Passenger v Freight?


They did run a train to Gardiner, MT from Livingston, MT during the summer months to take tourists to the park. Regular service ceased around 1952 but occasional trains did run until 1955. Here a post card of the station in Gardiner, MT. Gardiner High School now sits in the middle of the loop where the station was. Check it out on Google Earth. You can trace the old road bed. A few years back I rode along the old right of way from Livingston to Gardiner.

northernpacificdepotgardiner[1].jpg

That's what's nice about freelancing. You can do what you want. In my twisted world, they moved the service for my Logan Valley to take over the service, using NP equipment, but taking passengers from Logan, MT to West Yellowstone, MT instead of Gardiner, MT.

Getting ready to go to the airport and pick up a rental car for the trip. I will be checking in by phone or laptop from time to time (if I can find any time).
 
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I have tons of shortline and branchline activity around me. The Amtrak mainline runs a few miles north of my house. Most freight and passenger traffic is pretty segregated between dedicated rail lines. NS can generally only run over the Amtrak line overnight when traffic is slow.
My past modern layout was freight only because of this.
My current layout is set during the Golden Age of rail in 1925. I run a passenger train in sequence between freight trains. Its mostly a nuisance to the freight operations. It would be a good job for a second operator. During that period every railroad worth anything had a passenger train. Mail contracts hopefully offset the cost of providing regular service. The ICC generally didn't allow railroads to end passenger service.

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I model the IC from Centralia, IL to Effingham, IL in 1955 so passenger operations are a big part of my layout. Four railroads operated in Centralia in that era. In addition to the IC passenger traffic, the CB&Q served Centralia with a gas electric in that era. The Missouri and Illinois had trackage rights on the IC through downtown before continuing west and they had a daily passenger train. The IC crossed the Pennsylvania in Effingham and it's passenger depot was right next to the Pennsy depot, in fact the buildings were almost identical.
 
WJLI26 said:
IPassenger excursions, and Officials Trains, while generating a lot of railfan interest, are rare in general.
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Not only rare but boring to model. One set of equipment that deadheads to the origin point, runs the excursion, then deadheads back home. Yawn. Nothing like the Amtrak train arriving in Denver that then had to be split up into three trains: the Desert Wind, Pioneer, and California Zephyr. OR the old days of the Santa Fe when the Chief would pull into Ash Fork, drop the mail car from Kansas City and a coach to go to Phoenix, pick up the Phoenix sleeper, and spot the train so the diner is by the commissary for a quick resupply, before getting under way -- on schedule -- in 20 minutes.
 
Nothing like the Amtrak train arriving in Denver that then had to be split up into three trains: the Desert Wind, Pioneer, and California Zephyr. OR the old days of the Santa Fe when the Chief would pull into Ash Fork, drop the mail car from Kansas City and a coach to go to Phoenix, pick up the Phoenix sleeper, and spot the train so the diner is by the commissary for a quick resupply, before getting under way -- on schedule -- in 20 minutes.
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Don't forget the head end traffic that paid for the name trains that usually didn't carry it. Besides mail, there were express reefers and boxcars. Many trains might have only had one or two coaches but 15 or more cars full of high speed freight of some type. The IC and the PRR interchanged a lot of head end passenger traffic at Effingham, IL. There was a lot more to passenger operations then there is now. Looking at some IC passenger consists from Memphis in 1946 you see that on October 6, train 25 "The Southern Express had 17 cars, 3 passenger cars and the other 14 were either mail or express cars. 5 PRR cars, 1 NRC car and 8 IC cars. The NRC car carried milk for New Orleans.
 
For me it's always come down to what looks nice, what I love, or what ignites that spark inside me and makes fall in love with a particular train. I'm currently modelling the BNSF and NS in the Midwest, but the majority of the locomotives in my collection are Amtrak diesels. I have around 49 N Scale locomotives now, including 10 P42s and 2 F40PHs just because Amtrak is special to me. I've met some wonderful staff and passengers on board a number of Amtrak services over the years and I hold that very dear.

I can prototypically model most Superliner trains and some Viewliner trains in various phases, even though the length of these trains makes them unrealistic next to 12-to-16 car freight trains, though layout restrictions mean train lengths can't exceed 16 cars. Despite this I often run Amtrak trains in their prototype consists just because I love them.

In my miniature world, federal funding, trackage rights, passenger moods (right, WJLI26?! Happy Preiser people!!), timetabling and service standards can be whatever I feel like they want to be at the time. It can be the golden age of passenger trains every day.
 
As they say, it's your railroad. Run it as you see it. Philosophically, Prototype modeling is not the end all and be all of the hobby. You have to enjoy your layout and have fun. When I read some of the prototype operational scenarios, published in model magazines, it reminds me of when I was working on the railroad, and couldn't wait to retire. :rolleyes:

However, it is not unprototypical to see short freight trains along side of full consist passenger trains on the Northeast Corridor, and some other routes, so what you describe is prototypical...
 
For me that organization is fun to replicate. I work construction for a living. My late uncle who worked in a factory loved his Lionel circle of track.

I run a full car card system for freight and passenger gets run when I feel like it or every other train to keep the staging yard open. I mostly think about the details that affect where the car is going. I don't have the imagination to write a complete story for each car.

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WJLI26 said:
Philosophically, Prototype modeling is not the end all and be all of the hobby. You have to enjoy your layout and have fun. When I read some of the prototype operational scenarios, published in model magazines, it reminds me of when I was working on the railroad, and couldn't wait to retire.
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I am with you there. There are many boring situations where I am known to say, "That is why they have to pay people to do that in the real world".
 
Since I love riding the rails, I love passenger trains. But not to model. While there is some switching opportunity, a passenger train only makes one, or a few, stops in a town, dependent on size of town. A freight train may make many stops. Lots more switching opportunities.
 
OldGuyHO said:
Since I love riding the rails, I love passenger trains. But not to model. While there is some switching opportunity, a passenger train only makes one, or a few, stops in a town, dependent on size of town. A freight train may make many stops. Lots more switching opportunities.
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Not to mention much easier to fit into a normal model railroading space.
 
I also like passenger trains a lot and deciding on a RR and location was heavily influenced by the respective passenger trains that fitted. Having said that, i think that operating the freight trains will be more interesting than the passenger ones (given my layout and its limitations, which makes Iron Horseman's comment above being very spot on!). The same will hold true for my next layout even though it will be much bigger and will have broad curves. In both cases i would like to devote time/effort on the passenger trains (kit-bashing the coach cars etc...) even if i wont be able to devote layout space for coach yards etc. They (the passenger trains) look great (imho) and will keep things busy for the freight train on the layout (ie clearing the main etc...).
 
Passenger trains just never piqued my interest. Since I model the years 1978-1994, they would seem out of place anyway. Not that I remain truly prototypical, I have freight cars (tankers) from 2006. Besides, I like SD's, GP's and cabooses more than cab units.
Willie
 
FWIW: My first interest was switching, because I used to sit on my front porch and watch the reading yard crew switching the local industries in close proximity to where I lived. Secondly, my interest was directed to the passenger trains that stopped at the local depot(s), especially, the B&O passenger trains with their diesel power and classic tri-color color scheme. Through freights never stopped, they just roared through at 40 - 50 mph, so they were less interesting.

Passenger trains on the Reading, and CNJ, were hauled with various road switchers, GP7s, RS3s Baldwin AS16, and FM H-16-44 and H24-66 (Trainmasters). PRR passenger trains on the Delmarva were generally pulled by RS3s, so it wasn't all cab units. Main line PRR of course were GG1 powered, and B&O trains were generally pulled by E7s.

My current layout is designed as an urban branchline with numerous industrial customers, based on the line I used to observe from my front porch. There was no passenger service there, other than the very rare rail ramble in connection with a riverboat cruise. Conceivably, this line could have supported and may at one time did support a commuter train operation. I find commuter rail relatively mundane, vs modeling intercity passenger trains, but intercity trains won't fit on my layout, so for the nuisance factor, I plan on incorporating some level of commuter service. Couple of coaches pulled by a road switcher, or possibly a push pull operation.
 
santafewillie said:
Passenger trains just never piqued my interest. Since I model the years 1978-1994, they would seem out of place anyway. Not that I remain truly prototypical, I have freight cars (tankers) from 2006. Besides, I like SD's, GP's and cabooses more than cab units.
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I don't know what it is that gives one the passenger train bug. I think for me as a child both my uncle and grand parents had farms right on the Santa Fe main line. Working in the fields one would get the daily parade of trains. The grandparents farm was just outside of Lamar CO. so the trains were going slow for the station stop. Some times we would go to the station and see some of the lesser trains like the Fast Mail and Express/Grand Canyon do head end switching (Lamar was large enough to have a separate freight/express house). After Lamar, going east, there were no stops for the high end trains until Garden City Kansas (the speedway), so at my Uncles farm just outside of Granada the trains could be going by at 100 mph or so. I got to see many aspects of passenger operations. I wish I could have captured a fraction of what I saw on film or video.

I'm assuming that is what gave me the passenger bug, since I only rode on the train once.

As for GPs one of my favorite trains is the Santa Fe #67/#68 mixed train daily from Wichita to Pratt Kansas. Single GP7 or 9, few freight cars and a Cabbage (coach, caboose, express, baggage). When I saw it the locos were always blue, but I've got pictures from earlier days when the loco was in zebra stripe.
 
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JWhite (and others):

You might find this a little interesting.

Referencing your, "The Missouri and Illinois had trackage rights on the IC through downtown before continuing west and they had a daily passenger train." reminded me of something:

When I was braking on the MoPac out of Bismarck MO in the mid-1970s, as an extra-board brakeman (and usually first-out) I often caught the MoPac's Monday-thru-Saturday 7am to 9pm local switch engine train. Most every day part of our work was to go pick up the loads and empties on the Missouri & Illinois RR (M&I) interchange track that they had set out that previous night, and leave our M&I outbound railcars in their place. That was fairly easy work, and the south end of the interchange track was pretty close to the MoPac depot. I also remember that a good portion of the M&I-delivered gondolas had sand in them - I think from Flat River MO (the town name that has since changed its name to "Park Hills").

The funny thing is that I may have seen some of the M&I crew, but never met any of them. And as I recall, at that time period they always did their interchange work at night, and immediately disappeared (probably for shuteye.)

I'd practically forgotten (40 years ago) about the M&I RR, and your comment reminded me. Thanks.

DougC
 
Thanks for the info Doug. The M&I (along with the MOPAC) are long gone. In fact of the 4 roads I model in Centralia in 1955, none of them exist today. The IC which is the main focus of my layout is now the CN. The CB&Q is now BNSF and the Southern is now Norfolk Southern. All passenger service is Amtrak. The M&I along with it's tracks has passed into history.

I haven't been able to find a lot of information on the M&I. I've got a photo of their freight house in Centralia, a photo of an RS2 a steam loco (which I'm pretty sure the M&I was all diesel by my era, 1955) and some cabooses. Bowser has released a couple M&I freight cars. My research hasn't been able to come up with a picture of any of their passenger equipment or any details of the consist that went through Centralia daily.

One of the more interesting aspects of prototype modeling is the research, but it's also one of the most frustrating at times. The amount of information abot things that happened a mere 60 years ago just amazes me sometimes.

Jeff White
Alma, IL
 
Jeff:

You might want to try the mopac.org (Missouri Pacific Historical Society) regarding the M&I.

However, as you know the M&I is one of 100s (1000s?) of small and large railroads that are now fallen flags.

DougC
 
Thanks Doug, I was able to find more info on the M&I there. I also found a link that led me to some photos of their only passenger equipment (a motorcar and trailer) and a head on wreck between an M&I stem loco and an IC steam loco that had to have occurred in Centralia on the couple miles of shared track.

Jeff
 
Jeff:

You're welcome.

AHHHHH! Digging at history - sometimes frustrating, sometimes fun (rewarding.)

DougC
 
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