Do NOT rely on eBay FeedBack being HONEST!


A

arealgijoe

Member
I received 3 eBay emails this morning, all within mere minutes apart.

-1- 11:08 am, notification of complaint by seller (rockhead) the minitrix loco.

-2- 11:20am Notice from eBay they were investigating the complaint.

-3- 11:22 eBay sided with seller, informed me that I could NOT return the item because it was no longer in the condition received (I REPAIRED it).

The TRUE & honest NEG FB I left about the LIES in the listing by the seller was REMOVED!

This seller really knows how to make false claims in his listings, Defraud buyers & manipulate the system. I called eBay customer support and pointed out the problems was not the ITEM, but the FALSE claim that a loco with a disconnected motor ran when power was applied to the wheels. The seller changed his story from having test ran it on track, to no less than 3 tracks, and now to have held wires to the wheels , NO TRACK!

This seller has defrauded at least 2 or 3 other buyers just within a couple weeks time. I noted to eBay support that the issue I had was the FALSE, impossible claims buy the seller in his listings. I also pointed out that at least 2 others had the SAME issue (LIES) by the seller and that buyers RELY on the FB being reasonably honest. That if the FB system on eBay is not reasonably accurate (manipulated/ false) then ALL buyers are more vulnerable to deception and fraud and the eBay FB system becomes part of the problem, instead of the solution it was intended/promoted for.

I had NO opportunity to respond to the claim/case, and apparently they did not read any of the emails between me and the seller. I took a photo of the loco shortly after it arrived and I had taken the shell off to see if I could find WHY a loco I bought in full running condition did NOT run at all.

JD
 
You have discovered one of the ebay truths. They side with the seller (who is the one that they get their listing and final valuation fee from) and take his word for it in such cases without giving the buyer a chance to offer their side.

I had an instance recently where I was in negotiation with a seller and had sent an offer which he had accepted. Because it was some distance away, I said I wanted to pay by paypal. Next day I get a counter offer from him of my offer + $1. I thought, "what's going on?", so checked the listing, where it said "Withdrawn by seller, no longer available" No long after, comes a message from ebay that the seller has not accepted my counter offer of $---+1.00 and has withdrawn the item. The wise guys know how to work the system, ebay it seems is content to "investigate" very superficially.
 
I honestly can't believe that people STILL buy from evilbay. They have always been (essentially) corrupt, as per the OP's post, have only become worse and will continue to disregard any complaint against a seller (their means of income).

I don't want to make this a federal case; however, if you didn't receive what the seller claimed then that is out right "False Advertising". If the claims in the advert were false, misleading or deceptive and that was done for the sake of obtaining a financial benefit, that is straight out Fraud. Now, and obviously, no one will do anything about it as it isn't a "big enough" deal, and that is why this sort of BS continues.

In so far as "reviews/feedback" goes - anyone who relies on them is asking or problems to begin with, from any place. Most places "review" the left reviews and wont post/publish serious negative ones, and the ones that are published, in an attempt to show some form of credibility, are on the last page or so minor that they are almost irrelevant.

Toot'n,

Evilbay "investigate"??? They couldn't investigate a piss up in a brewery - nor can ANY company that is directly involved with a complaint.

Complaints such as what the OP has claimed SHOULD be investigated by "properly trained" people, independent of the business in question. Once upon a time, we used to call those "people" police.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have purchase just a few things from ebay. They were not expensive items and I could find them no where else.

So far I have been lucky.

But I would never use ebay until I had exhausted all other possibilities.

My two cents.
 
The very reason I stay away from them. My Dad was in the collectible biz way back, had a 4 digit seller number on there, ground floor. E-bay went sour very quickly, problems with buyers and worse with sellers, got so bad he quit dealing there, too much hassle. Too bad, it's a good idea, better off dealing direct with a known seller or better yet the guys on HERE! LOL!
 
ALWAYS look at ANY eBay sellers feedback rating. If it's less than 100%, read the feed backs for each item sold. From that you should be able to see if they are a good seller or not. For me anything under 99.9% is worth looking into.
 
cajon said:
ALWAYS look at ANY eBay sellers feedback rating. If it's less than 100%, read the feed backs for each item sold. From that you should be able to see if they are a good seller or not. For me anything under 99.9% is worth looking into.
Click to expand...

I think one of the things that the OP was saying was how unreliable those "ratings" are. What would the sellers, the OP dealt with, rating be if the OP's review had been published I wonder? Seems to me that if it ain't good - it don't appear!
 
So I deal with Ebay as a buyer 1-2 times a week (not an expert) but I have had attempts at getting ripped off, mislead, ect several times.

What I do to protect myself is this:
When I see a listing I like I print it, save the pictures to my computer, and analyze the seller, I really try to go for businesses or people that have sold more then a few items. I also look at the description if they take time to fully fill it out plus a vivid description I am more likely to buy.

Then after a couple days I might bid. When the auctions almost over I reprint the advert. If I win I pay right away soon as its over with PayPal.

I then print my receipts ect or save them in my email.

That way I can see if the advert changed and what was included with my purchase plus pictures of the item as they saw them.

Lastly after I receive my item I go over everything I have saved up and printed the day I get the package. If it doesn't match I make a case with Ebay and note in the comment sections that I have the original listing, pictures, ect and that I will provide them to prove that the seller is wrong. Ive had it happen 3 times of getting a piece of junk when it was listed as new or other and have always gotten all my money back and once I got a $15 ebay credit card.

So you got to cover your rear buns so they don't get burned.
 
wombat457 said:
I think one of the things that the OP was saying was how unreliable those "ratings" are. What would the sellers, the OP dealt with, rating be if the OP's review had been published I wonder? Seems to me that if it ain't good - it don't appear![/QUO

All a potential eBay buyer has to do is click on a seller's number of sales to the right of their handle. That shows ALL the feed backs that have been left by each buyer. There's no way to hide that. This should be done BEFORE buying anything from any eBay seller, i. e. "buyer beware".
Click to expand...
 
I just got a Chassis from Kato in Japan. Its being shipped to me from there but I use paypal. If i have a issue they will refund the money and they will get it right themselves or that is what i am hearing from them. I don't use Ebay much but when you can't find it anywhere else, and its listed as sealed new off the shelf i may have a good experience.
 
The SAGA continues...... A new $eller neg FB has appeared today, from yet another buyer. This seller tried to PLAY DUMB....(its an act). Another claimed good running loco busted and SMOKED when the buyerTRIEDto run it.

Sorry Andy, NOT accurate;
"All a potential eBay buyer has to do is click on a seller's number of sales to the right of their handle. That shows ALL the feed backs that have been left by each buyer. There's no way to hide that. This should be done BEFORE buying anything from any eBay seller, i. e. "buyer beware"."

NO! Clicking on the sellers (FB score) does NOT always show ALL feedback. What this $eller did was get eBay to COMPLETELY REMOVE my honest FB, that includes 1mo. 6mo & yr totals as well, PLUS his percentage goes up with the removal of MY true FB. I do this myself when checked whether to bid or not on a seller's item. eBay WANT's you to THINK you are seeing an honest, true & complete picture of the sellers integrity.


I just KNEW, ok strong feeling, that with the seller getting away with fraud/deception in my case, would lead to even more buyers getting stung by this ^^$^%$ I was RIGHT!

JD
 
eBay used to be a bunch of individuals selling stuff. Then businesses got in on the act, but they had a real problem with unreasonably pissed-off customers leaving malicious feedback, which in turn drove those businesses away. eBay has since realized that they MUST side with the seller in most cases and protect them in anything that has even a hint of a gray area, or they lose their major source of revenue. It's understandable, because customers can be the most unreasonable a**holes in the universe. You know that's true. They'll order a pewter cat figurine and then bitch because it wasn't gold plated. Seriously. The unfortunate side effect of this is that the creepy, sad, malicious individuals that still do business there are getting by with murder now because rules that were changed to protect honest business also apply to their sorry a**es. Bottom line: Don't buy from individuals on eBay unless you're willing to spin the roulette wheel. You can't trust them. Buy from the businesses that sell there for a cheaper price than Amazon because eBay charges lower fees. I have a number of established businesses that I buy from on eBay and never have any issue with them.

Having said that, I HAVE had eBay and Paypal back me and take care of me when sellers have been egregiously in the wrong. And I hate to say this, but yeah, it's a huge mistake to modify or repair something and then try to make a case. If it doesn't work, return it right then or just accept that it's worth the effort of fixing it. You can't do both, and rightfully so. How many customers do you think claimed to have "repaired" something only for the seller to eventually receive a mutilated mess that they just have to eat the cost of? The people at eBay are not model railroad experts and can't judge whether what you've done has improved or degraded the item. You KNOW there has been cases of somebody tearing around inside a locomotive and making it run, but breaking off half the detail parts in the process and then wanting to return it because it's now a mess. If you modify it, you've given away any right to recourse. And again I'll say, rightfully so. Sorry.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MikeOwnby said:
...customers can be the most unreasonable a**holes in the universe. You know that's true. ...
Click to expand...
Now there is a man who understands retail sales. You hit the nail on the head Mike!
Most consumers are fair and reasonable people, but a few are whackos!

In my opinion eBay is great. eBay has saved me hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

As a buyer I put little or no faith in sellers ratings. I read the listings and look at the pictures very carefully. If I am uncertain or the condition is not clearly stated I don't bid. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

As a seller I don't expect to make a profit, I point out any problems with the items, if any and I offer full refunds for any reason, no question asked. So far I have broke even plus or minus $5 or $10 and if I do lose money in the future I look at it this way; at least I got something for the items and they are no longer taking up space in my house.
 
What I did complain about was the DECEPTION by the seller. I did NOT ask to return it. I am NOT the only victim of this seller, several others in a period of a few weeks got burned by LIES of this seller.

What I did ask the seller for was a modest ADJUSTMENT on the price, because he LIED! There was no way he could have tested it (his claim in the listing) and it do anything with the motor NOT wired in. I tried saving about $12? by buying on eBay vs N scale supply. I had a similar loco, wood burner version, the fleabay loco was/is a oil burner. I knew the mechanism, under the boiler, and that it was easily converted to DCC.

My option as I knew them was to PAY return shipping and get a refund of the auction amount & original shipping. I tested the motor and drive gearing, both were fine and the loco was worth repairing. To return it meant I would have more expenses and NO loco. When the seller refused to make any adjustment, (and more impossible BS), I decided to close the case and keep the loco. That did NOT CHANGE the simple fact the seller LIED about its condition. IN my FB to him I noted the loco was not even wired up and could NOT have run.

There are several others that have been burned by this same seller, since I placed my first opening bid. One bought a set of 6 LIMA passenger cars, only to receive a collection of various lesser brand cars, note his auction had many pictures and one showed all 6 with LIMA branding on the bottom. Another bought a lot of freight cars claimed to be "new" only to get a junk box of mostly broken junk. A more recent buyer bought a Bachmann loco, the seller claimed he tested and it runs "Was tested and runs very well". The buyer posted in his feedback the loco drive train was busted and SMOKED when power was applied. He had a loco listed as a "KATO" that was clearly marked on the bottom with as a life-like (cheapo at that).

I was luckier than some of his other buyers, mine was completely DOA, but easily repaired.
 
The only hope with this seller is that all the negative feedback he is getting/will get, is that ebay will eventually take notice. Problem is, ebay expects the buyer to try to sort it out with the seller first, before posting negative feedback and before getting them involved. But as Mike has said, once you alter or fix the item, your case is out the window, because, as in your case, you made it run, so the sellers claim that it did in the listing can't be disproven.
 
arealgijoe said:
What I did complain about was the DECEPTION by the seller. I did NOT ask to return it. I am NOT the only victim of this seller, several others in a period of a few weeks got burned by LIES of this seller.

What I did ask the seller for was a modest ADJUSTMENT on the price, because he LIED! There was no way he could have tested it (his claim in the listing) and it do anything with the motor NOT wired in. I tried saving about $12? by buying on eBay vs N scale supply. I had a similar loco, wood burner version, the fleabay loco was/is a oil burner. I knew the mechanism, under the boiler, and that it was easily converted to DCC.

My option as I knew them was to PAY return shipping and get a refund of the auction amount & original shipping. I tested the motor and drive gearing, both were fine and the loco was worth repairing. To return it meant I would have more expenses and NO loco. When the seller refused to make any adjustment, (and more impossible BS), I decided to close the case and keep the loco. That did NOT CHANGE the simple fact the seller LIED about its condition. IN my FB to him I noted the loco was not even wired up and could NOT have run.

There are several others that have been burned by this same seller, since I placed my first opening bid. One bought a set of 6 LIMA passenger cars, only to receive a collection of various lesser brand cars, note his auction had many pictures and one showed all 6 with LIMA branding on the bottom. Another bought a lot of freight cars claimed to be "new" only to get a junk box of mostly broken junk. A more recent buyer bought a Bachmann loco, the seller claimed he tested and it runs "Was tested and runs very well". The buyer posted in his feedback the loco drive train was busted and SMOKED when power was applied. He had a loco listed as a "KATO" that was clearly marked on the bottom with as a life-like (cheapo at that).

I was luckier than some of his other buyers, mine was completely DOA, but easily repaired.
Click to expand...

Again, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. If you'd approached the seller BEFORE you repaired it and requested an adjustment, then you'd have a stronger case. Once you repaired it, you just don't. As for return shipping, I've had eBay pay for the return shipping when an item is damaged in shipping or is obviously and egregiously not in the condition the seller stated. They will take care of you when a seller is in the wrong. But you MUST make your case BEFORE you modify ANYTHING. Ultimately, though, partial refunds are not something you're even entitled to. If the seller simply offers a return, that's your only option. You should also be able to see that from eBay's standpoint, you basically left negative feedback because the seller wouldn't give you said money back when, again, you COULD have just returned it in the end if nothing else. You DID have recourse, you just chose not to take it, and therefore the negative feedback couldn't be justified. If you'd returned it and then left negative feedback about the condition of the item, no problem. If you'd never requested a partial refund and left negative feedback, no problem. But FROM THEIR STANDPOINT, what you want is to keep an item that you're obviously now satisfied with owning and then still wanting to punish the seller because he didn't agree to whatever terms you wanted. Because you did that, it falls under their definition of feedback punishment or extortion and they'll remove the negative feedback every time. Surely you can understand why.

I'm also not trying to say that this seller isn't dishonest and a jerk. I'm sure they are. From what you describe, in fact, I KNOW they are. But you also have to be smart about what you do and how you handle the case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
arealgijoe said:
I had NO opportunity to respond to the claim/case, and apparently they did not read any of the emails between me and the seller. I took a photo of the loco shortly after it arrived and I had taken the shell off to see if I could find WHY a loco I bought in full running condition did NOT run at all.

JD
Click to expand...

JD,

I'm not defending the seller here, or your claim that eBay's feedback is really inaccurate, but try reversing the situation........

If you had sold a locomotive on eBay, and after the buyer receives it he then sends you an email with a photo of the locomotive pulled apart, and him claiming that it does not run, what would you do?? Offer a full refund no questions asked??

What do you think that Kato, Atlas, Bachman, Model Power etc would do if it was a new locomotive that you had bought, and you emailed them a photo with the locomotive disassembled, requesting a partial refund claiming that it didn't work??

It seems to me that the main contributing factor behind the feedback being removed was that when you disassembled the locomotive, you could no longer return it in the condition in which it was received (i.e. not working)..

May I suggest to you that a better solution may have been to not make it known to the seller that you disassembled the locomotive, and in doing so, that you were aware of why the locomotive did not run, but instead to just claim that it was "significantly not as described" i.e. not working, and claim a partial refund for that reason alone..

Now I'm primarily a buyer only on eBay, and yes I have seen my share of shady sellers, but I have friends who are sellers on eBay, and believe me there are quite a few shady buyers on there as well.. From simple claims of items not working just to get a small refund, to good parts being removed and replaced by broken/worn pieces, or just simply returning a completely different item and keeping the working one that was received..

Personally what annoys me with eBay is that a seller can block a buyer, but a buyer cannot block a seller... That means that whenever we are unfortunate enough to find one of these "bad" sellers, we have to remember his eBay name so that we don't have the displeasure of dealing with them again...
 
"Personally what annoys me with eBay is that a seller can block a buyer, but a buyer cannot block a seller... That means that whenever we are unfortunate enough to find one of these "bad" sellers, we have to remember his eBay name so that we don't have the displeasure of dealing with them again..."

I agree 100%!

"May I suggest to you that a better solution may have been to not make it known to the seller that you disassembled the locomotive, and in doing so, that you were aware of why the locomotive did not run, but instead to just claim that it was "significantly not as described" i.e. not working, and claim a partial refund for that reason alone.."

I agree with your point, however I am accustomed to being honest and up-front, ie being fully truthful. I also make allowances for honest mistakes, they happen and can to anyone. This was a clear cut case of lies by the seller in his listing. Like I said I was LUCKY as several of his other buyer have been deceived and burned far worse. I wonder how may customers this seller can cheat and eBay allow it to continue???

Yes! there are bad buyers as well. A few years ago I sold a Minolta film scanner to a a Corp exec in Chicago. She wanted it to digitized old family photos as a Christmas present. It left here in pristine condition. When she finished her family photo project she demanded to return it. I took it back, but it was a MESS! Crud of some unknown kind all over the case and I could not clean it up and had to throw away what was a GOOD scanner, PLUS pay for her return shipping.

Also a few years ago I sold a nice expensive B&L microscope. It was in excellent working condition and worth several times what it went for on eBay. The buyer complained about it not working properly and demanded a partial refund to cover the cost of NEW eyepieces, he claimed he needed to make it useable. I KNEW it had a very good set of eye-pieces, so I did a little eGUM-SHOEing. I found him BRAGGING (on a Google site) boasting about how great his newly purchased microscope (the one I sold him) was and how he was using it productively in his business (with the microscope as shipped). I contacted Google about his using MY copyrighted eBay photo (I always take my own photos of the actual item) and they made him REMOVE MY photo from his site. I also used his claims on his Google business site to shoot down his claim of it being defective. In short, his loose lips, sunk his own ship.

I mostly quit selling on eBay after those two episodes. I do sell an item once in a while on eBay but often tend to give something away to a friend or to charity instead dealing with eBay. Most of what I do get on eBay is from established business that also have a store/business. (not just an eBay store).
 
You know, while I some what sympathize with the OP (as a result of his experience) there are so many complaints and so forth on the internet about evilbay, I truly don't understand why people even bother to take the risk buying from them.

Tell me this ... people say evilbay is cheap - rubbish, not when you add up the risk, the initial cost as well as shipping. Personally, I'd rather pay a few more dollars and KNOW I am going to get what I ordered as well as final price BEFORE committing, and know (with very few exceptions) that if something is wrong with the purchase I can return it without having to go through the Spanish Inquisition than buy anything from evilbay.

Now, IF you know the seller, ie people from here, then that could be a different matter - even so, and in my opinion, if you have something to sell - advertise it as an independent seller and deal perspective buyers one on one without the other BS.
 
Yet ANOTHER buyer's NEG FB bites the dust. Just for the heck of it, I checked his FB, rockheadm1947, and he also got the Neg FB on a BN loco that did not run (claimed it ran well) either removed. his seller is no dummy, he an experienced con artist and KNOWS how to play eBay scams.

I got curious & started watching this A-hole after I got conned. yesterday I started making copies of his unfavorable FBs complete with links. While I take no joy or pleasure at people being scammed, it is as interesting as any soap opera to watch his NEG FBs vanish, (after reading other buyers comments)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top