Passenger Train

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Selector

Well-Known Member
#2
Only one or more baggage cars (technically not freight, but close enough...), and one or more reefers with silk, meat, other perishables. Also, not technically freight per se, but there could be a railway post office car where mail is being sorted as the train moves. Otherwise, almost never a boxcar, flat car, hopper, tank car...not on passenger service.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#3
What freight cars might be found in a 1942 passenger train?
Very rare before WWII as they just used baggage cars, but:
express milk
express box
express reefer
Box and reefer would most likely painted for the railway express agency.
They would usually have special high speed trucks such as Allied Full Cushion, Barber S2, or GSC BX Trucks.

They became more common after WWII and REA even built their own special box cars in ummm 1955?.


 
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Espeefan

Well-Known Member
#4
Depends on what you are trying to model. Let's not forget the mixed train. Out in the boonies you'd get short freight trains with a passenger coach. Small locals trains gathering stuff up and taking to the larger hubs. In a "name train"? Never. Express boxes and express reefers only, with high speed trucks and steam & signal lines. Traffic was very well managed during WW2.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#5
Oh yeah there is always the "mixed train daily". Here is a photo of my model of Santa Fe train #61 leaving Wichita Kansas in 1961 headed to Pratt. In 1940s this would have been a fairly long train. Any type of freight car would be found in a mixed, but very few passenger cars.


 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#6
Yesterday we were driving up Rt1 just north of St Augustine, Fl and spotted a fairly long FEC freight train headed south, At thetail end of the train were two passenger cars, one FEC and the other a private one.

All of these FEC trains that come thru now are running with a nature gas supplycar between the 2 locomotives
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
Yesterday we were driving up Rt1 just north of St Augustine, Fl and spotted a fairly long FEC freight train headed south, At thetail end of the train were two passenger cars, one FEC and the other a private one.

All of these FEC trains that come thru now are running with a nature gas supplycar between the 2 locomotives
Something I hadn't considered with locos using Natural gas for fuel. Do they have spark plugged ignition systems instead of diesel's compression ignition (no spark plugs or only glow plug igniters) system?
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#8
At thetail end of the train were two passenger cars, one FEC and the other a private one.
Seems the practice of "tacking" private cars onto freight trains has existed for some time, but just how AMTRAKS ban on them will affect their excursion trains, their doesn't seem to have been any news.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#9
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_storage
Liquid hydrogen or slush hydrogen may be used, as in the Space Shuttle. However liquid hydrogen requires cryogenic storage and boils around 20.268 K (−252.882 °C or −423.188 °F). Hence, its liquefaction imposes a large energy loss (as energy is needed to cool it down to that temperature). The tanks must also be well insulated to prevent boil off but adding insulation increases cost. Liquid hydrogen has less energy density by volume than hydrocarbon fuels such as gasoline by approximately a factor of four. This highlights the density problem for pure hydrogen: there is actually about 64% more hydrogen in a liter of gasoline (116 grams hydrogen) than there is in a liter of pure liquid hydrogen (71 grams hydrogen). The carbon in the gasoline also contributes to the energy of combustion.
Compressed hydrogen, by comparison, is stored quite differently. Hydrogen gas has good energy density by weight, but poor energy density by volume versus hydrocarbons, hence it requires a larger tank to store. A large hydrogen tank will be heavier than the small hydrocarbon tank used to store the same amount of energy, all other factors remaining equal. Increasing gas pressure would improve the energy density by volume, making for smaller, but not lighter container tanks (see hydrogen tank). Compressed hydrogen costs 2.1% of the energy content[1] to power the compressor. Higher compression without energy recovery will mean more energy lost to the compression step. Compressed hydrogen storage can exhibit very low permeation
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#10
Florida East Coast Railway converts locomotive fleet to LNG


FLORIDA East Coast Railway (FECR) has become the first North American railway to adopt liquefied natural gas (LNG) for its entire line-haul locomotive fleet.


https://www.railjournal.com/regions...oast-railway-converts-locomotive-fleet-to-lng


On November 9 FECR officially unveiled its modified fleet of 24 GE ES44AC locomotives, which operate in pairs with a purpose-built fuel tender supplied by Chart Industries, United States.


FECR is also the first railway to haul LNG as a commodity under a Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) waiver.


LNG has been tested as a locomotive fuel for 25 years in North America and is still under evaluation by several Class 1 railways including BNSF. The fuel has been adopted by FECR as an alternative to diesel for two reasons. Firstly, FECR’s line-haul locomotive fleet is captive, operating solely on the Jacksonville – Miami main line. Secondly, FECR has access to a ready source of LNG through Florida East Coast Industries’ LNG plant at Titusville.


The EPA Tier 3-compliant locomotives look identical to standard ES44ACs, but their GEVO prime-movers have been retrofitted by GE with its NextFuel low-pressure technology. According to the manufacturer, NextFuel gives railways the flexibility to run on both diesel fuel and LNG with up to 80% gas substitution or 100% diesel.


The gas substitution method retains diesel for compression ignition purposes. A 100% LNG engine would require a spark ignition, like a petrol engine.


The fuel tender was specially-developed by Chart Industries and consists of a cryogenic tank permanently mounted on a wagon, with the vehicle weighing in 67.9 tonnes when fully loaded.


The tender is designed to withstand a side impact from a lorry without damage and the vehicle is fully enclosed beneath the frame to eliminate the risk of a projectile piercing the tank from beneath in the event of a derailment. The design was extensively computer-modelled to simulate worse-case side impact and derailment scenarios.


The cryogenic tank comprises an inner stainless-steel tank within an outer carbon-steel tank, separated by a layer of thermal insulation, the tank is secured to the wagon and protected by a massive steel frame with collision posts.


A gasification system takes the LNG and transforms it into a gas for the fuel injection system. Safety features include valves that snap shut automatically if the LNG plumbing is damaged, preventing leakage.


Refilling an empty tender takes around 90 minutes and provides enough fuel for up to 1450km of heavy-haul service operating at a maximum speed of 97km/h. This is sufficient for an 1100km round trip between Jacksonville and Miami, including idling time and potential delays.
 
#11
Seems the practice of "tacking" private cars onto freight trains has existed for some time, but just how AMTRAKS ban on them will affect their excursion trains, their doesn't seem to have been any news.
When moving *unoccupied* passenger equipment in freight trains, it seems to be a common practice on most roads to handle them at or near the rear.
 
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#12
Liquid hydrogen or slush hydrogen may be used, as in the Space Shuttle. However liquid hydrogen requires cryogenic storage and boils around 20.268 K (−252.882 °C or −423.188 °F). Hence, its liquefaction imposes a large energy loss (as energy is needed to cool it down to that temperature). The tanks must also be well insulated to prevent boil off but adding insulation increases cost. Liquid hydrogen has less energy density by volume than hydrocarbon fuels such as gasoline by approximately a factor of four. This highlights the density problem for pure hydrogen: there is actually about 64% more hydrogen in a liter of gasoline (116 grams hydrogen) than there is in a liter of pure liquid hydrogen (71 grams hydrogen). The carbon in the gasoline also contributes to the energy of combustion.​
Compressed hydrogen, by comparison, is stored quite differently. Hydrogen gas has good energy density by weight, but poor energy density by volume versus hydrocarbons, hence it requires a larger tank to store. A large hydrogen tank will be heavier than the small hydrocarbon tank used to store the same amount of energy, all other factors remaining equal. Increasing gas pressure would improve the energy density by volume, making for smaller, but not lighter container tanks (see hydrogen tank). Compressed hydrogen costs 2.1% of the energy content[1] to power the compressor. Higher compression without energy recovery will mean more energy lost to the compression step. Compressed hydrogen storage can exhibit very low permeation
Natural Gas/LNG isn't hydrogen. It's a petroleum/hydrocarbon fuel.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#13
Seems the practice of "tacking" private cars onto freight trains has existed for some time, but just how AMTRAKS ban on them will affect their excursion trains, their doesn't seem to have been any news.
Just a clarification, Amtrak has not banned private cars. In fact, since they are a common carrier they cannot ban them. What they have done is get the tarrif changed such that they can refuse a private car if it might effect the schedule of the regular train. That generally means that a private car will not be set out in "Stafford Kansas" anymore (Stafford station closed last year) because that would be an extra 20 minutes --minimum-- to the schedule of the Southwest Chief which is already struggling to make its time. The private cars can now normally only be picked up and set out where Amtrak has normal switching, or long stops scheduled (like Denver), or a local switch engine available. Because of this the American Association of Private Railcar Owners had to change their convention location from Duluth to St. Paul. Sad, but it makes sense from Amtraks situation.
 

cajon

Active Member
#14
On some Santa Fe branchlines, they mostly used doodlebugs to pull 6-8 car trains. If there were more cars that needed to move cattle or grain, they used Alco, EMD or FairbamnksMorse. road units
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#15
AMTRAK had announced this on March 28 about the use of their equipment for excursion use, although at that time it was unclear as to the extent. Maybe they have softened their stance (or negotiated more favorable hirage fees) with AAPRCO.
“There may be a few narrow exceptions to this policy in order to support specific strategic initiatives, for example trial service in support of growing new scheduled service. Otherwise, one-time trips and charters are immediately discontinued,” the notice adds.
 

Y3a

Stuck in the 1930's
#16
AMTRAK has certainly screwed the Steam excursions like 611. Its a shame so may folks contributed to it being put back together, only for it to sit.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#17
AMTRAK has certainly screwed the Steam excursions like 611. Its a shame so may folks contributed to it being put back together, only for it to sit.
Why is it Amtrak's fault that the NS will no longer run excursions and only allow the locomotive to be ferried over their rails? We have seen this from NS before. Everytime the leadership changes we get new rules. Remember NS are the ones that intentionally depowered the restored 611 and 1218, forcing the 611 to be restored again.

Perhaps they should just move them to Cheyenne. All the UP steam maintenance equipment is brand new.
 
#18
AMTRAK had announced this on March 28 about the use of their equipment for excursion use, although at that time it was unclear as to the extent. Maybe they have softened their stance (or negotiated more favorable hirage fees) with AAPRCO.
“There may be a few narrow exceptions to this policy in order to support specific strategic initiatives, for example trial service in support of growing new scheduled service. Otherwise, one-time trips and charters are immediately discontinued,” the notice adds.
I think that's for the renting of their cars and locomotives for special excursion trains, not tacking a privately owned car onto the back of a regularly scheduled train.
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#19
I think that's for the renting of their cars and locomotives for special excursion trains, not tacking a privately owned car onto the back of a regularly scheduled train.
I can understand them not being prepared to interfere with their scheduled trains etc. The ploblem for the private car owners is now to find any operators who will do it. Freight carriers already have enough problems with backed up trains. Any abandoned, well kept trackage going cheap?
 



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