John Allen's G&D Railroad


Greg@mnrr

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
I was happy to see on the cover of the October 2018 issue of Model Railroader magazine featuring an article center on Operation on John Allen's Gorre & Daphetid model railroad. The article has several photographs of the G&D that I haven't seen and gave me a different prospective on the layout in a way not shown in prior articles written about John Allen. The first panoramic photograph of the layout is striking and shows the control panel of G&D with the layout in the background.

This model railroad was an inspiration to me and it was the book written by Lynn Westcott Model Railroading with John Allen, that after I once read this book in 1981, that I returned to model railroading with a passion.

I have an December 1981 issue of Model Railroader that featured the G&D railroad. The cover photo of the Squaw Creek High Bridge of this issue and the surrounding scenery showcases Allen's modeling skills. I read this magazine so many times that I actually worn it out and had to purchased a replacement magazine at a swap meet several years ago. The former copy of the magazine could hold only so many pieces of cellopane tape.

It's hard to believe the numerous skills Allen had to possess to be able to create this magnificent railroad in the years prior that we now have the modeling products like ground foam, car kits, weathering materials, tree making kits, craftsmanship structures and so many other products.

I know Montanan on the Forum was fortunate to have been able to actually have the great opportunity to have operated on the G&D and Chet has shared some of his experiences on the G&D with the Forum members. The late Andy Sperandeo, a former editor of Model Railroader magazine has done a video on MR Video Plus that recounts his operating experiences on the G&D.

I can't forgot the work of George Sellios and his Franklin and South Manchester Railroad or Howard Zane's Piermont Division and the influence they also had on myself and my model railroading.

What model railroaders and their layouts have made impressions on you and influenced your modeling?

Thanks.

Greg
 
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The really funny thing about the G&D is that, as I understand it, Model Railroading was not really John's primary passion and focus. He was into photography and journalism. Developing the model railroad provided him much fodder to use in those two pursuits. He must have had more ability and creativity in his left hand then I have in my whole being to be able to do it so well.

For me the biggest influence has to be the V&O. One of my first Model Railroad Craftsman magazines had an article about the V&O in it. I had to research like mad (many trips to the library back then) to figure out that it was not a real railroad, and just a model. The full back story and believable history has had me planning mine for over 40 years. None of this "I do what I want" stuff regardless of how ludicrous allowed. If a real railroad wouldn't have done it, then I can't do it. Add that to the "good enough" philosophy Allen McClelland used for implementing the thing and the bar was set for me. Is it real or is it MY railroad?
 
It wasn't any particular person, but seeing the layout of Chicago to Seattle at the museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. I was probably 8 or so when I seen it, and said I'm going to build something like that someday. I ask for, and received my first Bachmann set for my birthday, and as they say the rest is history. Its funny that I left the hobby early in high school, and didn't pick it up till 30 years later. Those that haven't seen the layout its worth a look.

https://www.msichicago.org/explore/whats-here/exhibits/great-train-story/
 
I've read several articles on the G&D as well as the Lynn Westcott book. I find the G&D fascinating in that the engines didn't just run, they worked and worked hard. I'm a huge fan of the rural portions. Several of his buildings spark ideas with me.
 
migalyto said:
It wasn't any particular person, but seeing the layout of Chicago to Seattle at the museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. I was probably 8 or so when I seen it, and said I'm going to build something like that someday. I ask for, and received my first Bachmann set for my birthday, and as they say the rest is history. Its funny that I left the hobby early in high school, and didn't pick it up till 30 years later. Those that haven't seen the layout its worth a look.

https://www.msichicago.org/explore/whats-here/exhibits/great-train-story/
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The current MSI layout dates back to 2000. I worked in the first building you see as you enter and that building was brand new. I grew up with the layout's large scale predecessor of the Santa Fe and the Grande Canyon. A real work of art but it just wore out. The sides on it was corrugated stainless steel from Budd rail cars.
 
I also was influenced by the V&O. Also the Utah Belt. The concept of the model railroad as a whole. The concept of a freelanced railroad that could have been. Thinking like actual railroad management trying to sustain a profitable business.
Although I currently model an era earlier than those model railroads I have copied the core ideas and used them on my layout. I also stole some history from prototype railroads.
 
The RMC articles on the V&O shaped my modeling, as did Bruce Chubb's Sunset Valley featured in Model Railroader.
 
All of the books mentioned: Westcott's Gorre & Daphetid, The V&O by Allen McClelland, Bruce Chubb's Sunset Valley and I have also visited the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry's Layout and they have all been influential; or,very impressive, to say the least. Still for me it was seeing and reading all that was published in magazines about John Allen's G&D line. I have gone back through every issue of Model Railroader in the M.R. Archives and enjoyed them and wish that there was the same option for Model Railroad Craftsman as I would read every one of them, too. What I find impressive about the G&D is the fact that the scenery was floor to ceiling and almost all of the models where scratch built as kit's did not exist for what John Allen undertook with his layout. Most of the building having taken place in the late 1940s, on through the 50s, 60s and on into the beginning of 6the 1970s and I think this is above and beyond!

We could argue endlessly about which layout was most influential to us; but, I don't see that being productive. It is whoever you feel it is, so enjoy the facts and let's have fun!
 
I really enjoyed that article in MR. It brought back a lot of good model railroading memories. John had quite a sense of humor. I got some of his "crappy" jobs, but enjoyed operating on the layout. He could assign you a locomotive and tasks to do, but would put heavily weighted cars that the assigned locomotive could hardly handle normally and he bellow at you that you were falling behind. He knew that you couldn't do what was needed. Quite the jokester.

In magazines the layout looked huge but I was astonished how smaller it actually was. I got along good with John in the short time that I was stationed at Mare Island on instructor duty while in the Navy. I was an avid photographer and that was Johns business. One thing that he impressed on me was that the easiest way to find problems with the layout was through photography. For us today, it is quite easy with modern digital photography. Somewhere, I have photos I took while visiting his layout, but have no idea where they are. I would love to find them.

A good friend who I have mentioned here on the forum, the late Pete Ellis, who was a master modeler had also visited Johns layout and it was easy to see how he had inspired Pete's layout, with scenery going right to the floor and some of his amazing mini scenes. I am glad to see that his layout was able to be saved and is now part of the Montana Museum of Railroad History.

I had originally thought about having a mountain railroad with many bridges like John had on his layout when I finally got room in the basement for a layout. When I first had the room, I was in N scale and had mountains with numerous bridges and 11 scale miles of main line track, but as I have mentioned before, the N scale locomotives at the time (late 70's) were crude compared to what is availoable today and everything was torn out and I moved on to HO scale. A lot of thought was put into planning the layout, but the decision was made to model the area where I live now. I realized that I hadn't yet acquired the scenery skills needed for mountain scenes.

One thing that did inspire me was the detail he put into locomotives. they were all awesome. I liked his idea of freelancing and being that I didn't have the room to model even a portion of a subdivision of either the Northern Pacific or the Milwaukee Road, freelancing was what I chose, custom painting and detailing my fleet of locomotives.

Operating on Johns layout was quite the opportunity to see a master at work.
 
Have to love how he the late John Allen had his mountain Scenes to the Floor ! Though it and Bruce Chubb's SV weren't among my favorites .

BCK RR aka Tom
 
The G&D is probably the most spectacular model RR of all, but some others had their own bits of genius. A more obscure MRR was the late Harry Clarks B&O RR with hand made trees. Best I'd ever seen. I worked at a hobby shop and we played Allen Keller's Model railroad tours all day long. Another that actually tricked me was on the cover of Mainline Modeler was Northern Pacific of Jack Parker, owner of Central valley Products. Those layouts can really get you modelling.
 
Y3a said:
Another that actually tricked me was on the cover of Mainline Modeler was Northern Pacific of Jack Parker, owner of Central valley Products. Those layouts can really get you modelling.
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So that's why Central Valley does so much NP stuff!
 
Gary B said:
The current MSI layout dates back to 2000. I worked in the first building you see as you enter and that building was brand new. I grew up with the layout's large scale predecessor of the Santa Fe and the Grande Canyon. A real work of art but it just wore out. The sides on it was corrugated stainless steel from Budd rail cars.
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Yeah, those were the days. The Santa Fe layout was O-scale, and run by a "computer" system consisting of relays. I've seen the newer layout, but I guess I still like the old one.
 
Per Iron Horsemen: "So that's why Central Valley does so much NP stuff"!

Jack Parker modeled Logan Montana, where the Northern Pacific main split in two at Logan Junction, Passenger trains going over Homestack Pass into Butte and the freight line going through Helena Montana and joining the passenger line at Garrison Montana.
 
Greg@mnrr said:
What model railroaders and their layouts have made impressions on you and influenced your modeling?
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I had a Model Railroader subscription very early on as a kid. I think starting at about age 10, and my very first issue had an article about Pelle Soeborg's Tehachapi Loop layout. This was my first real exposure to prototype model railroading and not just running train sets around in a loop on the floor. I'd have to say Pelle and Tony Koester were the biggest influences on my model railroad pursuits, atleast until 2008 when I joined this forum.

I think the years of reading about other people's model railroads have finally hit me hard. I started out wanting to model modern BNSF and UP trains as seen in Minnesota, but I finally decided to change my focus to 1970's Milwaukee Road in Minnesota. I'm not giving up my modern equipment because it still has a place to be seen at the club layout, but I'm enjoying the new opportunities my change offers such as REA, Penn Central cars, and others that are no longer seen, and the majority of my freight car pool doesn't have to change.
 
The G&D was not really one of my primary influences, but I do remember [when I was ~14] an article in either MR or RMC about his city of Port, and how he simulated the water, bridges, skyscrapers and the ferry - and thought that was pretty cool. I also saw an article on Allan McClelland's V&O and loved how he made his layout look and feel like my favorite prototype road [the B&O].

What really kept my mrr interest alive during my teens was a visit to the Severna Park Model Railroad Club. This was my first "live" exposure to actual scale model railroading done in a large space; seeing all the scenery and detailed, realistically-weathered buildings by a master scratchbuilder [Dr. Logan Holtgrewe] up-close-and-personal was a life-changing experience.

When I returned to the hobby after a 15-year hiatus, reading a series of MR articles by Dean Freytag on modeling the steel industry showed me that steelmaking architecture could actually be modeled. When Walthers introduced their Cornerstone Blast Furnace and other steel-industry kits, that made my lifelong dream of having a steel mill layout a reality!
 
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