Need help in wiring


Hawkesburytrain

Hawkesburytrain

Well-Known Member
This is my staging district/block. Total length of tracks is 340' which includes 135' of double main line (staging and helix). Maximum locomotives running at the same time in the staging area would be 4 (2 consist of 2's, hope this is the right terminology)

1) Is this to much for one district booster? I was going to run a separate power for all my tortoises. There will be 18 tortoises, do I have enough power on the main bus to also include all my tortoises or keep them separate from the track bus?

2) Is the booster in the right location based on the bus line (23' either way) or should it be based on the middle section of the main lines which would bring the booster just left of the helix (70' of main line either way)?

3) All my tracks are going to be wired including all my turnouts (Electrofrogs). Should every piece be connected individually to the bus line or could I bring one main feeder to a terminal strip and then connect a few track feeders to each strip and how many track feeders can I bring to a strip?

4) On my main level, I will be using push buttons for my turnouts and since I have NCE, I will need Switch8-Mk2, but for now my question is how far can the tortoises be connected from the board or the push buttons? Basically, can I put everything on one piece of plywood where the booster is and have wires running to every tortoises and push button on the staging area?

5) Is there anything else I should know or do in the staging area?

PS. Please make the answers simple since when it comes to electricity or electronics, I'm clueless

Thanks

View attachment 59517
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
This is my staging district/block. Total length of tracks is 340' which includes 135' of double main line (staging and helix). Maximum locomotives running at the same time in the staging area would be 4 (2 consist of 2's, hope this is the right terminology)
Click to expand...
How many just sitting idle?

1) Is this to much for one district booster? I was going to run a separate power for all my tortoises. There will be 18 tortoises, do I have enough power on the main bus to also include all my tortoises or keep them separate from the track bus?
Click to expand...
I think it looks just about perfect for a 5 amp unit. I would run separate power for tortoise, and that is my advice keep them separate. DCC power is expensive keep it for things that require it. Use cheap power for everything else that does not require DCC.

2) Is the booster in the right location based on the bus line (23' either way) or should it be based on the middle section of the main lines which would bring the booster just left of the helix (70' of main line either way)?
Click to expand...
The former. Center of the bus.

3) All my tracks are going to be wired including all my turnouts (Electrofrogs). Should every piece be connected individually to the bus line or could I bring one main feeder to a terminal strip and then connect a few track feeders to each strip and how many track feeders can I bring to a strip?
Click to expand...
A terminal strip is just a wire with connectors on it. You can definitely connect a bunch of local feeders to a single terminal strip. Thinking of right down the yard ladder.
busterminalstrips.jpg

4) On my main level, I will be using push buttons for my turnouts and since I have NCE, I will need Switch8-Mk2,
Click to expand...
Well sort of. Are you planning on doing computer automation in the future. Are you wanting to set up routing? Are you wanting to control the turnouts from a locomotive throttle? If none of the above but if you have to have push buttons instead of switches, I guess those might be needed - and then you would have to power them with DCC. If you don't mind switches you don't need multiple $70 units to control a herd of tortoise.

but for now my question is how far can the tortoises be connected from the board or the push buttons? Basically, can I put everything on one piece of plywood where the booster is and have wires running to every tortoises and push button on the staging area?
Click to expand...
Yes, tortoise wires can be pretty long from a switch or DCC decoder. Tortoise don't draw much current. I believe our club had some tortoise machines on bell wire at least 25 feet from their push buttons. No issues.
 
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Thank you very much Iron, you've answered many questions, as for the other, here are my answers to your questions.

1) How many idle? None, one consist could be going up and another consist coming down

2) "Well sort of. Are you planning on doing computer automation in the future. Are you wanting to set up routing? Are you wanting to control the turnouts from a locomotive throttle? If none of the above but if you have to have push buttons instead of switches, I guess those might be needed - and then you would have to power them with DCC. If you don't mind switches you don't need multiple $70 units to control a herd of tortoise."

- No for automation
- No for routing
- No for locomotive throttle

I will have a dispatcher at a later stage.
Why the push buttons, because if I switch to computer control of turnouts, it is better with push buttons as toggles will not represent the turnout when done via computer. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if I install toggle switches now and later want to use the computer, I would have to remove the toggle and replace it with push buttons and redo the wiring, so might as well install push buttons now, hope this makes sense, if not, boy do I need explanation on what I should do

Thanks
 
Iron, I thought you were coming back with more info? I guess it's all ok.

5) Is there anything else I should know or do in the staging area?
Nobody had anything else to say.............
I just found out about a reversing loop from somebody.
As a beginner, I thought that the people here were of great help!!

So I'll try again
I got the answer for the reversing loop at "A", but preparing my feeders, I found another problem at "B". It looks like another reversing loop.
1) How do I fix this as I have two turnouts there?
2) What should I be getting as hardware?

Thank You

View attachment 59573
 
Do NOT power tortises of the track power bus.

Use #14 or heavier wire for the main bus and 18-24 wire for the feeders.

What makes you think you have a reverse loop at B? I don't see anything on the diagrams that indicates on the diagram above that indicates a reverse loop. All there is is a crossover, that doesn't reverse a train.
 
Lloyd I run Digitrax (for now) and control my Tortoises with NCE switch 8 mk2's.
The farthest switch might be twenty feet from the board and is feed with bell wire with LED's in line for indication.
No problems there.
My staging is roughly the size of yours and I run a main bus feed with 14 gauge wire, then secondary feeds at both ends with 16 gauge wire to track drop feeds with more bell wire.
As for your reverse loop, I don't have a lot of experience with them in dcc, can you show a pic of the "B" loop you mentioned?
 
I very much appreciate the help

dave1905 said:
Do NOT power tortises of the track power bus.

Use #14 or heavier wire for the main bus and 18-24 wire for the feeders.

What makes you think you have a reverse loop at B? I don't see anything on the diagrams that indicates on the diagram above that indicates a reverse loop. All there is is a crossover, that doesn't reverse a train.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave, look at my feeders, (black and red dots)
The top track is ok black to black and red to red
the bottom track is black to red and red to black

Oops, I was going to use the bus for the tortoises, is it because of power?

Thanks Rico, I thought of using NCE switch 8 mk2's, and my DCC is also NCE
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
Iron, I thought you were coming back with more info? I guess it's all ok.
Click to expand...
Yeah, sorry lost track of this thread. Yes, I still think everything will be fine even including the stall motors. That should still be enough power. And yes, you explained your reasoning for using DCC power for turnouts pretty well. Just because it isn't what I would do, I'm not going to try to talk you out of it.

5) Is there anything else I should know or do in the staging area?
Click to expand...
You are putting a set of feeders onto each yard track right?

I found another problem at "B". It looks like another reversing loop.
1) How do I fix this as I have two turnouts there?
Click to expand...
Looks to me like the issue is to the right of the "B" star. How did the top and bottom tracks get the feeders opposite from one another? I'll have to go look up your whole layout plan.
 
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Iron, thanks
Yes there will be feeders on every track
At the "B" star the feeders are right, look at the original picture with the helix and the top tracks, they are coming from opposite sides, that's why.
 
If I'm thinking about this right, you may be able to isolate the B section of the helix and use it as a reversing section. Just going off the memory of your whole track plan.
 
Sorry, I still don't see the "B" yet, unless it's in a previous thread?
If your layout is like mine and the track goes up the helix and back over itself then yes the feeders will be reversed.
I think that was one of your questions?
 
This is the main level
As you can see, all the outside feeders are black, but when you get to the staging area, the line coming from the left as the black feeder on the inside once it reaches the staging area. Hope this better illustrates it


View attachment 59575
 
That's what I thought. I think you could make that whole section from the tunnel entrance all the way down to the B area on the staging level a reversing section. Looks like the only way to me.
 
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Thanks Rick,
Do I have to use anything else than just the gaps?
I was told to use an auto reverser in the "A" loop
Should I be using the same for "B"
What kind of hardware should I use and is it easy to do the wiring?
 
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