NJ Transit Silver, Metro North silver and other paint problems

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#1
I am finally getting back to some serious painting, and thought I would start on one of my someday models....

Way back when, I bought an Overland (Brass) HO NJ Transit U-34CH as the price was good and "someday......."

Well someday has come, and I decided to look through all the notes I had made on paint.

Somewhere I had read that whilst the Amtrak Silver (non-metallic) is called Platinum Mist, the NJ Transit silver is called silver mist, and that someone made this. I also started to write some notes about Metro-North silver but now cannot read them

After slapping myself for making bad notes, I started to research who might make something that I could use. And I have come up with....... nothing...

So..... Can anyone recommend an enamel/oil based paint (for painting brass) that would serve for NJ Transit and/or Metro North. I do realize that once they have been weathered down they are likely to look like to same dust light gray.........

Also whilst on the subject, does anyone have suggestions for the same in Acrylic for painting plastic.......

And just to start a fight with myself.......

after waiting too long for Atlas to actually deliver their Alco C420 in LIRR Blue/Yellow, I have decided to paint my own brass ones. The question is what is the right Blue?? I think D&H blue, is too light even taking into account the 35+ year old chromes I am using as a reference, the LIRR is a deeper blue. I have tried EMD blue (like EMD used on the Oakway Leasing SD60 fleet for BN) but that is too flat).

I know that getting blue just right can be a b$&@h, as I grew up in the UK during the Blue Diesel period, and the best blue I ever managed was on a scratch built diesel with some paint (begged for) from the local BR maintenance depot---- even then it looked too flat until I polished the model with an oily rag (by mistake) and bingo! The problem of course was that I could never keep the dust of it, but found that 3 very very light coats of a gloss varnish (french polish diluted with 91% Isopropyl) gave a good approximation. However no doubt all the really good spirit based varnishes are difficult to get (for very good reason).

So does anyone have a suggestion for LIRR blue as used on the C420s when yellow was being (early to mid 70s?) used not the later blue used with white/gray?
 

NYSW F45

Active Member
#2
I am finally getting back to some serious painting, and thought I would start on one of my someday models....

Way back when, I bought an Overland (Brass) HO NJ Transit U-34CH as the price was good and "someday......."

Well someday has come, and I decided to look through all the notes I had made on paint.

Somewhere I had read that whilst the Amtrak Silver (non-metallic) is called Platinum Mist, the NJ Transit silver is called silver mist, and that someone made this. I also started to write some notes about Metro-North silver but now cannot read them

After slapping myself for making bad notes, I started to research who might make something that I could use. And I have come up with....... nothing...

So..... Can anyone recommend an enamel/oil based paint (for painting brass) that would serve for NJ Transit and/or Metro North. I do realize that once they have been weathered down they are likely to look like to same dust light gray.........

Also whilst on the subject, does anyone have suggestions for the same in Acrylic for painting plastic.......

And just to start a fight with myself.......

after waiting too long for Atlas to actually deliver their Alco C420 in LIRR Blue/Yellow, I have decided to paint my own brass ones. The question is what is the right Blue?? I think D&H blue, is too light even taking into account the 35+ year old chromes I am using as a reference, the LIRR is a deeper blue. I have tried EMD blue (like EMD used on the Oakway Leasing SD60 fleet for BN) but that is too flat).

I know that getting blue just right can be a b$&@h, as I grew up in the UK during the Blue Diesel period, and the best blue I ever managed was on a scratch built diesel with some paint (begged for) from the local BR maintenance depot---- even then it looked too flat until I polished the model with an oily rag (by mistake) and bingo! The problem of course was that I could never keep the dust of it, but found that 3 very very light coats of a gloss varnish (french polish diluted with 91% Isopropyl) gave a good approximation. However no doubt all the really good spirit based varnishes are difficult to get (for very good reason).

So does anyone have a suggestion for LIRR blue as used on the C420s when yellow was being (early to mid 70s?) used not the later blue used with white/gray?

Are you painting the Uboat in the NJDOT/EL bluebird scheme or the silver disco stripe scheme? The silver disco scheme, i dont think platinum mist would look right. To dark, alot of the pics i've seen they look like they were painted a shade of silver. The bluebird scheme, this U34CH DECALS link says what blue and silver to use under the "the model" section. Here's the decal page for the NJDOT . I guess you could use Microscale, herald king or highball graphics decals for the silver painted ones, just piece them together.


LIRR decals, I found this LIRR DECALS page that might be helpfull with finding the right decals and color of blue for them.
 
#3
To Clarify........

Are you painting the Uboat in the NJDOT/EL bluebird scheme or the silver disco stripe scheme? The silver disco scheme, i dont think platinum mist would look right. To dark, alot of the pics i've seen they look like they were painted a shade of silver. The bluebird scheme, this U34CH DECALS link says what blue and silver to use under the "the model" section. Here's the decal page for the NJDOT . I guess you could use Microscale, herald king or highball graphics decals for the silver painted ones, just piece them together.


LIRR decals, I found this LIRR DECALS page that might be helpfull with finding the right decals and color of blue for them.

=========================

Oh I am certInly going to paint it Silver with Disco Stripes, apart front Branif Airlines what is more 1970s. The problem I have is getting that silver mist right. Even the atlas NJT GP40 or. Walthers Comet Coach don't get it right unless aYou add a few weathering watches. Perhaps a natural satin finish silver with a gloss varnish for decalling and weathering and then a satin as a final finish. I guess I don't want to ruin the uboat.
 
#5
Njt p40

yea the platinum mist i used on my njt p40 would not look right on the uboat, to dark and not enough silvery to it.
The NJ Transit P40, that is one I gave wanted to do, but finding a good drawing and the livery is tough. I have seen some decals but the black "bib" just cries out to be masked and sprayed rather than decaled. What did you base it on, Athearn, Kato or Overland?. I am planing on doing a Kato P42 as a Conn DOT P40 in New Haven McGinnis as soon As I have found someone who gas successfully stripped the body without melting it. The NJT is second on the list. Of course I could be lucky and find a couple of cheap Overland Brass Units..... The problem is I have not found one bad enough or cheap enough.

I akdo want to do a proper NJT GP40. I have a couple of Atlas ones but the Chassis us too short and there is no HEP extension on the Back. I saw a late 70s ALCO Bras EMD GO40L which us what the NJT ones were but the detail is not there. Guess I will kit bash Athearn Genesis Body. I recon a GP40W-2L chassis frame, and the back of a Genesis GP40W-2. Go Transit unit spliced to a bits of a GP40-2 or buy a bunch of cannon bits. Of course I also want some F40PH units. The Kato is an ok start but stripping it is such a pain. I really hope the new Rapido GMD F40 they are doing in Via Rail colors can be got at better than a $250 special commission price From Via. Rapido's tooling is always amazing and their drives are better than a lot of Brass. I have been hoarding Walthers HO Comet cars for such a day....... Now if Rapido did Comet card, then maybe an FL9........

I have an unpainted new Overland E9 which I am waiting to NJT ise i think the colors I want are valid for maybe only 9 months, Black Silver Disco Stripes Twin sealed Headlight and plated Mars are good for about its last 11 months of life, but I saw it at Hoboken in 83 or 84 and I want one.

Still gotta come up with the elusive silver must. It is for sure a silver plus silver gray, I have tried mixing it using Aluminums and Grays but It just does not have enough silver. Only model I saw it on that looked right was an Atlas NJT O Gauge Comet car.

In my more reflective moments I think about the B&O having managed to get a pair of lines on the lower Deck of the Verrazano, and then what might have happened in the early 70s. Or perhaps if there were two pairs if tunneled tracks from BushTerminal in Jersey city under manhatten to Williamsburgh just north of the Navy Yard. The LIRR and the subway system would have been different, but more importantly I would have to drive less to rail fan!!!!!!!

Just think, Metro North, Metro South, Brooklyn & South Jersey Lines, I can hear the sound of falling real estate prices as I type.
 

NYSW F45

Active Member
#6
I did my P40 with athearn bluebox dummy. I did minor details to it. At the time island model works had the license to NJT decals but has since let it go. So he cant sell the decals anymore. I masked off the nose to get the clownface, its not perfect but good enough for me. The rest of the decals are from island model works PL42AC set.

im in the slow process of kitbashing a GP40PH-2B for NJT. Slow is putting it mildly. My toddler son has taken up any spare time to work on models.
 
#7
Kids will do that, don't miss those toddler years, once gone you wish for them for ever. AIANAL (although I am not a lawyer) I am pretty sure that with public transportation agencies They. an trademark the trading name and logotype, but not the color. scheme. I am slowly experimenting with various methods of Making paint masks, as I hate decals, especially ones that cover large areas. I got it to the point of finding a couple of non stretchable vinyls. that hD sharp edge hold, But then I lost access to the laser cutter I was using. The think is that the more you can mask or tampo print to better it looks. But I say some synthetic rubber material that is not as flexible as tampo pads but which was cheap and could be carved on a most of the cheaper laser engravers. I saw some German Electric Locos, that have complex data panels everywhere done like this and it blew me away. If you can set/draw the tupe outline etc in corell or adobe illustrator, there are some neat utilities that calculate the extrusions (not 3D but 2.5 D). This guy hade figured out a really good two dimensional alignment system using pocket laser pointers and was using an old drill press to do the "tampo work". I got a brochure on short run pen imprinting that essentially did the same thing, and it gave me all sorts of wicked ideas about how to get better results than decals.

After all using a decent airbrush and a simple 2 or 3 axis cnc system you could paint without masking.

The other way id to look at what some folks have done with inkjet printers, especially modifying them for bulk ink delivery. ROCO is selling some modern Austrian Siemens Electrics that have been wrapped in some amazing vinyls to celebrate various composers. The HO reproduction is awesome but adds a lot to the cost. I bought one from a guy in Hong Kong who had seen them being produced and told me that it was done on a customized machine built around an epson 7 color plotter.

All of this interests me because if you could produce small runs simply, you could commission all the colors you want without having to worry about trademarks (Fair use doctrine). Although lots of noise is made about 3d printing I thing that 2d printing has far more to offer railroad modelers sooner than 3d printing. Also I can draft anything but cannot do anything freehand worth anything!!!)

I did my P40 with athearn bluebox dummy. I did minor details to it. At the time island model works had the license to NJT decals but has since let it go. So he cant sell the decals anymore. I masked off the nose to get the clownface, its not perfect but good enough for me. The rest of the decals are from island model works PL42AC set.

im in the slow process of kitbashing a GP40PH-2B for NJT. Slow is putting it mildly. My toddler son has taken up any spare time to work on models.
 

Cjcrescent

Master Mechanic
#8
I would recommend that you look at the different shades of silver from Alclad. These are metalizing lacquers. They are fussy to deal with, but give a fabulous finish. You can also get different "shades" of silver by painting separate coats of dullcoat to change the shade. There is a specific method that has to be followed to spray the lacquer on. After that, you can use your own methods for dulling it down.

But one thing you must do before you decal, is to get the silver dulled to the shade you want. If you don't dull first, the decals will leave a bright and shiney surface where the decal's film is, while the rest of the body is dull. What I do is dull the surface to what I want, then gloss it for the decals, then dull it again to seal the decals.

You also need to spray it extremely thin, and in several coats. There has been a real good series on the use of Alclad on MR Forums. If you go there search on Alclad or AntonioFP45.
 





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