Membership in the NMRA verses the Number of Model Railroaders in the U.S.


Red Oak & Western said:
Well, that shows how long its been since I've gone to an NMRA National. I checked the 2018 convention website and you MUST be a member to register. The last time I attended a convention, it cost $100 for NMRA members and $120 for non-members. Dues cost at that time was $32.
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It's interesting that you can not attend as a non-member! This seems incongruent with the NMRA's constantly asking for donations! In fact, I find the NMRA's constantly asking for money, is putting me off of being a member, as it's always; Donate, Donate, DONATE!!!!
 
Mark,

What I think that infers, fairly strongly at that, is the very group that is SUPPOSED to be all about the Model Railroading Hobby and modelrailroad hobbiests is only interested themselves and those who are interested in them.

If they can refuse a non members entry into something, then maybe they should give back all money that non members may have donated over the years! Or perhaps they could sell the fancy HQ building they bought or lease and use THAT money for everyone in the hobby instead of just themselves. Better still, maybe they could cancel all of their over seas trips at the members expense or pay for them out of their own pockets.

The NMRA is little more than a group of self appointed, money grabbing elitists and, obviously, don't give a damn about the hobby or those in it, just those who support them and the aspects of the hobby THEY consider worth the effort.

Here's an idea - perhaps they could spend that money on PROMOTING the HOBBY instead of themselves.
 
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I don't know if Charlie Getz is still the President of the NMRA; or, not. However, he had a column in the NMRA Magazine that is really a very good commentary on the hobby. I think he has great interest in the state of the hobby and the wellfare of model railroaders in general. I know of other member leaders that seem genuinely interested in where the hobby is headed. I just don't see the NMRA working for those members in regions and divisions where there isn't much activity!
 
...I just don't see the NMRA working for those members in regions and divisions where there isn't much activity!...
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The NMRA is, and correct me if I am wrong, an acronym for "National Model Railway Association". That name implies they are there for the Hobby and ALL model railway enthusiasts, especially as they placed themselves on a pedestal as being "THE" association in this country. The reality is, they are only there for themselves and those who are members and, going on what you said above, only those members who are active. They apparently don't anything (or much) for their own membership and certainly do nothing for the general model railroad community of this country (the US).
 
wombat457 said:
and certainly do nothing for the general model railroad community of this country (the US).
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I don't know that might seem to be true now but,...the X2F couplers and standardized heights for them certainly propelled the hobby from the chaos of trying to hook trains together in the 1950s to the manufacturer interoperability most of enjoyed until we switched to Kadee. Likewise the standardization of wheels (RP39 and later RP25) and rail profiles helped different brands of cars run on. In the mid 1960s I thought it was nice to be able to connect my AHM track, to the Tyco, to the Atlas, instead of fighting each brand has I had been before that. Most seem to forget that NMRA RPs are responsible for all units using standard voltages and that a DC engine having forward be the same direction as other units. Once again that made it possible to use different vendors on a single pike. I don't think the hobby would have progressed nearly as fast and to such heights had all the vendors continued to just go their own ways.

Just 30 years ago how many different command control systems were out there? Astrac, PMP-112, Dynatrol, Rail-Lynx, CTC-16, CTC-64, CTC-80, RailCommand, Onboard, and of course Zero One, probably bunches of others that never got anywhre. One had to commit to one brand, pay through the nose, and live with it as none worked with the others. And then came DCC making it all cheap and easy.
 
Iron Horseman, I agree with you, the NMRA has done many wonderful things for the hobby and everyone of us really should respect that! However, Tony has some points that need consideration, also.

When I flew R/C airplanes, I was a member of the AMA, (Academy of Model Aeronautics). Membership costs $75.00 a year and membership in my local division was a part of the national membership and because I'm older than 65 my membership was reduced to $65.00. Kids can be members for free. For my membership fees: I received what might be the best publication on the entire spectrum of model aviation printed. Liability insurance up to 2.5 million in coverage, that covered me in case of an accident where in my airplane hit somebody; or, someones property. There are far more benefits than I am going to list.

Pretty easy to see that the NMRA falls flat on it's face as far as benefits, in comparison!
 
This post was really only about the difference between the number of Model Railroaders who are members of the NMRA and the total number of Model Railroaders in the USA. It is true that the NMRA has many international modelers and that is a good thing.

Right now I'm thinking about the Master Model Railroader Achievement Program and what others think of this NMRA Program? Myself, I can see there being personal pride in receiving an MMR designation, for those who have put in the time to achieve it. However, for my interests in being a Model Railroader, I don't get what the difference between an MMR and someone who has accomplished much in their Model Railroading career, who doesn't have the Moniker; or, the recognition. You have to make getting your MMR a focus, you have to believe that being a member of the NMRA is worthy of a life long commitment to the organization. In the end, I wonder what good becoming a MMR really is?

I am not attempting to besmirch anyone who has attained this recognition. Just wondering why people would chase becoming a Master Model Railroader, as other than the recognition by fellow members of the NMRA, it looks like it's real value is in being a part of an elitist club. Let's see now, would Mark DeSchane MMR make me feel good about myself?
 
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Right now I'm thinking about the Master Model Railroader Achievement Program and what others think of this NMRA Program?
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I might have alluded to this before, but I believe that the Master Model Railroader Achievement Program, is a good thing, if you are inclined to participate, Achieving a MMR, signifies that you completed all the requisites, but doesn't necessarily make you a better model railroader or allow you to enjoy the hobby more. Personally, I thought about it, then decided I did not wish to put forth the effort. It's a personal goal and accomplishment.
 
WJLI26 said:
I might have alluded to this before, but I believe that the Master Model Railroader Achievement Program, is a good thing, if you are inclined to participate, Achieving a MMR, signifies that you completed all the requisites, but doesn't necessarily make you a better model railroader or allow you to enjoy the hobby more. Personally, I thought about it, then decided I did not wish to put forth the effort. It's a personal goal and accomplishment.
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My opinion of it pretty much parrots yours. When I talked to some folks from my division who where associated with the Achievement Program, I asked how would my achievements be verified. They said someone would have to come to my house; or, I had to bring whatever it was to a meeting. I just though that is to much to ask people; or, myself to drive 170 miles round trip to verify some aspect of the AP I had completed. So, I pitched the idea.
 
WJLI26 said:
...Achieving a MMR, signifies that you completed all the requisites, but doesn't necessarily make you a better model railroader or allow you to enjoy the hobby more. Personally, I thought about it, then decided I did not wish to put forth the effort. It's a personal goal and accomplishment.
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Couldn't agree more.

The thing that amuses me about this "Plan" is we spend so much time reinforcing the idea that no one has the right to tell another if his, or her, layout is good, bad or indifferent - we don't have that right. Yet here is something that does exactly that.

My point is, what gives some one the right to tell you or I that what we have done is not up to "standard"? Who sets that standard and what qualifications do they have to do so or to judge others?
 
Mark, Getting back on point, membership in relation to numbers in the hobby. The figures you posted showed that only about 10% of the over all community is involved with the NMRA, and from the posts here that number is lessening for the reasons given in those posts. What those numbers (as posted) make me ask myself is - "what does that tell you, or suggest, about the organisation" if only 10% or fewer of the over all community supports it.
 
I was a little rough on the NMRA national staff in my prior post in this thread. I would be a miss if I didn't say a thank you to the staff of the local WISE Division of the NMRA who work so hard to produce the annual TrainFest, monthly clinics, contests and layout tours.

Thanks everyone.

Greg
 
Kinda like the way y'all are judging the NMRA?
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Not quite sure what you're implying, Dave. NMRA does a lot of useful things, and then compiles and disseminates them, but like a lot of other similar advocacy organizations, the NMRA has issues. These issues obviously discourage a large portion of participants in the hobby from joining / remaining as members. As a potential member, I have every right to question and judge the NMRA, to see if membership is worth my investment. Instead of dismissing my concerns as judgmental, or negative, possibly the NMRA leadership should take notice, and ask why I'm not a member.

Yes, I can afford the cost of membership, and I do have the time to participate in Divisional and Regional activities, but I'm not interested. I'm better off applying the annual dues to another locomotive, because the NMRA is not a good fit for me.

As Tony mentioned, there is a problem that needs to be resolved, if only 10% or so of those who participate in our hobby belong to the NMRA. Is the leadership aware of this, or are they happy with the organization as it currently exists? Do they even care that 90% or so of potential members are not interested in the organization? Or is the membership ratio mentioned in this thread erroneous?

Could it be that one interest group dominates the organization, and causes others to feel inadequate? This is a multi faceted hobby, with numerous sub interest groups. I don't know the answer. I'm on the outside looking in. Maybe someone from the inside should take a look out?

Boris
 
I will admit that over the years that the NMRA has done some great things for the hobby. At the top of the list would probably be helping to standards so the manufactures could get together and have products that would work together. The RP25 wheel is one that come to mind.

A good friend of mine, the Late Pete Ellis was a member for years and was recognized as a master modeler. He had the time and money to travel to NMRA events as there are few, if any on the area where I live.

I personally see no advantage of being a member of the NMRA.
 
montanan said:
I personally see no advantage of being a member of the NMRA.
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And that might be the why the membership % are the way they are. I'm guessing that most people who drive cars see no advantage of being a member of an automobile associations. I don't. I have all sorts of audiophile equipment but I belong to no stereo clubs, groups, or organizations. Same for geology, lapidary, paleontology, HAM radio, astronomy ... I am guessing I don't belong to the associated groups/clubs/organizations for most of the "things" I do, have, or collect. I don't even get magazines or publications for them. I do belong to ACM and IEEE computer society, but that is my profession and that is a different animal.

I don't know how they came up with the "number of model railroaders", but my working theory is that many or most people who claim to be model railroaders in these straw poles don't even know the NMRA exists. And actually in the big scheme of things I think a 10% membership is a huge percentage. Do 10% of people who own or drive cars belong to the AAA or some other auto organization?
 
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in the big scheme of things I think a 10% membership is a huge percentage. Do 10% of people who own or drive cars belong to the AAA or some other auto organization
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The Horseman makes an excellent point.

Another way to look at this is to consider the NMRA is an affinity group, which provides services to it's members, such as access to insurance programs, a monthly model magazine, and other (discounted?) member only services. Do all model railroaders need or want these services? NMRA membership is deeply discounted, if the member declines the magazine. Many modelers as well as Hi-Railers belong to the TCA, for similar reasons as scale model railroaders belong to the NMRA. I don't because I don't see myself as a collector (Although all the stuff in the basement says otherwise).

The topical point is that in my view, NMRA membership statistics do not reflect on the strength or size of the hobby.

Boris
 
NP2626 said:
I know, it's: "Ask not what the NMRA can do for you; but, rather what you can do for the NMRA"! However, I have been seeking numbers on the membership of the NMRA verses the population of Model Railroaders in the U.S. I have been told that membership in the NMRA is around 17,500 people and that this number appears to be shrinking as of late. The number was fairly steady at 20,000 from 2006 to 2012, since 2012, there has been a slow but steady decline.

The population of model railroaders in the U.S. is estimated at around 175,000 people. It would appear that membership in the NMRA is about 10% of the model railroaders in the country. I also know that the NMRA is really an international organization, However, there is no way to bring the number of people not from the U.S. out of the total.

This information was unscientifically gleaned from opinions on the NMRA's Forum. As to it's validity, all I can say is: It is, what it is. Use it; or, not, your call! What is interesting (at least to me) is the 1/10th membership in the NMRA to the overall population of Model Railroaders.

I have found that the NMRA's website is deplorable! I have also found that my regional division, has very little activity and they really don't seem to care about newcomers (It took more than a year for them to acknowledge my membership). I joined the NMRA again, at $75.00 for NMRA and $10.00 for my regional membership. I'm am uncertain, why!
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Mark,

It would have been informative to note that Mike Brestel - a former NMRA president and current board member - was the source of those numbers. I'd say that gives them a fair degree of legitimacy. However, to address a point Mike made (on February 21) on the NMRA forum thread in which those figures were cited, I don't think I ever saw any membership data published in the magazine in the two recent years I was a member. Granted, I may well have missed it, but don't recall seeing it.

As for membership growth and the opportunity to capture a larger share of that estimated 175,000-strong North American model railroader market, consider this "strategy," quoted verbatim from the March/April, 2018 NMRA eBulletin: "Membership Retention is the best and most economical way to grow our numbers." (It then goes on to highlight the National program for reimbursing Divisions up to $50 annually for an approved retention program.) That is, if the NMRA just maintains its current level of membership (without losing any members to, say, death or cancellation) then it'll grow. An amazing feat indeed.
 
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Red Oak & Western said:
If you consider that the number of model railroaders is declining (the Wall Street Journal's opinion, not mine), then if the number of NMRA members remains constant, its percentage of "market share" will actually grow! See, aren't statistics fun!

For the numbers of NMRA membership and cost of dues, see https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/nmraorg/web/a_look_back_a_look_ahead.pdf
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Kevin,

Ah, the secret behind that truly astounding leap of logic is revealed! :cool: A partial, related joke: The boss is inteviewing a candidate for an account's job. "I only have one question," he says. "What's two plus two?" The candidate replies, "What would you like it to be?"
 
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