How the hobby has changed!


In defense of the manufacturers, the originals are all long gone and the products they produced were becoming irrelevant, hence the plethora of bluebox and kits that still remain, on places like buy$sells and ebay (although they are thinning out there now). In their day, they filled a need, when people did not have the opportunity to jet around the world for a holiday in the masses that now do.. The instant gratification mentioned is that people no longer sit before the fire and listen to the radio, like they used to way back then. They have other things to do with their spare time. The 9-5 predictability of employment is also dead and buried. Wasted time is spent going from job to job. How many households could exist today without both partners having a job, or two?

The kit makers were the first to be affected by this change in the social ways. The manufacturers were faced with surviving or dying, along with the hobby. The RTR, extra highly detailed "stuff" was their answer to get new converts. I believe without that, all that would be left in the hobby would be a handful of diehards, gradually disappearing in numbers too. Don't knock us. We are what's keeping the whole concept going.
 
Toot,

Not knocking anybody! I just like to build things. When doing so, the world becomes calm and the people I dislike, fade from my memory. My heart rate settles down and things become right with the world, even here in the U.S.A. where politics is absolutely and totally bazaar of late! The stuff just mentioned is a fact for me. Simply put, it is also where my interest lie. Just simply buying a freight car an plopping it down on the railroad holds absolutely no interest for me! Yes, I am one of those Disappearing Diehards, who is stuck on destroying the hobby with my "I want to build it, myself" mentality! Thank heavens for people like you, "Toot" for saving the hobby and "Keeping the whole concept going!"

I have sons who are now the age I was when I started building my current iteration of model railroading. I am very impressed, they do work very hard! However, they seem to enjoy their free time playing video games and not in any other specific hobbies. My guess is most of the younger people are involved in much the same. I rather doubt the hobby will survive much beyond the lives of those of us who are currently involved. However, I don't claim to be very good at telling the future; but, I do think the extremely high prices of RTR equipment, will have more to do with the death of this hobby, than assembling model kits!
 
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I miss those times, about 15-25 years ago when Thanksgiving signaled the start of model railroad season for me and my Model RR friends. Most of us took off the Friday after. We'd meet at one of our layouts, drink coffee and just watch the trains going around on the mainline. My trains were generally coal drags creeping by at about 12mph, so it could take a while for 45 hoppers to go by. One friend has a CP Selkirk that would pull 30 or so refrigerator cars around and others would bring 'guest locos'. Whoever hosted usually provided lunch before we'd go back and mess around with our own layouts. A few buddies didn't have layouts but played RR videos instead. Sure miss those days.
 
Y3a: It sort of sounds like my informal club. We are slowly drifting apart and its getting harder and harder to have everyone together at the same time. I plan on doing a train meeting in maybe February, but us two dates, one on a Saturday and the other a Thursday night. Members could come to one or both dates.

Greg
 
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One thing for sure is that the hobby is definitely changing.

People joining the hobby are building layouts with the 2000 era in mind. A very few will dab in steam or ON30 and even the early diesel transition. So when I hear that the hobby is dying, it's not the hobby as much as the steam era. I'm 60 and personally I'm tired of seeing steam magazine, discussions, pictures etc, it's not my era. The same applies to all newcomers in this hobby.

Just look around, people do like to build buildings, not many will build freight. Lots of people are into weathering and now more and more are into electronics. Building DCC++ systems, Arduino, RasPI. Look at facebook, YouTube, GooglePlus, this hobby is really changing, diesel is taking over the steam. Steam will not totally disappear, because you'll always have the diehards steamers, but at one point, there won't be many steamers around.

The price, of course if you are to compare to the 1950's, the prices are very high, but put inflation into your calculations and the prices are about right. That's probably why, people are turning to electronics. You can buy a speedometer for about $100 or build one for $15, you can buy a control system for $300 or build one for $75.

As for clubs, there also changing. I've been to three different clubs and the atmosphere is old. They look at new comers like they don't know much, they've been their a long time so it's their way or the highway. To me, these are the people that make the hobby look like it's dying. But the new generation of clubs, which is basically everyone owning a layout get together at each others layout in a rotating matter. They help each other working on the layout and running operation sessions. Soon people will be running trains on each others layout while being at their own home via internet.

My 2 cents is yes the hobby is changing for the good and it's far from dying.
 
bnsf971 said:
25 years ago for DCC?
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That is only if one counts from when it became a standard. It existed at least 5 years before that in Lenz land (and of course longer in development land). I also believe it did take hold and become popular. "Marklin Digital" is DCC's origin as a collaboration of Marklin and Arnold. Lenz was only the electronic sub-contractor.

Imagine what we would be doing today if all the frivols law suits from MTH had not stymied DCC development for almost 5 years.
 
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Lloyd,

That is one of the problems with the hobby. Nowadays, it is being pushed by people who are incapable of appreciating what was and are only interested in what is, ie Steam V's Diesel, DC V's DCC and so on. When a particular thing (no matter what it is) is being pushed by the manufacturers then, sooner or later, that will be all anyone knows and; therefore, accepts as the norm.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it again, the hobby is being driven by business and not by passion and that is not a good change in my opinion. People still need to have options and for those options to be available. Remove the options and force people to go in one direction is neither a good change or good for the hobby.

I am one of those who also believes the hobby is dying. It would be interesting to see how many people were actively involved in it 50 years ago compared to 40 years compared to 30 and so on. I think you would see a decline in those numbers from decade to decade and I believe that decline will continue to the point of business regarding it as non entity and do away with everything.

Modern technology and improved engines etc are all great for the hobby, for those interested in it, but when there are no longer people interested, all of the technology is irrelevant and will gather dust some where. Of course there will always be a small handful of people still playing with trains, I doubt it will ever die off completely.
 
I have to disagree Tony.

I don't think anything is pushed or shoved by manufacturers, it's about demand.
When I started in this hobby, I made the decision based on my knowledge and what I liked, just like all new young comers. It's what they see and what we see today is diesel. Take Rapido, I bought the F9A and was waiting for the F9B, but they decided to not do it because the demand wasn't there. Just like in electronics, today's kids can build a system much cheaper and to their needs.

People are not forced, they have plenty of choices. Nothing stops anyone to model steam or DC if they want to, but if the demand is not there, companies will stop making them. The hobby can't be dying because people are not doing steam or DC. That part of the hobby could be dying, but the rest, to my knowledge is striving.

In 2030, maybe my 1970's era will be dying also and we will see flying trains or something, but I'm pretty sure the hobby in itself is not dying.
 
I think we're forgetting about about all those layouts hidden in basements, spare rooms and garages across the county. I have seen TrainFest's final attendance numbers, but I bet it will top 17,000 people. How many other train shows are there?

My next door neighbors have no idea that I'm a train nut....!

Thanks.

Greg
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
I have to disagree Tony.

I don't think anything is pushed or shoved by manufacturers, it's about demand.
When I started in this hobby, I made the decision based on my knowledge and what I liked, just like all new young comers. It's what they see and what we see today is diesel. Take Rapido, I bought the F9A and was waiting for the F9B, but they decided to not do it because the demand wasn't there. Just like in electronics, today's kids can build a system much cheaper and to their needs.

People are not forced, they have plenty of choices. Nothing stops anyone to model steam or DC if they want to, but if the demand is not there, companies will stop making them. The hobby can't be dying because people are not doing steam or DC. That part of the hobby could be dying, but the rest, to my knowledge is striving.

In 2030, maybe my 1970's era will be dying also and we will see flying trains or something, but I'm pretty sure the hobby in itself is not dying.
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Yupp-er. No market, no business. However, one should look at the entire hobby as a 'system'. There is inter-dependability between those who offer for sale and those who pony up the cash. Every type of fiddling has consequences somewhere else in the system. Some may be salutary, some not very much at all. There's a shifting dynamic where all the stakeholders negotiate, sometimes tacitly and implicitly, by not offering to purchase something for one reason or another. Those who import the products will soon learn what sells, and if they're smart, they'll try to understand why so that they don't repeat errors or make new, but similar, ones.
 
From my perspective, trains were when a child, a very big interest, I used to go, with my mother, to the railyards where the loco shed was right alongside a main road and there was access via a large hole in the wire fence. No-one ever bothered us as we wandered around and I took photos of the locos I liked and particularly of the bits I needed detailed views of so I could scale draw them at home. But Automobiles were, I guess my main driver (Ugh, a pun) because that was my main dream, getting to driving one. So, while making a loco, would have been great, I had no means to do so. No machine shop for me.

Cars have always been the thing I've worked on since my first, and still do. Trains, I need, and I stress that, must come RTR, otherwise I would not have come back into the hobby, Yes I could build a kit if so needed or desired for a particular item if one wasn't otherwise available and I could probably kitbash or even totally construct from scratch. What I really want to do is run them, I want to see them on a layout, I like the personal interactions at the club, having other trains being operated at the same time and interacting, even if that means waiting in a siding, is all part of what I reckon, is fun.

I give great, huge, massive Kudos to anyone who can scratchbuild, and create from a kit or manufactured model, a very accurate, extremely detailed representation of a prototype they want, and I highly respect them for their love of that part of the hobby, 110%.

What I don't like is the inference that my choice of the way I engage with the hobby, is somehow inferior or of lesser importance than theirs. Give me my kudos for being part of it, whatever way I want to do it. We often hear politicians claim their party encompasses a "broad church" of the population (that they usually often don't, doesn't seem to bother them from claiming it), but in my opinion (see, I can be just as biased) the model railroading/railwaying community fits that bill in the highest. We come from the highest to the lowest in our love of modelling and playing with our toys, so let's just rejoice in that, and be very, very, thankful, that we can, whatever way we want.

As far as the manufacturers of RTR, and all the other stuff that services everyone's individual interests, "Live long and prosper" even if I can't bend my fingers to suit.
 
Toot, that's why some of us take umbrage over the use of "serious" when it comes to the hobby. Some use the term to delineate their preferred or exalted status as a practitioner over the way others do it. If I'm a serious modeler, and elect to scratch build most of my items, and you don't, then you must not be very "serious" about engaging in the hobby. As you have rightly concluded, above, that inference is unwelcome.
 
In the Kit vs RTR thing, it is interesting how in the military/aviation scale modeling, kits are alive and kicking (and the only way to go in most cases).
 
Yannis said:
In the Kit vs RTR thing, it is interesting how in the military/aviation scale modeling, kits are alive and kicking (and the only way to go in most cases).
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We once had a diecast only shop here of all sorts. It had a large selection of model aircraft, up to 1/48 and even a couple of bigger ones. That shop is now gone, but there's another in the Mall that mostly has radio control stuff, but once had this very large DC4 Dakota diecast/plastic model. I used to drool over the beauty and detail of them. My memories as a child was of a few blocks of Balsa wood, which had to be handcarved into the shapes of fuselage, wings etc and glued and painted with that extremely strong smelling glue/paint. There were always examples done by master modelers in the show cases. Never got anywhere even remotely close to theirs. Was successful with a couple of the balsa frame, doped tissue paper, rubber band variety.
 
Selector said:
Toot, that's why some of us take umbrage over the use of "serious" when it comes to the hobby. Some use the term to delineate their preferred or exalted status as a practitioner over the way others do it. If I'm a serious modeler, and elect to scratch build most of my items, and you don't, then you must not be very "serious" about engaging in the hobby. As you have rightly concluded, above, that inference is unwelcome.
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It exists in all of these hobbies, in the custom car/hot rodder scene, there are many who consider, if you didn't build it yourself, had it done by professionals instead, you, along with your car, weren't "real'. As I mentioned, that's my other interest too, but I admire the work and finish that went into whatever it is, no matter who built. The owner is a lucky B#$$@r, who ever they are.
 
Selector said:
Toot, that's why some of us take umbrage over the use of "serious" when it comes to the hobby. Some use the term to delineate their preferred or exalted status as a practitioner over the way others do it. If I'm a serious modeler, and elect to scratch build most of my items, and you don't, then you must not be very "serious" about engaging in the hobby. As you have rightly concluded, above, that inference is unwelcome.
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Could't agree more. How we individually choose to build a layout and what we use is our choice. No one way is more correct than another, and no one approach and use of product makes one a more serious modeler than the another.
 
Hawkesburytrain said:
One thing for sure is that the hobby is definitely changing.

People joining the hobby are building layouts with the 2000 era in mind. A very few will dab in steam or ON30 and even the early diesel transition. So when I hear that the hobby is dying, it's not the hobby as much as the steam era. I'm 60 and personally I'm tired of seeing steam magazine, discussions, pictures etc, it's not my era. The same applies to all newcomers in this hobby.
Can I ask you to provide proof that what you say is true; or, at least show me where you've gotten your statistics from? I have been interested in obtaining statistic such as you mention; but, had no Idea where to obtain them and wonder if your views might not be slanted towards what you like, instead of what is real. Anybody else feel they can prove what has been stated here?

Oh, and by the way, I'm only 7 years older than you and I'm tired of seeing boring modern diesel layouts in the magazines, discussions, pictures. That's not my era! Are there newcomers to the hobby?
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Lloyd,

I rarely disagree with you however:

"...personally I'm tired of seeing steam magazine, discussions, pictures etc, it's not my era..."
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Those of us who prefer steam, or enjoy a combination of both, could say they were tired of everything being about diesel. Personally, I think there is a good supply and choice of steam engines to be had and I think that many people enjoy steam over diesel because it is different and not the every day norm.
 
NP2626 said:
Can I ask you to provide proof that what you say is true; or, at least show me where you've gotten your statistics from? I have been interested in obtaining statistic such as you mention; but, had no Idea where to obtain them and wonder if your views might not be slanted towards what you like, instead of what is real. Anybody else feel they can prove what has been stated here?

Oh, and by the way, I'm only 7 years older than you and I'm tired of seeing boring modern diesel layouts in the magazines, discussions, pictures. That's not my era! Are there newcomers to the hobby?
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The proof is with live interaction online and live in clubs. Sorry no statistic for you. You can join different Facebook groups which I've done (about 15-20 of them) and listen to what is being talked about or shown through pictures. This is just my opinion, but when I do see posts about steam era, it's mainly from people our age or older and clubs ran by older people. Today's era are posts from the younger generation with the latest diesel.

Sorry if I offended anyone by saying I was tired of steam. I've been subscribed to a few magazine in hoping to see ideas of the 70's era and I'd say that 60% of the articles are about steam. Most of the writers of these articles are our age. If they want to keep the hobby very alive, they would need to change their proportion.

OK Mark I got one stat for you, just to give you an idea of my Facebook feeds, 56 are diesel and 2 are steam. This was at 11:55PM tonight (15 minutes from my last check). The 2 steam are from older person and the 56 diesel are from people between 20 and 50 (ages are a guess as per their pictures). So going back to the original discussion, the hobby is changing and from what I see and hear, it's changing from steam to diesel. Also what I see and hear is that more and more younger people are joining the hobby (less than 60 years of age). That's why I say, it's not the hobby that is dying but more the steam era. In no way am I saying that steam will disappear, it will always exist, but less and less as older people pass away.

Tony, When I started in the hobby 3 years ago, I couldn't find CP steams for 2 years and I had people looking for me also. I finally will be getting my CP steam in 2018-2019 (Royal Hudson from Rapido).
 
Hawke,

Glad you were able to find your steam engine. Granted, some road names are hard to come by, there's little doubt about that.

You also made a valid point when you said:

"...Today's era are posts from the younger generation with the latest diesel..."
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Today's generation being the operative phrase there I think.
 
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