DCC my new adventure

[Iron Horseman]

found a Super Chief Xtra Duplex Radio Equipped starter set new and could not resist the 1/2 price offer. I just set it up and programed my first loco address...I know not a big step but one of many to come. Lots of reading to do. CV's are still a little bit of a mystery.

In this day and age, 99% of the time a normal person does not need to worry about DCC decoder CVs. that is for fine tuning and customizations. I seldom access CVs. Following the directions on the controller and it will make the translation from what you want it to do into CVs automatically. In programming that loco address you changed CVs 39, 14, 15, and probably few others. It is unnecessary knowledge. Just like typing on the computer you don't need to know that the Intel processor had to load the storage address an set a base register in order to enable the screen memory buffer.

pros and cons of which direction the speaker should face ???.

Speaker placement is more an art than a science. While there is tons of engineering techno babble that can be applied it usually boils down to your ears. Upward firing speakers will generally produce a louder sound that is more directional. That is your ears will be able to localize it better. Downward firing your ears don't hear the sound directly but bounced off the track. It is harder to tell the sound is coming from the tender rather than the loco. Generally one can fit a larger downward firing speaker into the same amount of space in a tender as long as it is not a Vandy. Vanderbilt tenders usually always have to be upward firing. I've had luck and failure with both types.

I guess I would say try not to burn any bridges while mounting the speaker. That is, if you make it downward firing don't cut a hole that is so huge and gaping that it can't be covered back over with a sheet of styrene. Nor would one want to make a hole in the coal that could not be easily recovered for an upward firing one.

 

[blackz28]

Doc u need a section of track that is isolated that you use as a programming track
most guys just have a toggle switch to isolate the power,if you dont isolate the track when you go to for example
program in your cab#it will program all ur DCC locos to that c a b #

 

[Doc]

Ah DCC

Greetings All, Thank you for the OK on the Digitrax purchase. I didn't want to spend $'s on lots of upgrades. And I think I will like the "R" factor.

I have set up two programming tracks, one on the work bench and one on a siding rail with a power on/off switch. Although I think at this point I'll most likely do most of the work on the bench. ??? Is there a max length to the programing wires ???, My layout is about 15 feet from the bench programming track.

Hi I.H. thanks for the speaker placement information. I like the thought of the down firing sound so that is localized to the Steamer area and not the tender but as you relate it is an effort in Sound Art. I do have several 2-10-2 with the Vandy tender, its roundness was giving me pause. I have seen several different modifications for tenders up and down fired. I think I'll go slow and make sure that I can recover from any Dremel work. The BL 2-10-2 has 2 down firing round non ported speakers with the bottom of the tender being completely slotted. It does have a nice sound that not so localized. I have read a little about sealed and ported speakers and ones that are not. Like the old days JBL, Haffler, EPS, Infinity and on and on. If you have had success with a speaker or enclosure type please let me know. Regarding the CV's is see let the bit bucket do its thing. Although I would like to have the engine not wake up with sound until I "Function 0" or some function #, after I have called its address. Humm I wonder if that even made sense? Well for now I have some wiring to do in the tender of the 4-6-2 as I have finished the loco and would like to test today. Once again Thank You all for helping me. Doc'

 

[Iron Horseman]

I have read a little about sealed and ported speakers and ones that are not. Like the old days JBL, Haffler, EPS, Infinity and on and on.

Advent Series 1. I got a set of 4 (quadraphonic) in 1980 and when they started wearing out I went looking for something new. I have not been able to find anything close, had to rebuild them. Some of the Klipsch towers were close, but no cigar. Got a set of BOSE and overall they suck. Their only benefit is is sound per size. I have been able to study the technology for model trains.

If you have had success with a speaker or enclosure type please let me know.

The BOSE lead to the design below for a dummy B unit. It has 11.75 inches of channels in it.

It started by just adjusting the area of the enclosure by sliding the pipe in and out of the coupling. Theoretically the ideal area of the air chamber needs to be 1 plus a multiple of 0.5 of the surface area of the speaker cone. So a square speaker of 1" would need an air chamber of 1 cubic inches, 1.5 ci, or 2 ci, etc. A 1" round speaker would be 0.786 cubic inches, 1.179 ci, or 1.572 ci, etc. What I discovered is that a mathematically "perfect" design isn't always best because in tiny speakers we want to enhance the bass and minimize the ultra-high frequencies. Plus humans ears are not mathematically perfect. So I was able to move the pipe back and forth until I found the "tone" I wanted for a given decoder sound track.

I also did the same thing with a "non-enclosure" pipe, the rear was not sealed. The sound I liked was with about a 15" pipe. Way to long for any HO loco. So I thought, like the BOSE, fold that length back and forth to make the chamber longer in the same amount of space. Ta da. I assume I could still do much better if I made the length of each fold at a precise distance equal to a multiple of the frequency being enhanced. However there is has to be a echo or reflection factor where sound gets bounced straight backward down the chamber it just came from instead of going around the corner. I can't hear it but it has to be there. Internal round corners would be better but have no idea how to tackle either of those issues.

I've tired various ports, base reflex design, chambered, multi-speaker, etc. What I really need is a good tool to measure sound instead of just my ears. One can only listen to subtle differences in locomotive prime mover sound tracks for so long before the ear is numb. Plus the volume (the Loudness filter effect) is so pronounced it is hard to judge from day to day. What sounded really good yesterday seems a bit off today.

And P.S. That speaker was so difficult to do I have not repeated it. I have stuck with the simple adjustable single chamber.

I would like to have the engine not wake up with sound until I "Function 0" or some function #, after I have called its address.

Hmm, most of the locomotives that I have are silent when they are powered up. The sound only comes on when a throttle has selected the channel number of that loco, but it does come on immediately when its address is called up.

 

[Doc]

The depth of sound

Golden eared lots of Advents in the past, they were sweet, I had Dahlqust DQ10s subed for some time and then settled on Epicure Towers. They now have the T531 & T631 might be worth a listen at your local shop.
Wow !, you have sure spent time dialing in the sound quality, this hobby knows no limits does it. I like the folded horn thought and wonder if an oval or rounded rectangle tube that was folded to needed length of the driver might work. Close by here is a company that is doing lots of work with 3D printing and they might have some view as to how to print the port. I have been looking at railmasterhobbies.com for speakers that would conform to " enhance the base and minimize the ultra-high frequencies ". At last check my ears roll off at about 12k so what is above that is for the cat. rmhobbies listed some freq response for several of their drivers and there was one DHB27-8 that ranged down to 170 hz and has some sort of enclosure. The DHB20 thru 28mm might fit as well although they don't list the response range.

Regarding the loco wake up sound thing I was trying to relate, yep I need to just spend time with the DCC and stop being in a hurry, as the only time the sound is initiated IS when the engine is addressed. I was confusing the DC operation. Thanks again for sharing your efforts with the speakers and enclosures and pictures. Humm, Bose might be looking for you. New product line...... six figures would be best.
Once again........ Best Regards Doc'

 

[Iron Horseman]

I had Dahlqust DQ10s subed for some time and then settled on Epicure Towers. They now have the T531 & T631 might be worth a listen at your local shop.

Dahlqust, heard of the brand never got to listen to any. Epicure, now there is a name I've not heard in about 3 decades. I didn't know they were still in business.

Close by here is a company that is doing lots of work with 3D printing and they might have some view as to how to print the port.

Now that is a really really good idea. I could engineer exactly to shape, diameter, length, and precision ports. Just pop in speaker X and we are off.

rmhobbies listed some freq response for several of their drivers and there was one DHB27-8 that ranged down to 170 hz and has some sort of enclosure.

Wow, that is good and low for a small speaker. Might have to pick up some of those. Almost into sub-woofer range there..... But the problem is also on the other end of the wire. Until the Tsunami and the Phoenix Sound units, the decoders didn't produce any signals lower than 500Hz just because they knew there were no 1" speakers that would be able to re-produce them. So it was pointless to try to work in that range.

 

[Doc]

It works

I think I will run down 3dsystems here in Rock Hill and have a chat. See what they need in the way of file format and who knows... I have vector editing software here that could be of some use.. Hummm. Yea on the Rivarossi 4-6-2 conversion to DDC. Woke up alive and runs great...I do see the need for 5 pole at slow speeds as the old 3 pole has definite limits. I must say so far the Digitrax is a WOW. I spend hours going through everything the books have to say. Opps I'm even reviewing the overall CV settings and the most important one so far is cv8. I finished the install so the layout is now all DDC. It will sure let you know where there is a weak track connection or a turn out that is in need of help. Thanks again for all the help.
Doc'

 

[Nucular]

At this point I have narrowed the Starter Set down to these two. NCE Power House Pro ( #524001 ) and the Digitrax Super Chief Extr 5 amp. I see that the costs are close, NCE just a little more with the addition of the AC power supply. In addition they both work with the Tsunami decoders. I'm still not real clear on the Programing modes although the programing track questions have been answered through the respective manuals. If you have a thought please advise. Once again thanks.
Doc'

Not sure if I am too late in this response or not. I would skip the old fashion transformer idea/set up and go directly with computer integration using JMRI. I am in the process of converting my entire setup to this type of configuration. Today with touch screen computers, and being able to bring up as many throttles as you like all on one device, makes it much nicer and is much less clutter. If you go even further and divide your layout into blocks/isolated power districts, you can set up the computer to run your entire layout for you.

 

[Doc]

Thanks for the " Try This One "

Hi Nucular, I have already purchased a Digitrax Super Chief Xtra Radio throttle starter system. Well I think for now I'm going to have to cut my teeth on this system and as we all know the future is only $'s away. Thanks for the info on the JMRI as I'm always in learn mode.
Best Regards
Doc'