Laying Rail in my Helix, hints/suggestions


B

beiland

Well-Known Member
I'm finally ready to lay some track in my helix structure, ....Atlas CODE 100 flex track.
Looking for a few hints/suggestions.

I'll be attaching the Atlas track to my reinforced and painted/weather-proofed masonite roadbed. It will be a double radius installation of 32" & 29".

Naturally I will be starting at the lowest level, and working my way upward so as to have the best/clear access to the tracks. Probably be able to do a full half circle at a each shot.

I'm still debating with myself on what adhesive I will use, and how it might be applied. What do I mean by this?
There are any number of adhesives that can glue the track to the masonite, but some are instant contact, and some take longer to dry.

Those that take longer to dry allow one to readjust the track to get that ideal circular shape, but then you must secure them in multiple locations, and for a considerable time to allow for a cure,...and these are circular flex track that wants to return to a 'relaxed straight condition'. I have considered using hot melt glue to tack the track down into its basic shape, then apply some sort of 'flowing adhesive' to finish the job? Remember the masonite hardboard will not accept 'tacks/nails'.

I might be able to weight the track into its position with the longer term adhesive, but I get a slight uneasiness about it maintaining its ideal circular shape with no 'temporary tacking'

The instantaneous glues concern me about placing the track down in its circular form exactly correct the first time.



hints & suggestions entertained
 
I made my circles first, added the roadbed, than the tracks. Once all of them done I just needed to assemble them, add the road bed and track missing to join each circle. I used carpenter glue for the roadbed and white glue for the tracks. I used a paper template for my roadbed and the tracks were than glued to the center. Hope this makes sense.

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Lets see if I have this correct? You used the paper templates to locate your ballast, then glued ballast down and held it with this push pins, then laid track onto the ballast???

Regrettably I am not using ballast in my helix, just gluing the track directly to hard-board masonite,...and that masonite does not accept push pins.

But thanks for the submission, did I get your method correct.
 
beiland said:
Lets see if I have this correct? You used the paper templates to locate your ballast, then glued ballast down and held it with this push pins, then laid track onto the ballast???

Regrettably I am not using ballast in my helix, just gluing the track directly to hard-board masonite,...and that masonite does not accept push pins.

But thanks for the submission, did I get your method correct.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not.
There is no ballast on the pictures.
I had my layout printed 1:1, installed roadbed where the tracks were going to be and held with push pins on 1/2 inch plywood. Then the tracks were laid on the roadbed center. Once each circle done, they were than assemble one at a time because I just had to do the connection.
 
Could you post the layout plans. I just want to see if you have any reverse loop problems concerning the helix?

George
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
Absolutely not.
There is no ballast on the pictures.
I had my layout printed 1:1, installed roadbed where the tracks were going to be and held with push pins on 1/2 inch plywood. Then the tracks were laid on the roadbed center. Once each circle done, they were than assemble one at a time because I just had to do the connection.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry Lloyd. I used the wrong word,...not ballast, but cork roadbed.

Its nice that you could do a full circle at a time. I don't have that luxury with the metal structure I built to house the helix external to my shed.
 
Screw it Down, No Glue


Why not just use short flat head screws? I have seen several helices where the track was simply screwed down every few inches. The screws are installed between the ties as opposed to through a tie so in effect they are holding down two ties. The screw heads apparently don't cause any problems even though they stick up above the ties. Your equipment will have to be properly tuned of course, with no low hanging coupler pins or snow plows, but you are going to do that anyhow to make sure that they clear turnout frogs etc.​
I'm assuming that you haven't assembled the helix roadbed yet and that you will have enough clearance to install the screws as you build the helix.​
Dave​




If you just want to hold the curve in alignment till the glue sets you could use larger screws with washers and drive them between the ties letting the washers clamp the ties in place. I've also seen folks use this method in helix without glue and just leave the screws and washers in place....DaveB​







There have been two such suggestions from 2 forums. I am really liking the idea. I went to my local ACE hardware store the other day and found these items,..
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Here are several photos with them installed in an experiment,.
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As you can see the washer fits very nicely in between the tie plates for 2 ties, giving a nice broad support. The screw hold is between the ties instead of thru that small existing hole in the Atlas track, allowing for a bigger screw than those very small number #4,....and it means the spacing/location of these tie down screws is totally optional, not restricted to the atlas holes.


I also like the idea that the hole in the washer is a bit larger than the screw. That could allow for some movement/readjustments in the future for any expansion/contraction. (BTW I don't think there are real problems with track expansion in curved helix tracks of large diameter,...as MarkP noted, “The rails maintain the curve through the joint by flexing to the minimum strain energy state , I learned that particular phrase in engineering school”.





The screws also act very well with my masonite hardboard roadbed in the helix. No searching for the 'correct glue', and all the mess that entails getting it down under the track,...and not being able to re-adjust things if that becomes an issue.





I believe I can get away with as little as 3 of these screw attachments per segment of track,...maybe 4. And I might be able to put them right at the joints in the rails.





I'm sold on this idea.





...And if that weren't enough convincing, I can utilize this same attachment method in my metal bridges to the helix. Here is a sample where I attached my track and rerailer to the bridge that will feed my staging tracks,..
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New NOTE added:
I went away from this screw-washer arrangement to just a #6 screw with a 'truss head',...shown later in discussion
 
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New Screw Idea
Ken Rice
And just a note that the hole in the washer being bigger than the screw does not allow for any adjustment if the screw is a countersink head as the ones you’re experimenting with are. It would for a pan head screw, but that might protrude up too far. And anyway you probably get plenty of slop for adjustment just from the slot between the ties and the flexiness of the ties.
Click to expand...

The next morning I was rethinking that countersunk screw and washer situation being relatively 'fixed', and I do recall trying a pan headed screw while I was at my ACE store. The pan head screw was just a bit high when used with the washer.


My contractor friend was over that morning, and he just casually picked up a small screw I had laying out in a small pile of candidates I had been working on. It turned out to be a #6 with a slightly bigger head than a #6 pan head. i decided to go look at what other screws might be used WITHOUT the washer,...have the head of the screw span the two ties. I went and looked at Home Depot & Lowes and found almost exclusively pan headed screws in #6 size. They had bigger headed screws in the next size up,..the #8, .....but those are a bit to big to fit comfortably between the ties.


I went back to my ACE store and found a screw identical to that one my friend had found casually that morning. Its a 'truss head', #6. I bought a box of them and came home to give them a try. This is now my go-to screw for the hidden tracks in the helix,..both on the masonite roadbed, and the metal bridge structures. Washers no longer needed.


Here it is on my helix bridge to staging,...
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I had already gone forward with my washer/screw idea on my double cross and two ramps feeding the helix,...
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I went back and changed that to the new screw idea,...no washers
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Wow , started laying track

I actually started laying track today
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,...not just my helix bridges, but the helix loops leading down to staging.

Photos coming soon
 
Viewing & Access Door


Got a little delayed this past weekend with some house projects, and a trip to the west to buy a glass paneled storm door for my helix structure. If you recall my older neighbor had said he would like to view into the helix innards without having to duck under to get inside. And I was going to build some sort of access door to get at the 3 way staging turnout. So this door is going to solve both of those problems,...just have to do some custom cutting and framing...






Fit in here and opens out to the left,..
 
Work in progress


Still a mess, but here are some construction photos. I'm pleased with the access I am going to have to the 2 turnouts I will have in the helix structure, and the open side access I will have to the trains running in the helix.


















































And them my upper loop track that hangs in space as it has no bridge structure yet,...
 
Laying the Double Track portions


I made a different 'fixture' to assist with the laying of the double track portion. Since I am NOT gluing the track down, but rather screwing it, I thought why not have a 'guide' that could be temporarily attached to the helix roadbed itself. Why not simply cut a circular strip of material that would fit between the double track's ties, and just make sure to center that strip on my roadbed width.


I made my 'guide' of a scrap piece of masonite I had left over from cutting out the roadbed.

















I get a consistent 3" spacing between the tracks, and its quite easy to simply lay the tie ends against the guide for a nice smooth curve.














Then move that 'guide' around to the next segment. BTW I soldered 2 pieces of flex track together before bringing them into the helix. The next 6 foot segment was added inside.








 
Not feeling so well yesterday morning, so everything got pushed back a day.


First day I got the Athearn diesel running on all the tracks except the very upper loop that has yet to get its bridge (scrap yard not cooperating with the correct piece yet...ha..ha). It was strictly a DC powered test, and the power was transmitted thru the track itself that has all the joiners soldered. Power was consistent top to bottom.


I decided to solder all the joints in the helix tracks as I was just not comfortable with the real & potential kinks that were/could occur in the curved tracks.


I got one of my older steam engines out to run as well, and it found a few little spots that needed 'fine tuning'. I ran both of the locos up and down a number of times, and at slow speeds to find any little glitches. It was a productive test. I found a few spots that had a very small elevation change over a track joint, and fixed those.


I think you can see I have considerable height between levels to get at the trains,...its only about 4". As a result of the 'cantilevered' support of the roadbed I also have very easy access to the trans,...and the track for cleaning etc.


I've also solder in all my feeder wires for DCC operation. Have not installed the buss wires yet.


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