"Large" N-Scale Layout


J

John Henry Pritzlaff

New Member
Hey everyone. New to the forum.

I'm a novice MRR hobbyist who once helped his dad construct a few layouts back in the day. Now I have the benefit of YouTube and a new place with a very relaxed landlord. I also have time and a little extra cash.

I'm planning on making a relatively "large" ultra low-tech DIY layout in my new room and I need advice. Right now my plan is to have two separate roughly 4'x2' rectangular city sections which will eventually be connected by a single-track mainline that circumnavigates the room at ceiling level and comes down to the city sections via two narrow but very tall two-track helixes.

I'll obviously build this in sections. I want to buy only one engine and a few cars, and I'm fine only running one short train at a time so I want to know the cheapest and simplest way to wire it, and how big a single block can be powered off a <$100 transformer using Atlas flexitrack I buy in large lots off eBay. I want to make my own track beds, my own skyscrapers to go inside the helixes, and print my own background "scenery" to go along the mainline etc.

I need to know what people more experienced than me think of this plan off 1st impressions. I'll be back later with the room dimensions. Thanks in advance, you guys are awesome. I'm having trouble with autocorrect on this phone so please be kind if there are any errors in my typing.
 
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John,

Firstly, welcome to the forums and secondly, your plan sounds very challenging and should be interesting to follow your progress with it especially being in Z Scale. You are a brave man.

You have two basic options for power, DC or DCC. DC will be the cheaper of the two to set up initially BUT in the long run could create wiring probs if that isn't one of your strong points. DCC would most likely be your best option all round. I'm not sure what you need (power wise) for Z Scale but I know you can buy an NCE Starter DCC System for around $150. DCC will make your wiring easier.

Once again, I have no idea what power is needed to run a Z Scale but if you went with 14 or 16 gauge wire for your main power bus and 20 - 22 gauge for your feeders, those wires that run from you main bus to the track periodically around your layout.
 
Tony,

Thank you for your kind reply. None of this is my strong suit, but I am brave and willing to compensate for my inadequacies with sweat equity and the fact that I am still semi- young and limber.

I gather your point that even if I only want to run one train with manual switches and only one block it still makes sense to run a pair of bus wires with feeders here and there, especially given the roughly 40' length of the mainline and elevation changes making for a lot of voltage drop...

See, I learn fast! (?)
 
John,

With a 40' mainline your definitely going to need bus wires and "drop feeders". I am sure others who scale in Z will enter the conversation and give you accurate suggestions; however, I'd suggest one set of feeders no more than 10' apart.

Just out of curiosity, as you have so much room to play with, why did you choose Z Scale?
 
Welcome John, Z scale eh, 1:220, at least it's not T scale 1:450 which rides on 3mm gauge track.

Here's a Youtube to whet your appetite, a bit noisy 'cause it's at a show.

I see also that you plan on ahelix or helixes. Here's another video that might be worth some consideration. It is in N scale 1:160, but he draws attention to a number of points, not the least being the ability of the locos to lift a train up a long grade such as is necessary in a helix. Here it is anyway for your consideration.
 
Welcome to the forum John. You are indeed brave to start in Z scale. I'm not too sure that I could even see something that small!;) Tony's recommendation of wire sizes is right on. If you only plan to run only one train, DC is a better and much less expensive option than DCC. Wiring is actually quite simple, run a two wire buss and just make sure that you put in a few feeders, I add them every 6' or so, but I may be overdoing it. If you plan to eventually run more than one train, then you have to deal with insulating rail joiners, electrical blocks with separate buss's and multiple power sources. In that case, DCC might be the way to go. Hard to believe that a decoder will fit in a Z scale engine, but they do! I have read that for Z scale, NCE systems are the way to go. Either way, DC or DCC, I would put the power source in the center of the 40', which would reduce the distance that power has to flow. Longer runs in DCC might require a booster.
Good luck and I look forward to your progress.

Willie
 
Welcome to the group John,

As the others have said, you are "brave" for going with Z scale. I was an N scaler for several years, and at 47 years old it was starting to become a tad small for me. Cant imagine working with Z. I will look forward to see what you come up with. There are A lot of offerings I Z scale right now, so its a great time to get into it!
 
Thank you all for your kind responses! This is extremely exciting for me. Sorry for the delay in responding on my end. I'm in the process of moving out there, a process which indeed doth comprise many a logistical issue; I still don't have the precise dimensions, though I believe the room to be approximately 12'x9' -ish. So no, I don't exactly have a lot of room to work with, but 90% of the track length will come from a) the two helices and b) the line that circumnavigates the perimeter of the room near the ceiling, which I (very roughly) guesstimate shall end up totaling 40' ...especially if we count the helices as part of the mainline, as well as its circuit through the cities/towns? With electrical considerations being the exception I expect, the matter of how long one's track is may be largely immaterial. Or I guess I should ask y'all if that's the case, since you all have far more knowledge than do I.

Playing around in SCARM has taught me how limited Z-scale components are. I considered and am still considering N-scale, for it's the only scale I have any significant personal experience with, having constructed two N-gauge layouts with my dad as a kid, though my grandpa had a few modest layouts too (an N-scale that went over his bar in the basement, which also had an aquarium visible from the first floor, which was a half-floor up; an HO scale unfurnished layout underneath my bed at their house in Oconomowoc, etc.) I still have some N-scale engines back at my mom's house in Milwaukee as well as some stock. I'm just concerned about turn radius and maximizing space. I want to have a relatively large layout in a relatively small space, which I think is doable if done right. I've seen a lot of "layouts" where the track circumnavigates the ceiling and that's it. I think those are cool but that the idea can be expanded upon if design restrictions are rethought. Normally you want to go HO or above if you're putting a track around the ceiling. But I still have great vision, and I'm not going to be purchasing any super expensive engines or stock or scenery that I would need a microscope to assemble or repair... I'm already planning around all these issues by compromising my expectations.

One of the design parameters I'll be leaning on to make the whole venture doable is that I'll be okay with the whole thing looking semi-kitschy and unrealistic, as far as the shape of the layout, and especially before it's "finished"; but I'll focus on keeping everything in the same scale. The soaring skyscraper cities, a la the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry, which rise inside and around the helices, will undoubtedly be unrealistic and odd from a traditional MRR POV, especially since I'll be making them myself on a shoestring budget. But the goal will be to make a futuristic, industrial layout, and to save so much money on each individual component, and yet direct the overall orchestra so harmoniously, that the ultimate outcome will be uniquely satisfactory, something no one else has, which was pulled off decently well. Within two years, I think that's doable!
 
I forgot to say, my whole thing with the helix is that if you're okay with only having one, short train, and you don't want to hide the helix but rather, have it wrap around the scenery in the form of huge skyscrapers, then why not? I know it would be wiser to set the whole thing up for the long term but I want this installation to be modular. I don't even want the perimeter track shelf to be permanently affixed to the wall or brackets, I just want it to be free sitting and easily dismantle-able. That way I could eventually move it to a place that'll allow me to make larger holes in the walls for tunnels connecting rooms and going out to the garden etc... haha, we all can dream. I think it would also be interesting to make an N-scale garden train that comes inside. One day I'll have my own house and I'll have that and I'll have a river that connects a pond to a large aquarium in the basement so the koi and native fish can come inside in the winter...
 
John,

From the sounds of it you have the identicle size room to work with as I do and my layout is (in the process of) N Scale. I also have to agree with the others when it comes to using a helix, it will limit what you can run and yours will be fairly high which will add additional (possible) complications with regards the trains. While I understand you would like to "join" the ceiling track with the bench work track, you may have to give serious consideration to the practicality of doing so.

Can I ask what restrictions you have with the room you are going to be building the layout in. Will the room be used for anything other than the layout?
 
John Henry Pritzlaff said:
I'm planning on making a relatively "large" ultra low-tech DIY layout in my new room and I need advice. Right now my plan is to have two separate roughly 4'x2' rectangular city sections which will eventually be connected by a single-track mainline that circumnavigates the room at ceiling level and comes down to the city sections via two narrow but very tall two-track helixes.
Click to expand...
With two helices of that size I think that more than 90% of your trains run time will be spent in them. If they are hidden inside of sky scrapers and the like that is a whole lot of unseen trackage and potential places to derail, uncouple, etc. and not to mention how hard it might be to keep the track clean.

I used to run on the Gulf, Colorado, and Santa Fe that also had two helices they were only about 6 winds each, but 2/3 of all trains run was spent in them. It got pretty tedious from time to time.

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-plan-database/2016/09/ho-scale-gulf-colorado--santa-fe
And a video we will all hate because of the background talking rather than train sounds....

Perhaps some sort of removable "bridge" that could connect the two modules while in use might be more practical?
 
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I've seen a lot of videos on the many variations of removable bridges one can create. Fascinating stuff. Earlier today I was starting to think about how much easier it would be to make the perimeter line around the ceiling a "U" shape instead of a rectangle. Now I'm thinking perhaps I should make the connecting line at waist (desk & shelf) level... I'm going to have my bed along one of the shorter walls, with a 90 gallon aquarium (already attained) on a stand at the foot (it's a 90 high so 48" x 12" footprint). Maybe I could have the connecting mainline come along the front lip of the stand, 90° at the wall, 90° turn along the headboard, connecting one city on my desk and one city on my shelf. Save the more unorthodox stuff for a hypothetical Phase 2.
 
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John,

I've never been all that great at visualizing stuff so would it be possible for you to draw a diagram of the room and where every thing will be located in the room so we can picture things better and; therefore, offer clearer advice based on your requirements.
 
wombat457 said:
John,

I've never been all that great at visualizing stuff so would it be possible for you to draw a diagram of the room and where every thing will be located in the room so we can picture things better and; therefore, offer clearer advice based on your requirements.
Click to expand...

Yes sir, I'm still getting used to SCARM but I'll draw something up freehand for y'all soon. I've been super busy but that'll only take a sec.

Again, thank you all for all your help.
 
Tony,

I'm thinking now that I'm going to make a futuristic, very unprototypical, industrial shunting loop layout, where only the mainline is functional without manually switching the turnouts. Not for operators or the faint of heart. The part of the mainline that connects the cities will be a DIY double-decker bridge that I will try to make look halfway decent using black spray paint and toothpicks... At the entrances to the cities, the mainline will diverge, connecting into 1 track at the other end of the city. This will happen after a fashion in one of the cities, which will be encapsulated by a 3-level oval helix, the first two levels of which will be subterranean and visible from the front viewing position. As far as engines, I'll put all the money into one relatively powerful switcher, and it'll only carry two short, light cars at a time. The city with the oval helix around it will have an annoyingly unrealistic and non-functional yard in the center which the mainline will pass perpendicularly through using 90 degree crosses. I'm still working on the mock-up. Talk soon!
 
I'm also considering a trapezium shape for that helix.
 

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