New member -- Startup selection for HO

[k.ravi]

Hello all,

Joined this forum to know about model railroading and the setup. I am from India and love to setup model railroads. I have selected some basic items to setup my first railroad. If friends on this forum can help me with my selection that will be great. .

1. PECO Starter track set -- ST100. -- HO scale

2. Analogue controller -- 1 no -- brand/make ?? (with AC/DC power converter..)

3. hopper tank in black. (Metal wheels and Knuckle couplers with good details on body)

4. WABASH hopper in black -- (Metal wheels and Knuckle couplers with good details on body)

5. Any other freight car which matches the other two in preferably same colour (Metal wheels and Knuckle couplers with good details on body)

6. EMD GP9 DCC locomotive -- All metal wheels with all wheel drive

7. DEvice to operate switches / points automatically OR can I purchase separately and add-on ?

8. Signals -- were the lights work ---- can this be connected to track?


Seeking your help / advice to setup my first model railroad

Thanks

Have a great day
Ravi

 

[Iron Horseman]

Joined this forum to know about model railroading and the setup. I am from India and love to setup model railroads.

It sounds like you are looking for American prototype equipment. What sort of model train equipment is available in India? Do they make OO or HO scale black beauties?

1. PECO Starter track set -- ST100. -- HO scale

Peco makes excellent turnouts. While I never new they made other sectional track, I assume their other sectional track is the same quality so I could recommend that.

2. Analogue controller -- 1 no -- brand/make ?? (with AC/DC power converter..)

This is in conflict with the specifications for the locomotive below. A DCC locomotive generally requires a DCC (digital) controller. What is the line voltage in India? Here in North America all the generic analog controllers are going to require an input of 120VAC at 60 cycles per second. I assume there are converters from USA to India, but it might be easier just to find an Indian transformer that produces variable 0-12VDC out put from India's standard line power. Here in the USA the number one brand for analog controllers is generally considered to be MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation). On the other hand it should be easy to find a transformer that changes India's line current into a constant lower voltage required by a DCC controller. In that case one would want to choose the DCC controller first and then find a power supply to match. Finally, Wireless controllers might be another problem as the frequency they use might not be legal for private use in India.

4. WABASH hopper in black -- (Metal wheels and Knuckle couplers with good details on body)

You did not specify if you were talking about open hoppers (for coal, sand, gravel), or covered hoppers (for cement, grain, plastic pellets). Broadway Limited makes 3-bay open hoppers painted Wabash but they are brown. Accurail makes a 2-bay waffle side open hopper in black Wabash. Intermountain makes a 2-bay covered hopper (Stock #48640), Bowser and Kato make a similar car in Kit form.

5. Any other freight car which matches the other two in preferably same colour (Metal wheels and Knuckle couplers with good details on body)

Matching color is a bit odd. Generally one would want to match the era (time frame) first. In the USA freight cars traveled over all the different railroads tracks and it was the normal thing to see all different paint schemes, colors, and car types on all the railroads mixed up in the trains. You can't go wrong with Intermountain or Athearn Genesis brands. Proto-2000 has make both ready to run and kit cars of that quality if you can find them. Exactrail makes a few cars that are old enough to go with a Wabash hopper and a GP9. For the Wabash - GP9 time period you are going to need a caboose. The Caboose SHOULD match the locomotive.

6. EMD GP9 DCC locomotive -- All metal wheels with all wheel drive

Athearn Genesis just released a GP9. Top of the line stuff.

7. DEvice to operate switches / points automatically OR can I purchase separately and add-on ?

Automatially? Do you mean remotely from a control location or are you talking like computer control? This could be very simple or very complex depending on exactly what you mean. It can also will depend if you go with Analog DC or DCC controls.

8. Signals -- were the lights work ---- can this be connected to track?

With this item you have jumped off the cliff into some very complicated and/or expensive stuff. There are more options and variations than one could write a book about. I would get the other things taken care of first and then come back to this issue. The choices there will limit the options here and make it easier.

 

[k.ravi]

Hi Iron horseman, thanks for taking time to reply to my queries. My initial interest was in steam locomotive with lot of details on the loco and two passenger cars. But $$ has made me scale down my startup set. So I have selected Diesel and 3 wagons not of any specific type. Wanted to learn more on track setup and points with a basic train. Scale is HO, I do not have space at home. I can spare a max of 6x3 to 6x6 feet for my layout.

It sounds like you are looking for American prototype equipment. What sort of model train equipment is available in India? Do they make OO or HO scale black beauties?

I was able to contact an authorized dealer for Bachmann and one other popular brand with all OO and HO items. He suggested PECO track set for startups. (Conventional track without any base)

Peco makes excellent turnouts. While I never new they made other sectional track, I assume their other sectional track is the same quality so I could recommend that.

SO I will go ahead with PECO. What about Atlas? Any idea on this brand for tracks?

This is in conflict with the specifications for the locomotive below. A DCC locomotive generally requires a DCC (digital) controller. What is the line voltage in India? Here in North America all the generic analog controllers are going to require an input of 120VAC at 60 cycles per second. I assume there are converters from USA to India, but it might be easier just to find an Indian transformer that produces variable 0-12VDC out put from India's standard line power.

I was told that a DCC equipped loco will work with an analogue controller, but only basic functions. Wanted to push my budget a little more and get a DCC ready loco so that I can convert to DCC later easily instead of purchasing another DCC ready loco. Not sure if this is a good thought..

In India the line voltage is 220-230v 50 cycles. The analogue controller offered includes a converts 220v AC to 12-18v DC ready to use on tracks.

Here in the USA the number one brand for analog controllers is generally considered to be MRC (Model Rectifier Corporation). On the other hand it should be easy to find a transformer that changes India's line current into a constant lower voltage required by a DCC controller. In that case one would want to choose the DCC controller first and then find a power supply to match. Finally, Wireless controllers might be another problem as the frequency they use might not be legal for private use in India.

You did not specify if you were talking about open hoppers (for coal, sand, gravel), or covered hoppers (for cement, grain, plastic pellets). Broadway Limited makes 3-bay open hoppers painted Wabash but they are brown. Accurail makes a 2-bay waffle side open hopper in black Wabash. Intermountain makes a 2-bay covered hopper (Stock #48640), Bowser and Kato make a similar car in Kit form.

nothing specific for now on the wagons. I likes the closed hoppers and one open one. May be an oil tanker type. But I have decided to go for freight train as startup

Matching color is a bit odd. Generally one would want to match the era (time frame) first. In the USA freight cars traveled over all the different railroads tracks and it was the normal thing to see all different paint schemes, colors, and car types on all the railroads mixed up in the trains. You can't go wrong with Intermountain or Athearn Genesis brands. Proto-2000 has make both ready to run and kit cars of that quality if you can find them. Exactrail makes a few cars that are old enough to go with a Wabash hopper and a GP9. For the Wabash - GP9 time period you are going to need a caboose. The Caboose SHOULD match the locomotive.

Matching colour -- yes, it was a miss... I will take a mixed lot. Make the train more realistic.

Athearn Genesis just released a GP9. Top of the line stuff.

I will check if my dealer is offering this brand and loco. Should fit into my budget .. .$$

Automatially? Do you mean remotely from a control location or are you talking like computer control? This could be very simple or very complex depending on exactly what you mean. It can also will depend if you go with Analog DC or DCC controls.

I was told there is a simple control switch that can be used to control the points instead of manually changing the points. not sure if that is correct.


With this item you have jumped off the cliff into some very complicated and/or expensive stuff. There are more options and variations than one could write a book about. I would get the other things taken care of first and then come back to this issue. The choices there will limit the options here and make it easier.

ok. I think it was tooo much to ask without any previous knowledge about this item. So this has been dropped from my list.

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

Atlas-brand track is very good, but as far as sectional track is concerned the geometry is not the same (curve arcs, length of straights, turnout radii, ect). As for turnout control, the Peco turnouts already have a spring in the points so they stay to one side or the other. Caboose Industries make ground throws that attach to the turnout and look something like the real thing. there are also under-table switch machines of various makes. they're usually advertized in Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine (free online magazine).

I would also ask what you want to get out of your model railroad. How much space is available for you to use? Does the layout have to be portable, or can it be permanent? Do you want to run trains, or do some switching (you may call it 'shunting' in India)

 

[Iron Horseman]

Hi Iron horseman, thanks for taking time to reply to my queries. My initial interest was in steam locomotive with lot of details on the loco and two passenger cars. But $$ has made me scale down my startup set. So I have selected Diesel and 3 wagons not of any specific type. Wanted to learn more on track setup and points with a basic train. Scale is HO, I do not have space at home. I can spare a max of 6x3 to 6x6 feet for my layout.

Track - Atlas is an excellent brand also. It has been the mainstay of track for HO model railroading here in the USA for 50 years. I am guessing that Atlas will have a better selection of track pieces too.

DCC - Yes, some DCC decoders are what is called dual mode. They will run on standard DC power. Check the specifications on a specific unit for that function though, as not all of them have it. So with what you said in mind, that sounds like a good plan. I do have to say that I have picked up two DCC systems on eBay recently for very good prices.

Remote Turnout Control - Yes I understand what you are looking for now. The two most used remote turnout controls are twin-coils and stall motors. Twin coils use momentary contact switches or push buttons to snap the turnout back and forth. Both Atlas and Peco make custom switch motors for their turnouts. Pecos mount under the table. Atlas sit on top right next to the turnout. Atlas also makes easy-to-wire surface mount turnout control boxes to use. The most common stall motor on the market today is called "the Tortoise". It uses 12V power most commonly delivered through a DC system with DPDT switches wired just like a train control reversing switch. DC applied one way the turnout is straight. Change the polarity and the turnout throws to the other direction. The points move slowly rather than snapping back and forth like the twin coils.

3.5 x 6 is about the minimum space for an HO layout using standard USA type equipment if one wants a loop of track. The minimum radius is generally considered to be 18". 18" x 2 = 36", so 1/2 the width of a track would be hanging off the edge in only 3' of space.

 

[k.ravi]

Atlas-brand track is very good, but as far as sectional track is concerned the geometry is not the same (curve arcs, length of straights, turnout radii, ect).

Can I mix Atlas track with PECO track on a layout? Will that cause problems for running the trains?

As for turnout control, the Peco turnouts already have a spring in the points so they stay to one side or the other. Caboose Industries make ground throws that attach to the turnout and look something like the real thing. there are also under-table switch machines of various makes. they're usually advertized in Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine (free online magazine).

just wanted to know about switch control as my dealer told me he could arrange a basic piece for $10 for each switch.

I would also ask what you want to get out of your model railroad. How much space is available for you to use? Does the layout have to be portable, or can it be permanent? Do you want to run trains, or do some switching (you may call it 'shunting' in India)

To start with, I am not planning for a very large permanent layout. At present the space I can spare is around 6'x6' wooden table in good condition. the surface is a little uneven (old plywood peeling of bits and pieces) need to get the surface prepared.

Yes, I do want to run trains with lot of track and switching. But due to $$ constraints, I am looking at freight (loco + 3 wagons) to start with and various track layouts.

 

[k.ravi]

Track - Atlas is an excellent brand also. It has been the mainstay of track for HO model railroading here in the USA for 50 years. I am guessing that Atlas will have a better selection of track pieces too.

Ok. but one of the dealers are not providing me the listing on the website. He buys Atlas track in bulk and sells so that buyers also get the benefit of price. Can we mix Atlas and Peco on the same layout?

DCC - Yes, some DCC decoders are what is called dual mode. They will run on standard DC power. Check the specifications on a specific unit for that function though, as not all of them have it. So with what you said in mind, that sounds like a good plan. I do have to say that I have picked up two DCC systems on eBay recently for very good prices.

Thanks for the info. I will also check eBay on this item. Can you please share specific models (basic DCC) that I can look for?

Remote Turnout Control - Yes I understand what you are looking for now. The two most used remote turnout controls are twin-coils and stall motors. Twin coils use momentary contact switches or push buttons to snap the turnout back and forth. Both Atlas and Peco make custom switch motors for their turnouts. Pecos mount under the table. Atlas sit on top right next to the turnout. Atlas also makes easy-to-wire surface mount turnout control boxes to use. The most common stall motor on the market today is called "the Tortoise". It uses 12V power most commonly delivered through a DC system with DPDT switches wired just like a train control reversing switch. DC applied one way the turnout is straight. Change the polarity and the turnout throws to the other direction. The points move slowly rather than snapping back and forth like the twin coils.

3.5 x 6 is about the minimum space for an HO layout using standard USA type equipment if one wants a loop of track. The minimum radius is generally considered to be 18". 18" x 2 = 36", so 1/2 the width of a track would be hanging off the edge in only 3' of space.

Thanks for the info on this again. I did not know iturnout switches had so many specs. I will check with my dealer on the turnout switches. Space for layout is 6'x6' old table.

 

[otiscnj]

Atlas and Peco track can be mixed. You should decide which code of track (in HO commonly Code 100, or Code 83 for Atlas-not sure about Peco beyond Code 100), higher the number, the larger the cross section of the rail is. Generally smaller Code rail is used on older, or lines/sidings with lighter traffic.

Bachmann also has a brand of sectional track with attached roadbed here in the USA called Ez-Track. Comes in both steel(black roadbed) and nickel silver(gray roadbed)-I'd stick with the nickel silver. They make various radius curves. Railjoiners are compatable with both Atlas and Peco, but the roadbed adds some height. Years ago, Kato also made sectional track in HO, but not a large selection of components. It was code 83, but has unique rail joiners-you can make it work with other brands, just takes a small bit of effort.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

Ok. but one of the dealers are not providing me the listing on the website. He buys Atlas track in bulk and sells so that buyers also get the benefit of price. Can we mix Atlas and Peco on the same layout?

The Peco track you bought has a code-100 rail profile, so as long as you use the Atlas code 100 track (black ties) you'll be fine. I would advise against the Backhamnn track since you have a dedicated table for your layout, and the Bakchmann track has a very inflexible geometry.

If you are on a budget, I'd suggest a shelf-style switching layout if a shelf can be built/spared. It will use less track and materials overall, allowing you to buy more rolling stock.

http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/

Steinjr has designed some wonderful shelf layouts. If you still want to stick with the 6x6 table, I suggest you start planning. There is a software called SCARM (simple computer aided railroad modeling) that would be a great help.

 

[Iron Horseman]

Can we mix Atlas and Peco on the same layout?

Yes, I have used Peco turnouts with Atlas track for many years.

Thanks for the info. I will also check eBay on this item. Can you please share specific models (basic DCC) that I can look for?

The basic models are:
NCE - Power Cab
Digitrax - Zephyr
MRC - Prodigy
Lenz - LH100 or LH90 (push button or knob throttle)
Bachmann - E-Z Command (not recommended by me).
I don't know if CVP or Zimo have a basic system.

Personally I did not purchase basic DCC systems. I got the NCE PowerCab-R (for $300), and a CVP EasyDCC system w/radio (for $100). Both these are considered top of the line units. I am guessing there will be less "good" deals on the lower end offerings.

 

[k.ravi]

The Peco track you bought has a code-100 rail profile, so as long as you use the Atlas code 100 track (black ties) you'll be fine. I would advise against the Backhamnn track since you have a dedicated table for your layout, and the Bakchmann track has a very inflexible geometry.

If you are on a budget, I'd suggest a shelf-style switching layout if a shelf can be built/spared. It will use less track and materials overall, allowing you to buy more rolling stock.

http://home.online.no/~steinjr/trains/modelling/

Steinjr has designed some wonderful shelf layouts. If you still want to stick with the 6x6 table, I suggest you start planning. There is a software called SCARM (simple computer aided railroad modeling) that would be a great help.

Thanks for the info on the SCARM , I have downloaded the SW . Need to work on this and plan. I am going to use the table 6x6, the least space being 6x3.

 

[k.ravi]

Yes, I have used Peco turnouts with Atlas track for many years.[/I][/COLOR]


[/COLOR] The basic models are:
NCE - Power Cab
Digitrax - Zephyr
MRC - Prodigy
Lenz - LH100 or LH90 (push button or knob throttle)
Bachmann - E-Z Command (not recommended by me).
I don't know if CVP or Zimo have a basic system.

Personally I did not purchase basic DCC systems. I got the NCE PowerCab-R (for $300), and a CVP EasyDCC system w/radio (for $100). Both these are considered top of the line units. I am guessing there will be less "good" deals on the lower end offerings.

checked eBay and the DCC controllers are expensive to get it shipped to India. especially the NCE ones. So I will stick to a simple analogue controller for a single train for now and expand later.

one question: analogue OR DC controller are same right? Or is there a difference between Analogue, DC controller? what are the various controller options for a beginner with a DCC loco?

Any idea on the Mehano brand of locos' / wagons? Are they good in quality with details? I was suggested the Bachmann which I know is good. Not many choices here... Have to stick to the dealers choice -- Bachmann and branchline... one more dealer is offering Mehano.

Do suggest

Thanks

 

[Iron Horseman]

checked eBay and the DCC controllers are expensive to get it shipped to India.

Yeah shipping is a killer.

one question: analogue OR DC controller are same right? Or is there a difference between Analogue, DC controller?

I believe so.

what are the various controller options for a beginner with a DCC loco?

If you can find an MRC of some type you will be doing well.

Any idea on the Mehano brand of locos' / wagons? Are they good in quality with details?

I would say they are a good value for the money. I would not consider them to be highly detailed.

I was suggested the Bachmann which I know is good.

Be a little careful there Bachmann makes different "grades" of products. Their top-of-the-line is called Spectrum which I can highly recommend. They also make a lot of low end toy-train type stuff.

Then you can get Branchline locally? Branchline are quite highly detailed, and mostly kits. My issue with them is the paint. Instead of painting a box car brown, they will color the plastic brown and then just paint on the lettering. To me that always just looks goofy. On lighter colored cars it will let light from the sun or a bright lamp shine through the car. That can often be fixed by painting the inside of the car flat black.

Really hard to recommend anything without knowing exactly what products are available. For all I know Bachmann and Branchline in India are different than they are here in the States.

 

[k.ravi]

Yeah shipping is a killer.

I believe so. If you can find an MRC of some type you will be doing well.

What is MRC? I have not heard of this term?

I would say they are a good value for the money. I would not consider them to be highly detailed. .

I am being offered Mehano SD-35 loco (analogue) for a little less than $100. ok details - all metal wheels..

Be a little careful there Bachmann makes different "grades" of products. Their top-of-the-line is called Spectrum which I can highly recommend. They also make a lot of low end toy-train type stuff.

Then you can get Branchline locally? Branchline are quite highly detailed, and mostly kits. My issue with them is the paint. Instead of painting a box car brown, they will color the plastic brown and then just paint on the lettering. To me that always just looks goofy. On lighter colored cars it will let light from the sun or a bright lamp shine through the car. That can often be fixed by painting the inside of the car flat black..

Yes, got to know that Branchline locos & cars are also available separately. Little expensive though. That is fine with me since I will be purchasing only 1 good DCC loco with lots of details and a few standard wagons... I think I can use Mehano wagons to save on cost, but use a branchline loco for details and quality... Can you please suggest a good loco from branchline -- Diesel loco for the freight train? -- Class-46 or class-47 is that from branchline ?

Really hard to recommend anything without knowing exactly what products are available. For all I know Bachmann and Branchline in India are different than they are here in the States.

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

I am being offered Mehano SD-35 loco (analogue) for a little less than $100. ok details - all metal wheels..



Yes, got to know that Branchline locos & cars are also available separately. Little expensive though. That is fine with me since I will be purchasing only 1 good DCC loco with lots of details and a few standard wagons... I think I can use Mehano wagons to save on cost, but use a branchline loco for details and quality... Can you please suggest a good loco from branchline -- Diesel loco for the freight train? -- Class-46 or class-47 is that from branchline ?

I was under the impression you had already bought a GP9.

I did some research on Mehano and am inclined to say that given your location in the world it my be a good price. Looking at the stock photos on Mehano's website suggests that the couplers will need to be changed. Also though, if this SD35 is the same one IHC used to sell then the couplers will be attached to the trucks with large holes in the pilots of the shell to allow for their movement. If you are good working with styrene and can convert the locomotive from truck-mounted couplers to body-mounted couplers it could be a good locomotive. All indications are that Mehano locomotives are smooth runners.

 

[k.ravi]

Finally ordered the following:

a. Atlas oval track with two sidings (6x4)
b. Two controls for turnouts
c. Analogue controller with Power Adapter (230v AC - India voltage)
d. Three wagons -- Hoppers - Open, closed, flat wagon
e. Loco - Athrean GP38/2 - Good details with lights. Analogue - Can be converted to DCC with add-on chip for $ 30 USD

Will update once I receive the set and assemble. Thanks for all the help and info.

Ravi

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

We will want pictures of course. Good luck. By the way, it sounds as if you purchased the Atlas track starter set, was it the code 100 track (blue box) or code 83 track (red box)?

 

[Iron Horseman]

Finally ordered the following:

e. Loco - Athrean GP38/2 - Good details with lights. Analogue

Good. That will do better on the sharp curves than an SD35 would have done. Do you know if you got the RTR or Genesis version? Just curious.

 

[k.ravi]

We will want pictures of course. Good luck. By the way, it sounds as if you purchased the Atlas track starter set, was it the code 100 track (blue box) or code 83 track (red box)?

Definitely, pictures are in the queue. I am also in DSLR photography over the past two years... Newbie--

This is an Atlas Code 100 conventional track with black ties. This is not a box pack, but the dealer is providing the layout to my dimensions and request of two sidings and switches. The dealer is also a railroad modeller at his home.

 

[k.ravi]

Good. That will do better on the sharp curves than an SD35 would have done. Do you know if you got the RTR or Genesis version? Just curious.

The loco is labelled as "HO RTR GP38-2, IHB #3801". The loco has the number 3801 and comes with black and an orange band Harbor line. This is a brand new piece with full company box pack. All metal wheels with all wheel drive and good amount of details, may not be very detailed, but I am ok. I am more interested in tracks and switching over the next few months. The controller is a basic analogue with 1 speed dial and dirction control switch.