Kadee Coupler Confusion


CoolRuehle

CoolRuehle

Member
I am new to the Kadee coupler scene and need some guidance from the vetruns!!

So far, I have purchased the following:

Qty 6 Walthers coke cars (coal, not the beverage)
Qty 6 Walthers Hot Metal cars
Qty 6 Walthers Slag cars

A few of the hot metal and slag cars came with Kadee couplers, others came with the horny couplers. Some of the coke cars came with a Kadee-looking coupler, but the knuckles are molded into the closed position, and cannot be opened.

The Kadee couplers supplied looked like this:

http://www.kadee.com/html/148.jpg

I went to the Kadee website and was overwhelmed :eek: at the selection and types available!

Most likely I will be purchasing a few gons, a few flats, and a string of ore cars in the future, which I am sure will be from Walthers or Athern.

Can anyone make a suggestion on which type of Kadee coupler to use with this array of rolling stock? Should I just stick with the coupler shown above?

Thanks!

--Jon
 
Kadee has a good convesion chart on their website to answer your question.
Go to their site Kadee.com. Then on the top click on conversion, and then HO conversion list to find the right coupler/s you need. They also have a selection for HO conversion that gives a diagram on proper installation.
Good Luck
 
CoolRuehle said:
I am new to the Kadee coupler scene and need some guidance from the vetruns!!
A few of the hot metal and slag cars came with Kadee couplers, others came with the horny couplers. Some of the coke cars came with a Kadee-looking coupler, but the knuckles are molded into the closed position, and cannot be opened.
--Jon
Click to expand...

It's unlikely that any of the Walthers cars have Kadee couplers on them unless you bought them secondhand. Walthers switched from horn-hooks to plastic knuckle couplers some years ago. They used McHenry finger spring couplers, McHenry coil spring, and McHenry scale head - until very recently. New Walthers stuff within the last year(?) or so comes with a metal Kadee clone coupler very similar to a #5. It's better than any of the plastic ones, but a bit stiff. I still replace them all with real Kadees.

Andy
 
The coupler that the coke cars came with is referred to as a "dummy" coupler - it's most common use (other than pure show) is for use in unit trains that are never uncoupled.

Odds are, unless you have some oddball equipment, the numbers you'll want to deal with the most are:
#148 - the standard Kadee coupler head on a "whisker" spring mount
#158 - scale sized Kadee coupler head on a "whisker" spring mount
#156/#153 - scale sized Kadee coupler head on an offset (up or down) "whisker" spring mount
#119 - Shelf style coupler on a "whisker" spring mount - commonly seen on tank cars and especially tall cars. I don't know if the hot metal or slag cars would use them, but they might.

Update: Um, make that #156/153 - long and short shanks. Not offset.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
el3637 said:
It's unlikely that any of the Walthers cars have Kadee couplers on them unless you bought them secondhand. Walthers switched from horn-hooks to plastic knuckle couplers some years ago. They used McHenry finger spring couplers, McHenry coil spring, and McHenry scale head - until very recently. New Walthers stuff within the last year(?) or so comes with a metal Kadee clone coupler very similar to a #5. It's better than any of the plastic ones, but a bit stiff. I still replace them all with real Kadees.

Andy
Click to expand...

The recent Walthers cars come with Proto 2000 couplers which are a kadee clone. It uses the same centering spring to center the knuckle, the same knuckle spring, the same metal shank, and the same metal coupler only it is shaped a little different and the uncoupling arm (that looks like an air hose) is plastic.

Kadee #5s are still cheaper. For example, 2 pairs of kadee #5s are about $1.50. Two pairs of Proto 2000 couplers are about $2. Kadee couplers are cheaper in bulk.

The proto 2000 couplers are really nice. I use them interchangably with the kadees but only when the cars come with them. (I don't go out and buy proto 2000 couplers)
 
I bought some Kadee #148's. My Walthers cars definately DO NOT

have Kadee couplers on them. They are a plastic clone. The Kadee stuff is top-notch. I may keep the plastic ones, especially the non-working type that are meant for cars that will never uncouple (like my slag cars, and coke cars).

Naaaah. The heck with that! I'll just change them all out. They're only about $1.25 in bulk anyway. That way I can uncouple/couple whenever with little to no hassles.

--Jon
 
For future reference, here are the types of Kadee clones. kadee was the original working knuckle coupler.

Metal:

Proto 2000 - The second best coupler in existance (second only to the original kadee) Almost all-metal, uses same components as a kadee (a metal centering spring instead of whiskers, metal knuckle spring, all metal coupler and shank) I would use them interchangibly with a kadee. They are slightly more expensive than a kadee however.

Plastic (they are terrible because the coupler shank will twist and uncouple your cars at turns or if you have a long or heavy train):

McHenry - A plastic clone with a metal knuckle spring. Used on Walthers cars except for the most recent ones which have the proto2000 couplers. Some Bachmann products may have them too.
Bachmann EZ-Mate - A plastic clone with a plastic "leaf" style knuckle spring. Used by Athearn and Bachmann.
Accumate - These are terrible. They are actually 2 pieces one on top of the other, one side forms the "thumb" of the knuckle while the other is the "fist" part of the knuckle. They will uncouple if you stare at it with enough intensity. Used by Atlas, Accurail, and Accuready.
 
diburning said:
For future reference, here are the types of Kadee
McHenry - A plastic clone with a metal knuckle spring. Used on Walthers cars except for the most recent ones which have the proto2000 couplers. Some Bachmann products may have them too.
Bachmann EZ-Mate - A plastic clone with a plastic "leaf" style knuckle spring. Used by Athearn and Bachmann.
Click to expand...

The Bachmann EZ-Mate is a licensed version of the original McHenry finger spring coupler. I think the current Bachmann coupler is the large head McHenry coil spring design.

Athearn now owns McHenry, so the McHenry coupler is technically now the Athearn coupler. There is also a small head McHenry, and a Shelf McHenry. I don't like any of 'em.

There is also the defunct Intermountain clone, which was a finger spring like the original McHenry with a slightly smaller head. Had an even higher failure rate, which is why IM did away with it and now uses real Kadees.

And the original Proto 2000 coupler - essentially a finger spring knuckle but using a Kadee type bronze centering spring.

At the time Walthers purchased P2K, they were using McHenry couplers. Between Walthers buying Proto, and Athearn buying McH, Walthers had to come up with something else - hence the new Proto metal coupler. I would assume the old plastic Proto is defunct.

One other plastic knuckle worth mentioning is Kato's. It had a manually operated knuckle - or at least lacked the trip pin. Kato locos may still come with this coupler, dunno. Haven't bought any in a while.

So it looks like the surviving non-Kadees are the McHenry coil springs - pretty much standard on Athearn RTR stuff, the metal Proto now standard on Walthers stuff, and whatever Bachmann is making which looks to be a clone of the large head coil knuckle McHenry. And Kato's weird coupler.

I'm not quite old enough to have been in the thick of the 1950s coupler wars, when you had MDC, Baker, Rail Line, Mantua, and some even wackier ones to choose from - all incompatible with each other. But my dad tried them all it seemed and we often ran trains with 3 different couplers embedded. By the mid 60s, HO was down to two couplers, the so-called NMRA horn-hook and the original Kadee. Life was pretty simple for the next 30 years. Then suddenly everybody and their brother was coming out with crappy clone couplers. The only good thing that came out of all that is it may have helped motivate Kadee to churn out some different *looking* couplers, not just new mounts, shanks, and offsets. That begat the #58, and the type E and type F shelf couplers - which work like Kadees and are compatible with them.

The assortment of couplers in use today at least claim in general to be compatible... and they are. But the purpose of couplers is to hold a train together, and most of the clones ultimately fail at that job. If not now, later, if not this one, that one. That's why I stick with Kadees.

Andy
 
I just swapped out 30 cars this last weekend with #5 kadees. Cost about 40 bucks but well worth it. They even couple on turns. The plastic ones never did.
 
I'm surprised

With all this advise and experience flying around the room, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Kadee coupler height gage. After all, the best couplers in the world are useless if they don't line up properly!:p
 
Last year I redid all my cars(190 of them) & engines(65 of them) w/99% Kadee's & a few I almost threw out the front door & those I put McHenry's on. So far I haven't had toooo maanny problems w/the batch. I have a Kadee heighth gage & a gage I bought from MicroMark. They both work great. W/out the heighth gage like "kbkchooch said", they are useless.
You also need to check your axels & wheels for alignment. Both go hand in hand.
They(couplers) don't just drop in like the book says. It takes a lot of installing, reinstalling & wedgeing, grinding, adding shims & loseing your temper sometimes to get everything lined up. You would think that after 49 years of MRR I would have it down pat. Doesn't work that way.
Learn, relearn & relearn again. Takes a lot of patience & persaverance.
You all just keep asking "Questions"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry
 
Instead of altering the height of the coupler, you could buy kadee couplers with different set shanks. #5s are centerset by default, but they also make all metal couplers (that are identical to the #5) with overset and underset shanks to raise or lower coupler height without modifications.
 
While we're on the subject of Kadee knuckles, I would like to convert all of my rolling stock to have knuckles. I know how to get ahold of them, and I know about Kadee's little chart, but all but two of my cars originally came with horn-hooks installed in their trucks. Do I need to get new trucks, or can I just replace the horn-hooks with knuckles?
 
Stuff runs better with body mounted couplers instead of truck mounted couplers. It's prototypical and doesn't derail/uncouple as much.

You'll have to look at the way the couplers are attached to the truck. If they have a nub in the middle to hold the loop part of the horn hook and is the correct distance from the edge of the coupler box, then yes, you can put in a regular kadee coupler. If the horn hook is not held in with the pin through the loop (like on a AHM/IHC/rivarossi) then you'll have to cut the coupler off the truck and screw in a kadee box. The whisker kadee will NOT work in a AHM/IHC/Rivarossi.
 
Start the hole with a thumbtack, then use a screw with a pointy end (self tapping screw). It will tap itself if you put it in with a screwdriver and a strong arm.
 
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