Interesting track plan, Tupper Lake & Faust Junction

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beiland

Well-Known Member
#81
...from another forum...
Mocking it up by setting track next to each other or placing on marked up paper is probably not as precise as you want for this situation.
I think the suggestions were more about actually laying some track of several feet then running all of your equipment through it to give you a better idea. You already have the track it looks like. In the flesh trials would give you better results than theoretical discussions and mathematical computations.

I didn't have the time today to get all of that equipment out to perform such a test as suggested. But I did do a little abbreviated version. I attached some 22" curves onto either end of the outer radius, and an 18" curve onto the diverging track.



I selected a few freight cars (40 & 50 footers) and ran them back and forth thru this. One even had the old sprung trucks with very small flange wheels . They ran just find.

One thing I did notice is that made a very slight jog at the point end of the turnout. That is a result of that end being slightly straight in nature compared to the other curved portions. Perhaps you can see that here,..




One nice detail on this Peco dbl-curve is that fact that the point rail has a radius built in.




I believe that most any car/loco that can traverse either 18"r or 22"r on their own, will be able to negotiate the respective route of this turnout. I don't think they will be prone to picking the points here, or having trouble with the frog.

I am also feeling good about utilizing 2 of these dbl-curves at the head of the ladder. So the first 2 diverging routes will be 18" radius entrances, and limited to cars/locos that can use them. The rest will be cars/locos that can negotiate 22" curves, which are many.

Longer cars/locos that need at least 24" radius could enter from the mainline track, up the ladder, then duck into a yard track thru the Peco 'small radius' conventional turnouts that make up the ladder, and that have a diverging route of 24" inches.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#82
I was playing around with this idea.

Seeing as how my single dbl-curve turnout didn't bring that yard track out to the proposed edge of my shelf, I might well put in another dbl-curve, and end up with an additional yard track for storage or that might serve my steel mill, etc. So maybe 2 dbl-curves at the head of the ladder. .

If I should experience any derail problems with these Peco dble curves, turns out I have a number of other brands I collected over the years,....Atlas, Roco, Casadyo. ...And lastly they will be very close to the aisle for accessibility.

Will fooling around with this idea, I wondered if I might provide for a 24" radius track to enter that peninsula area? This is what I came up with do far. The tape measure lying there is set at 30", my initial idea for shelf depth on that side of the layout. The white paper cutout represents the aisle space, also 30" wide.

The two parallel tracks on the upper left side would serve the turntable and the curved route with steam engine access, and would go under the a coaling tower along there. The addition 'outside chute' (third rail) of the coaling tower would serve the ladder straight for those smaller steam switchers.













 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#83
I am struggling with a similar situation with my desire to but a small freight yard scene on the bottom deck of my new plan. Here is a quick sketch I did, and it has already been pointed out that I will likely NOT be able to fit that many yard tracks in there.



How many spurs is not that important to me, but of course I would like to maximize it.

I have seen the recommendations about a 2" spacing between tracks in a freight yard, but how does one achieve this? Do I assume it is done via the shortest length turnouts? I have Peco small radius streamline ones. Or would I consider the even shorter 'set track' Pecos?

I gave consideration to this idea of utilizing the even shorter length Peco 'set track' turnouts, but rejected it due to their tight radius diverging track. The 'small radius' Peco streamlines have a diverging route of 24" radius.

I also gave considerations to 'trimming the Peco turnouts to lessen their length. The ladder is a combo of the paper templates of Peco 'small radius' turnouts trimmed to fit as tight as possible together. These 4 turnouts would feed 4 flex tracks that would have straight and curves of no less than 22" to end up spaced 2"- 2.25" center to center spacing.



I didn't really like the idea of trimming each of those Pecos, so this morning I decided to see what just how much longer that yard ladder would be it the turnouts were installed 'untrimmed' ? I got quite a surprise, the total length of the 4 turnouts along the ladder was only increased by approx 1.5 inches !



I can fit that into my plan, so no trimming necessary.
 

otiscnj

Active Member
#84
Years and years ago, Model Power imported a 18-22" 'curved switch, with brass track. Great for lengthening sidings, but needed to modify some loco pilots, to avoid derailments due to the switch machine. I've bought a few of these to use on 'industrial tracks,' where my plan was to run smaller stuff. I've used a number of the larger double radius switches from Pecco, on the mainline, which has a 28" minimum radii standard on the inner tracks, however the outer curve is so large, that it can really cause problems from a 'making things fit' perspective.

Have you tried running anything thru the curved switch, that you plan on using? Might be worth it, to see if it will work or not. Good luck, and I'd be interested in knowing the results.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#85
Yard Ladder & Loops into Peninsula

...from another forum...
The simplest solution for the yard ladder would be to change where the feed to the yard is located on the peninsula from the left side to the right side. I don't know how badly that will mess up your plans for the peninsula though. It will require some crossings to get to the left side of the peninsula. I have shown 90 degree crossings here but you might be able to fit in other angles.
The aisles are 30" and the peninsula is 24" wide:
Basically I had hopes that some of the trains could enter that peninsula area head on, then disconnect the big locos that brought them there, and let smaller swithers handle the spoting and unloading of the individual cars in the peninsula area. Meanwhile the big steam locos would head off to the turntable/roundhouse area. The diesels would go over to their servicing and/or rebuilding area at the far edge of the freight yardI had thought that this relocation of the lead engines might have to occur on track(s) located along the very left side of the peninsula, rather than those engines ending up over to the right hand side of the peninsula then having to cross back over the central track that brought them into the peninsula area.



***************************************

More Thoughts on Peninsula Trackplan

So here is an image of the original peninsula plan of TL / FJ plan, posted into my present plan,...
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#86
Yard Ladder Turnouts and Loops from Peninsula


I have been playing around with the design of the trackplan for this area for a few weeks now. And I have had my share of naysayers commenting about my original use of tight radius curved turnouts at the head of the ladder. There have been a few suggesting that I utilize a pinwheel configuration in the ladder, and I have taken time to give this idea serious considerations. I've even mocked up a few of these possibilities.

I have reached the conclusion that these broader radius loops generated by the slightly broader radius 24”+ plus pinwheel arrangements force my loops of track connecting the peninsula to the freight yard and the turntable, to a situation where the one end of that track ends up in the middle, or to the opposite side of the peninsula. I don't find that to be acceptable (if avoidable) in the overall scheme.


So this is the trackplan design I have chosen. There will be 2 'concentric' loops connecting the peninsula to the freight yard. The outer one will be 24” radius minimum for the bigger locos, and the inner one will be basically 22”. but with 2 spurs of 18” plus.


Those two 18”spurs will be inner legs of the 2 curved (I call them dbl-curved) turnouts at the head of the ladder. Those 2 turnouts will be either a pair of Pecos or a pair of Roco turnouts, both of nice quality. There is the further possibility that I could do some slight modifications to either of these curved turnouts to increase their radii slightly. Shown here, the pair of ROCOs


The first Roco encountered has an 18”r diverging leg and one piece of 18”r track into that second track of the yard. The second Roco encountered has an 18”r diverging leg into a 22” curve, and into the third track in the yard.



All of the rest of yard tracks are fed by minimum 24” diverging legs off of Peco 'small' turnouts in the ladder. Crossovers and double slips can be arranged to make the second and third tracks of the yard accessible by 24”r capable equipment. Even the very first yard track could be linked such as to have 24”r capability further down the line, but that likely will not be necessary as it will be involved with short locos and cars of the steel industry.


I have run some pushing/pulling (by hand) test of container well cars over these curves, and experienced no problems even in the 18” curves which are possibly set as 'off-limits' to these longer cars. And I connected two such wellcars together, and to a VERY short tender car. No problems. I'll post some photos a bit later.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#87
I have run some pushing/pulling (by hand) test of container well cars over these curves, and experienced no problems even in the 18” curves which are possibly set as 'off-limits' to these longer cars. And I connected two such wellcars together, and to a VERY short tender car. No problems. I'll post some photos a bit later.
Brian​

I hooked up 2 of the Peco curved turnouts to sections of 22" and 18" Atlas sectional track, and ran some container 'well cars' over it. I weighted the well cars with a couple of steel bolts, and I finally hooked a very short tender car to those well cars. Everything with 'well'

















 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#88
Freight Yard Opinion

Originally posted by mark_dalrymple on another forum
Hi Brian.
Not what I would do with the space - but I am still enjoying your journey. I love to cram things in - but over the years I have found my track work keeps getting stripped back to make room for more structures and scenery.
Cheers, Mark.​



I guess I am more of an 'industry' based structures person than a country or city scenery person. (I did play with 'erector sets' as a kid, and went into mech engineering).

That freight yard will be connected to steel mill and fabrication works down at the end. And I hope to put in a diesel engine repair shop along with the sanding and fuel oil services for the diesels. And yard lights on towers and dwarf lights on the tracks.

One of my basic hopes for the freight yard scene was to also be able to:
1)park a few of many different diesel engines at times (waiting for repair, or waiting to be sent out),

2)park a few of my unusual and very neat freight cars I hate to keep buried in staging,

3)provide for a little switching activity.
4) etc
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#89
Mirror Use,...maybe?


A crazy though came to mind EARLY (too early) this morning,...what about locating a mirror behind the steel mill?

I recall reading some thoughts from John Armstrong about the use of mirrors on layouts to 'expand the scene and/or hide some tracks'. I did a little bit of experimenting with the idea on my old layout. The mirror made the container yard look a lot larger, and made the freight yard look more extensive.

The tracks were making a 90 degree turn here around that door opening into some staging tracks. The mirrors themselves were just those foot square 'mirrored tiles' I stuck up in a temporary fashion to block the view into the laundry room of the basement.



So I was wondering what might be the effect of placing a mirror(s) behind the steel mill, but in front of the mainline track(s) behind it?
1) might make that steel mill and other industry look more extensive
2) might make my freight yard look even bigger
3) might hide the mainline tracks that are very close behind the blast furnance

 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#90
Container Port on Peninsula


So I was surfing around the internet looking for some ideas for my little container unloading facility on my peninsula. I ran across this rather interesting one, but I think it may be a bit too large for my space


 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#91
Container Crane

I was looking thru the internet for container cranes and found this rather interesting one. Its described as a Bachmann (European one I believe), 44-0009 Container Terminal Crane by Bachmann in OO scale. Pretty neat.





I like this one !

How about doubled up !!

I first found a pic on google images....





A large resin model of a modern container crane. This model features a very high level of detail including etched railings, fixed container crane unit, glazed windows and a weathered finish. This is a large model so will sit nicely as a center piece in a dock yard or industrial scene.
Measurements:

  • Length: 227mm
  • Width: 266mm
  • Height: 348mm
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#92
Trackage Explanation

I may be missing something, but it looks like this ladder doesn't connect to the mainline
I guess some of my photos and dwgs can be a little confusing at times, particularly when I keep playing around with mock-ups.
That yard ladder connects to one of the mainlines down in the lower left area. The tracks on that left wall of the layout are:
1) first, the track along the wall that connects with the staging area tracks via several 'sub'-loops of the helix.
2) next out is one of the mainlines that goes into a level loop in the helix, then....

3) comes back out to present itself as the second mainline along the frieght yard. That's the one the yard ladder connects to on its bottom end. That second mainline is also where the steam engines from the coaling tower enter the fray.

Further down along that side of the layout there will be a double crossover between these 2 mainlines,...that will allow for the trains to reverse direction around the layout as a whole.
And it will also allow for the big steam locos coming out of the turntable area to get over to the outer mainline to head-up certain trains coming up out of staging.
 

otiscnj

Active Member
#93
Regarding your freight yard and using the 18" radius curves-maybe you restrict the equipment that can use the facility. Some railroads do this all the time. If you're not going to story 85' passenger cars, or auto boxes on those tracks, 'why not?' I think you're track plan is coming along, and that you ought to have a very interesting layout when you're done. Years ago, I decided that I was going to limit myself in most cases to 73' passenger cars, and 60' freight cars. Back in the 70's and 80's, these cars were much more common, and locomotives were not as huge, either. I've since made a few exceptions, but generally stuck to this rule.

Where'd you find the container crane(to buy)? Looks great!
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#95
That's what I thought as well about the scale. But even though its a Bachmann its fairly expensive

This might make a very interesting structure to kitbash ? (I need to look up that very nice overhead crane structure Doctorwayne built for his engine/car repair facility,...oops another forum))
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#96
Full Size Drawing


Two days ago i decided I was going to make a full scale dwg of my freight yard ladder trackplan so I could 'record' what I had mocked up on my living room floor,....and I could make it very exact with the scale size paper templates available from Peco.


I have a nice 4x8 table out in my carport to lay a paper out on and tape the turnout templates to it. then all I would have to do when it comes to laying the actual track onto the plywood roadbed is lay this rolled-up paper dwg down as a guide.


So I was looking around for suitable paper to make this dwg on. Being budget minded I thought what about all this Christmas wrapping paper available from the dollar stores,...using the white backside?? I was NOT really impressed with its 'sturdiness' .


My contractor friend suggested a roll of brown paper they utilized to protect floors during construction/painting/etc. I got some from him, and started the dwg / pasting project. had to quite over night so i covered it over with a bedsheet and some vapor barrier material they use on houses. Next morning I found the paper had still absorbed some moisture and was wriggled up in a nice too inviting manner. My thoughts were 'what sort of accuracy' was I going to end up with here after spending much time accurately laying out out my track plan??












'Back to the drawing board', I believe they say. Going to have to find some alternative paper. And probably need to roll it up each night and put it inside.


PS: What made things more challenging was trying to keep those small paper templates of the switches corralled in the small wind gust that keep invading the carport....ha...ha
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#97
Two days ago i decided I was going to make a full scale dwg of my freight yard ladder trackplan so I could 'record' what I had mocked up on my living room floor,....and I could make it very exact with the scale size paper templates available from Peco.

I have a nice 4x8 table out in my carport to lay a paper out on and tape the turnout templates to it. then all I would have to do when it comes to laying the actual track onto the plywood roadbed is lay this rolled-up paper dwg down as a guide.

My contractor friend suggested a roll of brown paper they utilized to protect floors during construction/painting/etc. I got some from him, and started the dwg / pasting project. had to quite over night so i covered it over with a bedsheet and some vapor barrier material they use on houses. Next morning I found the paper had still absorbed some moisture and was wriggled up in a nice too inviting manner. My thoughts were 'what sort of accuracy' was I going to end up with here after spending much time accurately laying out out my track plan??
Bummer. I got a roll of butcher paper for this sort of thing. However I've never tried to use it in a car port or other outside situation. I'm guessing it would crinkle in a similar manner.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#98
I'm continuing forward with this paper as I have yet not detected a dimension change.

I would think that 'butchers paper' would be waxed paper?

I'm actually enjoying this method of planing the trackplan as is it almost liking laying the real track,...a big jig-saw puzzle.

I'll take some more photos in the next few days. Some little details have changed,....and I have the basics of the peninsula tracks settling in.
 
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beiland

Well-Known Member
Reverse Loops

Fri, 2019-03-22 12:43 — railandsail

Sorry I do realize that track plans I present here are incomplete, but I do think there is enough of them to estimate the number of problems I may encounter with reverse loops. Anyone care to comment?
Basically it would appear to me that I have a number of situations where tracks are looping around, BUT not coming back upon themselves, RATHER they are becoming the other side of the double mainlines??

Bottom Deck Track Plan
Sat, 2018-10-13 08:21 — railandsail
....just going to post the dwg this morning and I will add some text later this weekend. If you have been following this blog you will notice I changed the location of a number of 'scenes'

New Top Deck Track Plan
Fri, 2018-10-12 12:01 — railandsail
Trans-Continental Theme
I'm at the point now that my new layout plan has progressed significantly past the TL&F Junction plan, the one that originally inspired me. With that in mind I seriously considered starting a new subject thread titled “the Trans-Continental Connector, East meets West”, and proceeding with new postings and layout discussions under that title.
But there is so much material already contained in this subject thread that will have relevance with the new plan, I will just continue on this path for the moment.
My hopes that a more professional or inspired computer trackplan designer would come along and help me with ideas/images of alternative track plans for the 2 main decks of my layout have been delayed again, ….maybe as much as another 6 months.
So I had better get started on some new ideas myself. I sketched this up just recently for the very top deck
TOP DECK, Idea #1


I previously suggested that the bottom deck would represent Balt and east coast, and the top deck would represent LA and the west coast. Well that is NOT going to work. My debate centered around the fact that if I had the entire upper deck representing the west coast and primarily a source of container trains,...how was I going to get to run all my beautiful steam engines up there if i remained true to the idea that steam engines didn't pull container trains??
I think I will do 2 things, the second one most important,....
1) Like you I will run some container trains with steam engines,
2) I have divided up my upper deck in half,...one side will represent the LA area and source of container trains headed to the east coast (lower level), and the other half will be coal mines, timber, etc with freight cars that would have been pulled by steam engines. There will be a 'hidden track' behind the west coast scene so the good old steam trains can pass over to the other half of the upper deck without having to pass in front of the Santa Fe station and the stacked containers/ docks/ships.

That 'hidden track' is on the left had side in the dwg and likely accomplished with some sort of scenic blocker just tall enough to hide that steam train, and camouflaged by being painted with ships & cranes that blend in with the container yard.
The other mainlines and sidings out in front of of the Santa Fe station and the container yard will be for those diesel powered trains that are pulling long container trains or passenger trains. One of those 'sidings' out front should be reserved to hold a full consist of the infamous Santa Fe passenger train (I've got both the Walthers set and some nice MTH cars).

That inside corner (in front of the station) could well serve 2 functions.
1) A parking area for some of the nice Santa Fe diesels I have
2) A big fueling and sanding area for those diesels getting ready to make the trip east.
3) I had thought there might be a loco maintenance building somewhere here, but it would not be a good idea to cram it in here ,...how about down that side at the other end,...in an area of that 'continuous loop track'? There might even be some more extensive fuel oil tanks down there.??

Across the entrance-way bridge on the right had side of the layout is a fairly big piece of real estate that is open to suggestions.?
That right hand side will represent 'industries/scenes' from the middle of the country or the Appalachians. Some sort of coal mine is needed to fill up coal hauling trains and bring some to the steel mill. I just randomly placed that coal mine scene in there , but I like some of its trackage and non-liner design.

On this upper level I am proposing to put some logging tracks and trains down that peninsula. There might be a very tight loop at the free end of the peninsula for the short logging locos to run. Or it might be just a back and forth operation for them. They will bring logs out to the saw mill scene at the trunk end of the peninsula. I have the whole Walthers saw mill kit(s) and would like to make this scene some sort of transfer of logs to cut product that would be loaded onto mainline log cars and center-beam loaded cars, and a number of other wood carrying cars ( I have quite a variety).

Then to just throw a curved ball at the situation. I've actually thought that these two sides could be reversed? The upper deck on that left hand side is a little bit deeper than the one on the right.​
That one upper loop might well reconnect with itself and present a 'reverse loop'

(sorry for such a long posting, I just find it more 'complete' to include the 'background material', rather than expecting the reader to find previous postings themselves)
 





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