CirKits website though it didn't seem like they had much selection - just the watchman and tower LLC. Turns out I had gone to one site that didn't have all their products listed but only two so I didn't get a chance to really read into the RR-CirKits that much.

Thanks for posting this, I am reading up on them now. How do they interface with the digitrax system if they don't use loconet? Also are these compatible with MRC?

Thanks


Steve

Hi Steve,

The Simple Serial Bus (SSB) product line includes devices for occupancy detection (WatchMan), turnout control (MotorMan), signal control (SignalMan) and general input/output needs (TowerMan).

RR-CirKits also makes a number of (for lack of a better term) "I/O boards" that can connect to the TowerMan ports to handle different types of inputs and/or drive different types of loads.

So the TowerMan (and the Aux ports on the other boards) can handle more then just "logic level" inputs and outputs.

There is very little that the SSB devices cannot do when it comes to what you would need on your layout.

None of the devices require solder connections. It is either screw terminals or compression terminals for connecting to external devices like switch machines or signals.

In other cases you use 10 conductor flat cable (and matching connectors) that RR-CirKits can provide. When needed these cable are easy to make to any desired length with a pair of sharp scissors and a pair of pliers.

The WatchMan, MotorMan, SignalMan and TowerMan boards are all the same size and based on the same basic design. When you know how to program one you basically know how to program them all - with the exception of the functions that are unique to the task for which the board is designed.

All of the programming can be done with JMRI.


As to connecting to a command station like a Digitrax, the SSB devices ARE LocoNet compatible. They respond to normal LocoNet messages and send normal LocoNet messages.

The SSB bus uses just 3 "ordinary" wires where as the LocoNet connection is via 6 wire "silver satin" phone cable.

To connect a LocoNet connection from, say, the Digitrax command station all you need is the SSB Gateway. This little device provides both SSB connections and LocoNet connections and takes care of all communication between the LocoNet connections and the SSB connections.

It also can provide power for a limited number of SSB boards - up to about 1.5 amps of load. If you install more boards than the power supply that comes with the SSB Gateway can handle, it is a simple matter to connect a higher current power supply.

On my layout I installed a 5 amp power supply to handle all of my SSB devices.


The SSB devices generally cost the same or less than devices with the same functionality from other companies.

And customer service is top notch.

If you have any questions do not hesitate to ask.

Frederick
 
Frederick,

Thanks that was very helpful stuff. I went to the product page and it seemed a bit overwhelming at first but then found the schematic for set up that seemed to simplify things and understand better what each item does. That and your description and summary of products make it easier to understand.

http://www.rr-cirkits.com/wiring/ssb-wiring.jpg

Guess I need to start to figure out how many of each component I will need. I'm currently deployed so it will be a project I will take on when I return in a couple months. In the meantime, I'd like to start purchasing the components so I they are here when I get home and start the project.

Thanks again
Steve
 
Two questions on the RE-CirKits.....

I read some sites that said you need the locobuffer and PR3 if running a digitrax loconet command station and other say one or the other. Can anyone clarify?

Second question if running searchlight/target type signals will the signalman work or do you have to use the SDB-4? If so is that still compatible with the signalman?

Thanks in advance
Steve


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Two questions on the RE-CirKits.....

I read some sites that said you need the locobuffer and PR3 if running a digitrax loconet command station and other say one or the other. Can anyone clarify?

Second question if running searchlight/target type signals will the signalman work or do you have to use the SDB-4? If so is that still compatible with the signalman?

Thanks in advance
Steve

A LocoBuffer is a simple interface between a computer and a LocoNet network.

A PR3 can be an interface like the LocoBuffer OR a programmer for Digitrax sound decoders.

To change modes on a PR3 you have to push a button on the PR3, which means of course having access to the unit.


If you only need a computer interface the LocoBuffer is less expensive, smaller and requires no access.


Before RR-CirKits developed the SSB line of products they had the TC-64 which had 8 ports to which you connected cards like the SDB-4 to configure the port for a given function.

They have cards for occupancy, turnout control, relay control, signal control, etc.

For most purposes the TC-64 has been supplanted by the SSB line.

When property configured and wired to your signals the SignalMan can drive searchlight signals itself - no need for a SDB-4 as was used with a TC-64.

The manual for the SignalMan discusses how to do this for the various types of signals that it supports.


Some of the I/O modules that were originally designed for use with the TC-64 still have a place with the SSB line (the TowerMan or Aux ports on the other boards).

For example the RB-4 could be connected to a TowerMan if you needed 1 to 4 relatively robust relays (SPDT 10A).

Frederick
 
A LocoBuffer is a simple interface between a computer and a LocoNet network.

A PR3 can be an interface like the LocoBuffer OR a programmer for Digitrax sound decoders.

To change modes on a PR3 you have to push a button on the PR3, which means of course having access to the unit.


If you only need a computer interface the LocoBuffer is less expensive, smaller and requires no access.


Before RR-CirKits developed the SSB line of products they had the TC-64 which had 8 ports to which you connected cards like the SDB-4 to configure the port for a given function.

They have cards for occupancy, turnout control, relay control, signal control, etc.

For most purposes the TC-64 has been supplanted by the SSB line.

When property configured and wired to your signals the SignalMan can drive searchlight signals itself - no need for a SDB-4 as was used with a TC-64.

The manual for the SignalMan discusses how to do this for the various types of signals that it supports.


Some of the I/O modules that were originally designed for use with the TC-64 still have a place with the SSB line (the TowerMan or Aux ports on the other boards).

For example the RB-4 could be connected to a TowerMan if you needed 1 to 4 relatively robust relays (SPDT 10A).

Frederick

Frederick,

Ok, I'll get into that signalman manual and read up on them. Good to know the extra parts won't be required by the sound of it.

On the PR3/Locobuffer - so if I use Digitrax decoders and plan on programming them in the future do you recommend the PR3? I wouldn't need the locobuffer then correct? Just the PR3 and an SSB adapter right?

Thanks again for the help.
Steve
 
Frederick,

Ok, I'll get into that signalman manual and read up on them. Good to know the extra parts won't be required by the sound of it.

On the PR3/Locobuffer - so if I use Digitrax decoders and plan on programming them in the future do you recommend the PR3? I wouldn't need the locobuffer then correct? Just the PR3 and an SSB adapter right?

Thanks again for the help.
Steve

You only need the PR3 if you plan to upload new sounds to a Digitrax decoder with sound.

For normal decoder programming you just need your command station.

But as I understand it you need to have access to the button on the PR3 to put it into the mode for uploading sounds.

So this would not be convenient if you wanted to mount the device under your layout.

If I was going to be needing to upload sound files I would keep the PR3 for the workbench and use the LocoBuffer for the computer-to-layout connection.

Frederick
 
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Thanks for the detailed responses Frederick, I appreciate all the help. I'm sure I'll be picking your brain when I receive the components and are ready to install.

Steve
 
Glad to help in anyway I can.

Frederick

Frederick,

Its been a while since this conversation ended. However, I’ve moved across country and started a new layout build since then and I’m to the point I’m wiring up for block detection. Might have some RRCirkits questions as I go if you’re still able to assist.

Thanks
Steve
 
You could have a look at ARCOMORA. It's a range of Arduino shields including free software downloads. There's a DCC servo & accessry decoder, very versatile, and there's a DCC sinal decoder with which it is possible to program your desired aspects. Also a loconet sensor feedback module is available. Nico ships them worldwide without profit motive, just against costprice + shipping.
 
The PR-3 or the newer PR-4 also provides a display of what the values were programmed for the CV's. I have a PR-4 and and enjoy the ease and little time it requires to do programming.

It will only program sound files to Digitrax decoders.

Greg
 



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