Interesting track plan, Tupper Lake & Faust Junction

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beiland

Well-Known Member
#61
Finished the lining of my shed's interior this afternoon. Been a very slow process as I let myself get interrupted numerous times with designing ideas for the staging tracks, the addition to the helix for the access track, the gathering of materials for a new style brackets for the dbl-deck shelves, etc, etc.

Hope to start cutting and welding metal for the brackets for the lower main shelf and staging shelf, and actually mounting some of those very soon. Next will be to cut the shelfs for the staging level and laying the track and turnouts on it.

A little problem arose on my new helix design. I was seeking out a metal fabricator that could bend me a couple of big circular hoops of angle iron. He came back to me with too high of a price, so I need to seek out another outfit, or modify my design.



Saving those corners to do later when I decide whether to make them circular or square.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#62
I'll add a few updates to this subject thread as they are spread out on a few individual other threads

Multiply Staging Tracks



Steel Frames to Support Plywood Shelves

I am pretty much set on this design, and I am already cutting out the roadbeds for the helix that will serve this area. The framing support for the plywood roadbed for this staging level has changed and has simplified in construction. I expect to start cutting some plywood for the staging level very soon, painting it for water/humidity resistance, and mounting track on it. It will still be removable in large sections so work can be completed on main level just above it.

Helix
Construction of the external helix itself should start within a week or 2. Just this weekend I have been excavating the dirt behind the shed in order to pour the concrete pad that will exist under the helix. (is this what model railroading is like,...digging dirt and pouring concrete...blah)


Thru Wall Tunnels

I'm going to start to cut holes in the back wall of the shed,...for tracks that will serve that external helix. Those holes thru the wall will likely be 'tunneled' thru using plastic drain spout sections. I found some nice rectangular rain spout that will accomodate a single consist train, (the one on the right). The other section is PVC fence post. Both are 4 inches high, and quite stiff due to the shape







Steel Mill Corner & Balt City Corner

I've pretty much decided that the helix end of the layout will look like this,....with the steel scene in the right hand corner, the turntable somewhat like depicted, a center track feeding the peninsula, then the left corner a scene of Balt depicted by thin/shallow city buildings, and paintings on backdrop.


 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#64
I just like Model Trains,...of all sorts....the scale miniaturization.

I'm particularly fond of steam engines, and particularly the large ones. I'm a fan of C&O, B&O, NW, etc, etc.

And as a kid of course I had the ubiquitous Santa Fe diesel engine,...those famous worldwide recognizable colors.

I had recently returned from Asia and was living in the Wash-Balt area when a company in Balt called Life Like made the bold move to really upgrade plastic trains to nice scale models. They introduced their Proto 2000 line. They introduced a whole line of detailed diesel locos, then they introduced that superb 2-8-8-2 steam engine.....WOW. They set a standard in plastic scale model trains that the others quickly followed. Bachmann, Athearn, etc all jumped on the band wagon to introduce their premium lines as well. Plastic detailing became an art that eventually was a rival to brass locos.



I was collecting a little of everything. I would buy some stuff that eventually got superseded by even better stuff, so I would attend the Great Scale Train Show in Balt and sell off older stuff and try to upgrade to the better stuff coming out. I would visit John Glabb's Peach Creek brass shop in Laural, Md, and droll over the brass locos which I considered beyond my reach, but then look what was coming out in plastic a few months later.


By this time I had collected quite a few steam engines of various lines, and principle a number of diesels from Santa Fe.

So when it came to planning my new layout, how could I choose just one time frame, or location, if I wanted to collect and run all of those type trains? I wanted to run steam and diesel, and I wanted to run east coast and west coast lines.....on one layout??

I've decided my trains are going to run from the east coast to the west coast,...Balt to Calif. I'll call it the Continental Connector. Balt will be on the lower deck and Calif will be on the upper deck.


Since I am not a stickler on time frames I'll be able to run both modern and older style freight and passenger cars on my layout, and of course steam and diesels. I'm going to have lots of staging that will present any number of variations,...including a few European trains I've collected. Yes it won't be prototypical, but it will be fun. And I hope to get a considerable amount of industry in this space as well.

I will need a big dia helix to get those trains between decks, so to save on interior space, I have decided to place that helix structure external to the shed in which the layout is built. Most all the parts of the helix structure are built, and assembly will begin in the next two weeks. Withing 3days (working between spring rain storms here in FL) I hope to pour the concrete pad that will exist below the helix structure hung off the rear of the train shed.

Then the shelving will begin inside the shed,...plywood and metal benchwork is all assembled.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#65
For the past number of months I have been working on some peripheral aspects of my layout while waiting for some help that was offered by a semi-professional designer. With that in mind I sort of ignored the primary layout plans and went about building and planning the staging area tracks, the helix structure, and the basic benchwork design and structure that would all be needed for any dbl-track layout.

Just a few days ago I wrote him this letter to inquire about his design help. He had original told me it would be about 6 months before he could get to my project, but now that wait time has been extended quite a few months.

I believe I'm going to have to move forward on my own (with some help from the public). As I got to relooking at somethings, I've actually confused myself. So any thoughts will be entertained.

Here is the letter I sent to him informing him of my current status,...

**************************************

Track Plan Project of mine, Part3



Dear XXX

Are you still willing to help me with my new layout design??

I have been diligently working on peripheral aspects, but I still need considerable help with details of the trackplan idea.


Helix & Staging

I knew I was going to need a helix structure to move the trains between the 2 primary decks, and I knew I wanted it to be external to the main shed to save room inside for 'the layout'. Concurrently I was looking for how I was going to access that staging area.


I've chosen a route to the staging areas (3 of them) via sub-loops in my helix structure. I've documented the design and construction of that helix structure in its own subject thread on several forums,...one of them here:
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32990?page=9
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32990?page=10

I've enclosed the alum helix structure in its own housing to make it waterproof, and I am now ready to begin to install the helix track and roadbed (already built in semi-circular sections).

I've cut a few of the holes in the back wall of the shed to allow the trains to 'communicate' with the helix. The lower central one for the 3-way turnout leading to the 3 staging areas, and the main (and only) track leading down or up to staging,...on the far left hand side of the main deck (see drawing).



I imagine this staging feeder track will run right along that left side wall to where it will connect in with one (or 2) of the mainlines . For some portion of its run as it comes up from staging into the main shed it will be located under a scene of Baltimore built as a 'flatwall scene' in that complete left hand corner of the layout. That 'Balt scene' should be built of lightweight/liftout flat-type buildings and poster paper dwgs (hopefully I've described it somewhat?). I further imagine that perhaps 1/3 down that side of the layout will be some sort of 'flatware' or drawing of the Mt Royal train station of Balt. That's a pretty iconic station, and it might allow for a B&O passenger train to sit there waiting to enter the action at certain times. (I have 2 primary passenger trains I will run at times,...the B&O and the Santa Fe)

1536895253677.png





Helix spiral
For those having a little problem visualizing my multideck spiral within the helix structure, here is another view....
(that “B” is for 'balloon loop')
1536895256593.png




So now I've accounted for 2 of the holes I have already cut in my shed's rear wall, the one for the single track feeding down into the staging areas, and the one for the 3 tracks entering the back wall for staging.



Bottom Main Deck

Now look at the holes (plural) required for my bottom 'balloon loop'. One of them is right adjacent to staging feeder track on the left. The other(s) are yet undetermined (no holes cut yet).
Originally I had 2 tracks from that balloon loop entering back into the main shed, 1)..one was the extension of the mainline making the loop, and 2) was a feeder track for the central peninsula. This could be changed according to any new layout plan. Perhaps this would just be a single track entering back thru the wall that splits into 2 to continue the mainline and feed the peninsula? Interestingly this would create a wye out in front of the Balt corner.

1536895258548.png






Steel Mill Corner & Balt City Corner

I've pretty much decided that the helix end of the layout will look like this,....with the steel scene in the right hand corner, the turntable somewhat like depicted, a center track feeding the peninsula, then the left corner a scene of Baltimore depicted by thin/shallow city buildings, and paintings on a backdrop.

I have these steel mill buildings (in an already built and weathered fashion) that I would really like to utilize,....and Balt at one time was a BIG steel mill center.
Steel Mill in a Corner http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33344?page=1

1536895259523.png


I even modified my mainline tracks to be able to put that scene in my layout. Those rising grade tracks feed into the double-track helix structure, and one of them has a branch-off to the left to allow for continuous running around the bottom deck without having to go up the helix each time.

So the steel scene, the Balt scene, and the approx position of the turntable is all I have somewhat positive plans for at this moment on that bottom deck. The desire for the turntable in that area is partially fueled by the original Tupper Lake plan, and my desire to display a good number of the great steam engines I have.





Turntable Location
This location of the turntable could be open for debate. As shown now it is on the right hand side of the layout near the steel mill. But my latest thoughts have it put back over on the left side, out in front of the Balt city backdrop. In either case the side on which the turntable is located will also be the side on which the freight yard and the wider wall shelf width of the 2 will be.



Diesel Fueling/Servicing
I have played with the idea of a diesel engine fueling and servicing area down at the right hand lower corner, inside the mainline curves. This would be connected to a freight yard scene that might exist along that side of the layout, between the turntable at its upper edge and the diesel facility at its lower edge

Refinery and/or Oil Stowage Tanks
I also have a lot of oil stowage tanks, refinery, and piping stuff that might be deployed in a 'condensed fashion' in one of those 2 bottom corners, perhaps that refinery scene could be put over on the bottom left hand corner of the layout where there will be a bit more space??
 

Attachments

beiland

Well-Known Member
#66
Continental Theme
There were 2 things that inspired this west coast to east coast model rr theme.
1) My affection for both the Santa Fe and the B&O/C&O trains that I wanted to run all on a single layout.
2) The interesting fact that a lot of container traffic from Asia comes into the west coast to get loaded onto trains that bring it across to the east coast for further shipment to Europe.
So the lower deck represents the east coast, while the upper deck represents the west coast

View attachment 30439



Center Peninsula

The center peninsula design on the lower level is an open question. Basically I like the Tupper Lake design, and would definitely like to make an offloading scene for the many containers/container cars, container trains I have. Perhaps that long building shown on the original design could be converted into a container unloaded center?



Upper Deck

This deck is pretty much an open book at this time. The one item I definitely want up there is a model of this Santa Fe train station. And somehow a way to park a number of really nice Santa Fe locos I have in the vicinity,...maybe even a SF passenger train on occasion.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31423

I need to have a container loading facility with stacks of containers (I have plenty) and a backdrop depicting container ships and cranes at work. I've seen it mentioned that the ordinary trains (passenger, etc) might be able to run on a track behind this scene with the containers or something blocking the view that these trains might appear 'in the water' on the waterfront.... a no..no.

I'm imaging the SF station would be in one of the corners to either side of the entrance door? And the container facility would be along one portion of the side walls.





Logging Scene
At the backwall of the shed on the upper level, the trains might run thru a wooded area that also contains some sort 'trans-shipment area' for the logging industry. In other words the logging locos bring timber products down to cutting/processing facilities and ship out by the mainline running thru there.

The logging trains themselves would run down the hanging peninsula tracks to bring product back to that 'preparation/distribution' area next to the mainline. ( I have a number of the centerbeam cars with lumber loads for the mainline trains to haul around.



I have a fair number of really neat plastic and brass logging locos (and a variety of log cars) I would like to incorporate in my layout somehow. I believe many of these can negotiate tight turns and steep grades that might be put on this relatively small hanging peninsula? ...with hills and trees, perhaps even a small wood trestle bridge??



Misc 'Scenes'

I'm just going to include a few 'scenes' I would like to put on my layout if at all possible (these are only a few I can think of at the moment).



1) Brick Factory
View attachment 30440




I was always surprised that more layouts did NOT include a brick factory of some sort,...I mean it was a very popular building material back in the day. And Balt had a ton of row house built of brick. Even Washington DC had lots of brick. There is still the remnants of a brick factory just outside of DC on the old expressway between DC and Balt.

Many years ago I saw this diorama posted in one of the mags, and said I need such a scene on my next layout. Then a number of years later at the Timonium Train Show I ran into a fellow selling plaster castings of those kilns and stacks. I bought all he had.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33571



2) My Waterfront Scene
I have this WONDERFULL waterfront scene I purchased from an estate sale. Perhaps I could place it at the very end of my peninsula on the lower level. …..the more modern stuff (containers,etc) in the first portion of the peninsula, then this 'older style' waterfront at the 'pointy end' ?
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/waterfront-harbor-s

cene-buildings-barges-tugs-detailed.24497/page-2#post-313942

View attachment 30437



Might have to modify its footprint a littlbit. Trouble is it would set a tone of detail that I COULD NEVER match anywhere else on the layout....:)
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#67
Waterfront Scene Placement ?

I printed out a scale drawing (1" = 1', overhead view) and 'shopped around' for another place on my layout to place it. I think I found a better place than on the peninsula.

I made a scale image of this overhead shot,...








then placed it around a few spots on the layout dwg. Looks like this might be a good spot to located that diorama ,....with a little more 'editing/modifications' to its current perimeters....



 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#68
I was playing around with track plan configurations yesterday, and came up with some interesting variations. I guess one always has to be willing to consider new possibilities, new locations, for various scenes/themes.

One item that remains on my list is this...
WALTHERS 933-3390 LOS ANGELES UNION PASSENGER STATION

As I was googling it today to see its 'footprint' (the Walthers one at least). I found a listing for a new kit on evilBay,......WOW $649 (was originally $199)

Guess its time to build one,...when I finally get that far.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#69
Steel Mill Scene

(reply to a private message from a 'steel mill' enthusiast)


I was playing around with track plan configurations yesterday, and came up with some interesting variations. I guess one always has to be willing to consider new possibilities, new locations, for various scenes/themes.

I made a few minimalist sketches that aren't even ready to post. i need to review them further, and today's football game might interfere with some of that work.

I was also looking at what I might do for the upper deck, and in the process of doing that I opened up another 2 possible locations for my steel mill on the lower deck, and one on the upper deck.


Be advised that I am NOT so interested in expanding the steel mills size to the extent of it being a real 'operations center'. On my layout it exist more as a symbol of Balt's involvement in the steel business, and the fact that I appreciate its symbol as an great industry model.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#70
LED Lighting in my Train Shed

I thought I had previously posted some photos of my selected LED lighting, but could not find them,...so here are a few








So far I have made 2 purchases from Amazon. the latest these 8, 4-footer for $59
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079BKDSXF?ref=em_1p_0_ti&ref_=pe_3676590_357260110
Before that these 6, 4-footers for $49
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HBT3BVM?ref=em_1p_0_ti&ref_=pe_3753960_356832490

About $8 each...pretty cheap.
They take a beating (rough handling), they link up, and they provide a lot of light, and very easy to mount.
If you don't care for them ultimately you can aways use them in your staging area.
I've already run a little experiment and intend to use them in my staging area, and on the main deck under the upper deck. Likely I will continue to use then to light my upper deck as well.
Got a pic on the site somewhere?​




Could not find the pics i thought I had posted,...including some experiments i made with underdeck lighting utilizing these fixtures. So I took a few news photos today of just these lights mounted to the ceiling in order to get some 'working lights' for layout construction work.




















 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#71
Container Trains pulled by Steam Engines

Container Trains with Steam Engines

Eric, i see that you a pulling container trains with a steam engine

I was just recently having a debate with myself as I design my new layout track plan.
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/interesting-track-plan-tupper-lake-faust-junction.29767/page-4#post-440745

Continental Theme
There were 2 things that inspired this west coast to east coast model rr theme.
1) My affection for both the Santa Fe and the B&O/C&O trains that I wanted to run all on a single layout.
2) The interesting fact that a lot of container traffic from Asia comes into the west coast to get loaded onto trains that bring it across to the east coast for further shipment to Europe.
So the lower deck represents the east coast, while the upper deck represents the west coast

My debate centered around the fact that if I had the entire upper deck representing the west coast and primarily a source of container trains,...how was I going to get to run all my beautiful steam engines up there if i remained true to the idea that steam engines didn't pull container trains.

I think I will do 2 things:
1) Like you I will run some container trains with steam engines,
2) I have divided up my upper deck in half,...one side will represent the LA area and source of container trains headed to the east coast (lower level), and the other half will be coal mines, timber, etc with freight cars that would have been pulled by steam engines. There will be a 'hidden track' behind the west coast scene so the old steam trains can pass over to the other half of the upper deck without having to pass in front of the Santa Fe station and the stacked containers/ docks/ships
 

flyboy2610

Loveably weird
#72
My debate centered around the fact that if I had the entire upper deck representing the west coast and primarily a source of container trains,...how was I going to get to run all my beautiful steam engines up there if i remained true to the idea that steam engines didn't pull container trains.
Oooh, yes, they do!
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#73
New Top Deck Track Plan


Trans-Continental Theme
I'm at the point now that my new layout plan has progressed significantly past the TL&F Junction plan, the one that originally inspired me. With that in mind I seriously considered starting a new subject thread titled “the Trans-Continental Connector, East meets West”, and proceeding with new postings and layout discussions under that title.

But there is so much material already contained in this subject thread that will have relevance with the new plan, I will just continue on this path for the moment.

My hopes that a more professional or inspired computer trackplan designer would come along and help me with ideas/images of alternative track plans for the 2 main decks of my layout,..... have been delayed again, …that gentleman tells me.maybe as much as another 6 months. So I hope to find another person.


So I had better get started on some new ideas myself. I sketched this up just recently for the very top deck
TOP DECK, Idea #1


I previously suggested that the bottom deck would represent Balt and east coast, and the top deck would represent LA and the west coast. Well that is NOT going to work. My debate centered around the fact that if I had the entire upper deck representing the west coast and primarily a source of container trains,...how was I going to get to run all my beautiful steam engines up there if I remained true to the idea that steam engines didn't pull container trains??

I think I will do 2 things, the second one most important,....
1) Like you I will run some container trains with steam engines,

2) I have divided up my upper deck in half,...one side will represent the LA area and source of container trains headed to the east coast (lower level), and the other half will be coal mines, timber, etc with freight cars that would have been pulled by steam engines. There will be a 'hidden track' behind the west coast scene so the good old steam trains can pass over to the other half of the upper deck without having to pass in front of the Santa Fe station and the stacked containers/ docks/ships.

That 'hidden track' is on the left had side in the dwg and likely accomplished with some sort of scenic blocker just tall enough to hide that steam train, and camouflaged by being painted with ships & cranes that blend in with the container yard.
The other mainlines and sidings out in front of of the Santa Fe station and the container yard will be for those diesel powered trains that are pulling long container trains or passenger trains. One of those 'sidings' out front should be reserved to hold a full consist of the infamous Santa Fe passenger train (I've got both the Walthers set and some nice MTH cars).

That inside corner (in front of the station) could well serve 2 functions.
1) A parking area for some of the nice Santa Fe diesels I have
2) A big fueling and sanding area for those diesels getting ready to make the trip east.
3) I had thought there might be a loco maintenance building somewhere here, but it would not be a good idea to cram it in here ,...how about down that side at the other end,...in an area of that 'continuous loop track'? There might even be some more extensive fuel oil tanks down there.??

Across the entrance-way bridge on the right had side of the layout is a fairly big piece of real estate that is open to suggestions.?
That right hand side will represent 'industries/scenes' from the middle of the country or the Appalachians. Some sort of coal mine is needed to fill up coal hauling trains and bring some to the steel mill. I just randomly placed that coal mine scene in there , but I like some of its trackage and non-liner design.

On this upper level I am proposing to put some logging tracks and trains down that peninsula. There might be a very tight loop at the free end of the peninsula for the short logging locos to run. Or it might be just a back and forth operation for them. They will bring logs out to the saw mill scene at the trunk end of the peninsula. I have the whole Walthers saw mill kit(s) and would like to make this scene some sort of transfer of logs to cut product that would be loaded onto mainline log cars and center-beam loaded cars, and a number of other wood carrying cars ( I have quite a variety).

Then to just throw a curved ball at the situation. I've actually thought that these two sides could be reversed? The upper deck on that left hand side is a little bit deeper than the one on the right.
 
Last edited:

beiland

Well-Known Member
#74
New Bottom Deck Track Plan

......just going to post the dwg this morning and I will add some text later this weekend. If you have been following this blog you will notice I changed the location of a number of 'scenes'

 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#75
Text added


Bottom Deck Track Plan





My latest 2 sketches for the bottom and top decks of my dbl deck layout plans has been an attempt to both;
1) Decide on what structures I will utilize on my layout ? ...(select from a LARGE selection of ones I have in storage)
2) Give them an area on the layout plan, so I can decide how they might fit, and how the deck/shelf plan needs to be configured to handle them.


I have been moving things around quite a bit....understatement :)...ha...ha

a) Steel Mill.
Most recently I moved my steel mill scene out of the upper right corner down to the lower left corner. It needed a little more room for some trackage, and access trackage. I think it has it now. That rolling mill as shown sits awfully close to the tracks, and that was done such that it could be cut down in length (shortened) if need be. The blast furnace might also be moved over just a bit to the left if another run around track for the hot metal cars was to be provided.



b) Waterfront.
I'll have several 'waterfront areas', but I had really been interested in finding a location for the scene I had purchased from an estate sale. I believe that latest placement in the right corner next to the entrance does it justice. I'll likely have to do a little trimming around the edges, but I can use those small structures in another spot, or attached to a different corner of this scene.



c) Brick Factory, Kilns
As shown on this dwg I first thought of putting it up in the right hand corner sitting on a mound that would cover one of the center peninsula tracks. I am seriously reconsidering that, and now placing it down behind my waterfront scene. I think it will fit in with the 'older architecture' of the waterfront scene now located there, and can be provided with access trackage in a better manner.



d) Refinery and Tank Farms
I now moved that from the lower left corner up to that upper right corner. The refinery(s) themselves will likely be located in the corners next to the backdrops themselves, and the multiple storage tanks will be distributed throughout the area, including to either side to mainlines feeding the helix (perhaps a multiple series of steel trust bridges for these mainlines?) the peninsula access track in that refinery area will not be covered by an earthen mound, but rather will pass thru the tank farm area.



e) Peninsula Access
I had been seeking several access tracks to the central peninsula, and that one on the right hand side can present an acceptable alternative. Plus it is long enough that a whole train can set in that 'passing track' waiting for its turn to enter the fray. Or it can operate in there while breaking down or reassembly to drop off cars for businesses in the central peninsula.

f) Stone Arch Bridge, Continuous Loop Trackage
There is a track feeding off the mainline on the upper right side over to a track on the left hand side. This track provides for a 'continuous loop' on the lower level such that the trains do not always have to climb the helix. It sits behind the turntable and in front of Balt city. I'm imagining it is a stone arch bridge sinilar to one I have already posted a photo of, and that was located just outside of Balt.
I have yet to find an acceptable way to join it into the mainlines on the left with a 'gentle grade'. So I am willing to put up with it have a big grade in a short distance, and thinking that in many cases the trains will be descending this grade.

g) Turntable
This structure has been moved back and forth across the layout plan on numerous occassions. I believe it has a good home now.


h) Coaling Tower and Steam Engine Servicing
I need to work on these details some more. The dwg is just a general placement, and thetracks are wrong.

i) Freight Yard
I had thought that the one side (left) of the freight yard would have several tracks for diesel engine fueling and sand, then several for engines in 'waiting' (display), and a two track maintenance building, with some short track storage out back??

j) Scrap Yard?
Perhaps a RR scrap yard in the lower left corner (old locos, frieght cars, etc)

k) Peninsula 'industries'
Several industries primarily centered around shipping ,....(stacked containers, lumber warehouse. coal, ) ???
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#76
Freight Yard Ladder Configuration?

I am struggling with a similar situation with my desire to but a small freight yard scene on the bottom deck of my new plan. Here is a quick sketch I did, and it has already been pointed out that I will likely NOT be able to fit that many spurs in there.



How many spurs is not that important to me, but of course I would like to maximize it.

I have seen the recommendations about a 2" spacing between tracks in a freight yard, but how does one achieve this? Do I assume it is done via the shortest length turnouts? I have Peco small radius streamline ones. Or would I consider the even shorter 'set track' Pecos?

And of course it seems very dependent of the angle that feeder track crosses the head of the ladder.

I'm totally a novice at this ladder system design, so I need help. I would like to utilize the Peco turnouts I have in possession, rather than buy new ones. But I'm not opposed to buying new ones. Basically I am using code 100 everywhere.

PS: If i needed to slant the diagonal ladder feed track even more to attain a tight spacing on the yard tracks, maybe I could move that diesel repair building (NOT the fueling/sanding facility) to an spot up above the ladder and into that blank spot behind the coaling tower??
 
#77
Freight Yard Ladder Configuration?

I am struggling with a similar situation with my desire to but a small freight yard scene on the bottom deck of my new plan. Here is a quick sketch I did, and it has already been pointed out that I will likely NOT be able to fit that many spurs in there.



How many spurs is not that important to me, but of course I would like to maximize it.

I have seen the recommendations about a 2" spacing between tracks in a freight yard, but how does one achieve this? Do I assume it is done via the shortest length turnouts? I have Peco small radius streamline ones. Or would I consider the even shorter 'set track' Pecos?

And of course it seems very dependent of the angle that feeder track crosses the head of the ladder.

I'm totally a novice at this ladder system design, so I need help. I would like to utilize the Peco turnouts I have in possession, rather than buy new ones. But I'm not opposed to buying new ones. Basically I am using code 100 everywhere.

PS: If i needed to slant the diagonal ladder feed track even more to attain a tight spacing on the yard tracks, maybe I could move that diesel repair building (NOT the fueling/sanding facility) to an spot up above the ladder and into that blank spot behind the coaling tower??
MicroEngineering makes a yard ladder system that keeps area usage to a minimum. However, in their wonderful business acumen, they only offer their rail works in code 83.
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#78
Freight Yard Ladder idea

Combo of paper templates and actual turnouts laid out on carpet. The edge of the rug is to represent the shed wall on that side of the room were the track close to wall is the track that feeds the helix down to staging. The next 2 tracks out are the mainline going into the helix structure the looping back out. So that's the 3 tracks on that side.







The ladder is a combo of the paper templates of Peco 'small radius' turnouts trimmed to fit as tight as possible together. These 4 turnouts would feed 4 flex tracks that would have straight and curves of no less than 22" to end up spaced 2"- 2.25" center to center spacing.

The very top of the ladder is a double-curved Peco 'set track' turnout that is connected to a 22" radius curve that enters the center peninsula area. It runs down the edge of the aisle towards the steel mill, and likely could have a couple of short spurs off of it.













That loop of track going over into the center peninsula are is made up of 22" radius curves, and the approx distance between the centerlines of the 2 most inner tracks of that loop is 40" (looping around the end of that 30' aisle on that side of the layout.

The height of that 'ladder' (from the top of the loop to the end of that turnout it connects to on the mainline) is approx 48". Those 2 overall area dimensions are pretty close to what I had original sketched out for that area.



Most of the 'switcher locos' and freight cars should be able to negotiate the minimum 22" curves??

Need to do some tweaking, but this looks promising??
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#79
CAUTION
HI Brian and all,

You should have no problems with 22" radius BUT..The curve path through a Peco set-track turnout is actually 17 1/4" radius. Most switcher locos should be able to go to 18" radius without modification See https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com...of_Klyzlrfiles/On30Loco_n_Car_Radius_pics.pdf ). Go much below 18" radius, then the mechanism might handle it down to about 15" radius, but coupler swing and end-throw at the end of the locomotive and the attached rolling stock will probably become the limiting factor of how tight you can go without having derailment problems.

I'd advise caution, and building a "plank type" test rig to test your locos and rolling stock through this curve combination before locking yourself in when you lay the track for real. You shouldn't have any problems, but you are sailing close to the edge of the "reliability envelope" here. If the knuckle couplings on your locos and rolling stock have limited swing or the coupler pockets are a long way outboard of your bogie pivots then you may be heading for trouble.

Regards,
John Garaty
 

beiland

Well-Known Member
#80
Peco SET TRACK dbl-curve turnouts

The SET TRACK from Peco is more of the 'entree level' track system than the STREAMLINE systems/tracks, As such it usually includes some smaller radius, tighter curve turnouts.

In their Code100 tracks they basically offer 2 double-curve turnouts,....a set track one and a streamline one.
1) The consensus of opinion puts the larger 'streamline' one at 30" inner radius and 60" outer radius.

2) The smaller 'set track' one is generally been quoted as 17 1/4" inner radius and 19 7/8" outer radius
Here is a little experiment I conduced this afternoon on those smaller radius set track ones,...




Here is a single one of those small dbl curves surrounded by a piece of 18" radius track on one side, and a 22" radius track on the other. These are going to be brought closer to the dbl-curve turnout in steps,...









That to me is a close enough fit to call that inner radius of the dbl-curve turnout an 18" curve

Now the 22" curve along the outer curve of the dbl-curve,...





Not quite as close of a fit, but likely in at least the 21" range,.....and I think that can work out in a 22" arc of trackwork.

A few photos of this dbl-curve laying over drawn out arcs,
















Bottom line, I'm feeling pretty comfortable placing this at the head of my yard ladder. In fact I may include two of them at the head of the ladder. (It was a real surprise to me that I had even one of these turnouts, let alone 4 lefts and 2 rights !!).

And another nice thing is it I have any derailments with these turnouts they are located right next to the aisle within easy reach.
 





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