China Tariffs

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NP2626

Well-Known Member
#1
The Tariff War with China certainly will not be good for this hobby! However, i wonder if Atlas and some of the older manufacturers will start-up production here in the United States, Again?
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
#2
Gotta buy now before they effect the prices.
I don't think they will stay there for long though. Remember, China is basing their demands on retaining the right to ignor copyrights and confiscating production tooling.
 

Espeefan

Well-Known Member
#4
You guys willing to pay double? I remember posting some pics of a Wally RPO Baggage that listed of like $85 and I got several comments about how that was too expensive. The car would cost a lot more if it were made here. Costs here would be high, and most of the manufacturing facilities we used to have aren't there any more. If this tarriff nonsense goes the way I think it will, how much your trains stuff costs you will be the least of your worries!
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
#5
I'm inclined to think China has been doing this trade shenanigans to other countries as well and has been getting away with it. I think that once the US gets China to play fair with us, other countries are going to pull their plug on China as well. China sees the handwriting on the wall and doesn't want that to happen because it will mean the end to the free money they have been raking in.
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
#6
You guys willing to pay double? I remember posting some pics of a Wally RPO Baggage that listed of like $85 and I got several comments about how that was too expensive. The car would cost a lot more if it were made here. Costs here would be high, and most of the manufacturing facilities we used to have aren't there any more. If this tarriff nonsense goes the way I think it will, how much your trains stuff costs you will be the least of your worries!
I really don't think the price of goods will double, but on the other hand, buying products that were developed by one person at their expense but produced by China by copywrite theft just isn't right.
I think the real question is: are we willing to pay a fair price for the things we want?
 

Espeefan

Well-Known Member
#7
I really don't think the price of goods will double, but on the other hand, buying products that were developed by one person at their expense but produced by China by copywrite theft just isn't right.
I think the real question is: are we willing to pay a fair price for the things we want?
I agree that theft of IP needs to be addressed, but tariffs aren't going to do that. They'll just slap them on us in a "tit for tat" move and both our imports and exports will shrink. As for paying a fair price for the things we want? Well, that's what I call a "Multi beer discussion". The fact is, as a country we all talk about American jobs and how important they are, but our actions say we don't want to give up our cheap Chinese crap. Go check out any Wal Mart. Fact is that cheap Chinese crap has offset stagnant wages to quite an extent, and if it goes away lots of folks just making ends meet are going to find themselves in a pickle, not to mention the market share we will lose to other producers around the world.
 

Greg@mnrr

Section Hand
#8
D&J is correct in what he stated about the effects of the higher or new tariffs. If the cost to produce an item in China is $35, with a 25% tariff the actual cost to the importer rises to $43.75 in which the added $8.75 will be passed along to the customer. So with markups for transportation, shipping, marketing and middle man suppliers what was once a $200 locomotive is now $208.75, if no one inflates the original production and tariff costs.

The important issue is the the Chinese theft of intellectual knowledge, tooling and the sale of products once destined to the US to other countries. We are the R&D department for Chinese produced goods at US expense.

What I worry about is the lack of machine tooling, steel production, electronics and other industries virtual to the defense of the US in the event of a major conflict. Gone are the factories and production facilities once so common in the 1940's. Milwaukee was once the "Tool Box" of America with all the machine industries once in Milwaukee and are now gone. The US is losing its Industrial Strength.

I'm not losing any sleep over this issue as it relates to model railroading. Look at Rapido and with their production I believe in Canada and they offer quality products at prices comparable to other imports. Look at PECO and the cost of their products. I may venture to say that we may see importers switch from Chinese products to products manufactured in other developing counties and re-start the cycle all over.

In the early 1990's I wanted to buy American and we needed a new vehicle for my wife so we decided on a Dodge Intrepid believing it was American made. In the glove box I found papers that it was manufactured and assembled in Canada with essential all Canada parts. Now ahead to 2014 and my new Chevrolet Silverado pick up truck has many parts produced in Mexico.

Tariffs will only cost the US consumers more for Chinese produced goods and not address the other issues at hand.

Maybe model railroading will back track to the days of the BB kits to reduce costs???

Greg
 
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Espeefan

Well-Known Member
#9
You might want to check your math Greg. With a 25% tariff a $200 loco will now be $250, plus any added costs of compliance with any new regulations or paperwork. My point was that to move production here you’ll have higher labor costs, plant setup, (those long gone production facilities we both mentioned) and so forth. All of those costs will get rolled into the sell price of any product made here. The cost may not double but the increase will be significant. “Tarriffs will only cost US consumers more and not address the issues at hand”. Amen!
 

tankist

Active Member
#10
One thing for sure, China got way out of hand with IP theft and currency manipulation. Sure trade war will be less then best for everyone and I do wish prosperity to Chinese people but someone at our playground needs to teach them that cheating is bad. it's way overdue
 

cv_acr

Active Member
#11
You might want to check your math Greg. With a 25% tariff a $200 loco will now be $250, plus any added costs of compliance with any new regulations or paperwork. My point was that to move production here you’ll have higher labor costs, plant setup, (those long gone production facilities we both mentioned) and so forth. All of those costs will get rolled into the sell price of any product made here. The cost may not double but the increase will be significant. “Tarriffs will only cost US consumers more and not address the issues at hand”. Amen!
No, because the full retail price of $200 includes shipping and other retailer level markups *after* the item has been imported. The import tariff will be borne on the wholesale cost to the manufacturer/distributor (*before* those markups) not the consumer's retail price. So it won't be on the $200.
 
#12
Espeefan: I used the production cost of $35.00 for a Chinese product with a 25% tariff, not the final cost of the product. But...there was an error in the calculation of the tariff at $8.50 which should of been $8.75.

Have to throw away that darn Chinese calculator!!!

Greg
 

cv_acr

Active Member
#13
In the early 1990's I wanted to buy American and we needed a new vehicle for my wife so we decided on a Dodge Intrepid believing it was American made. In the glove box I found papers that it was manufactured and assembled in Canada with essential all Canada parts. Now ahead to 2014 and my new Chevrolet Silverado pick up truck has many parts produced in Mexico.
Meanwhile a lot of "import" models from companies like Toyota are actually built domestically in the US/Canada.
 
#15
I wonder what the effect of mass 3-D printing may have on the production of model locomotive shells and the reduction of production costs.
 

Espeefan

Well-Known Member
#16
Espeefan: I used the production cost of $35.00 for a Chinese product with a 25% tariff, not the final cost of the product. But...there was an error in the calculation of the tariff at $8.50 which should of been $8.75.

Have to throw away that darn Chinese calculator!!!

Greg
Yeah, but then you added the 8.75 to the $200 . Chinese calculation LOL!
No, because the full retail price of $200 includes shipping and other retailer level markups *after* the item has been imported. The import tariff will be borne on the wholesale cost to the manufacturer/distributor (*before* those markups) not the consumer's retail price. So it won't be on the $200.
are you sure? I’m not sure how this will work. Maybe we say it will be less than $50 but more than $8.75
 

D&J RailRoad

Professor of HO
#17
As with any other problem the United States had to face in the past, this issue of dealing with China will be put to rest as well. This country has always been able to compete well on a level playing field and even on a lopsided field at that. We will weather this tariff issue at it will soon disappear in the rear view mirror of history. As for model trains, this is a minor slow order on our right of way that will soon be forgotten.
 

NP2626

Well-Known Member
#18
Even though I am less than enthusiastic about the current president, something has to be done about China's modus operandi! Their stealing of intellectual property and then attempting to sell it back to those who they stole it from, needs to stop! Whether the actions taken by the president will have the desired effects, remains to be seen. However, I'm wishing him (and us) good luck! There truly is a World Economy, for it to be successful, every player needs to play fairly!
 
#19
This will affect everybody where lots of goods are made in China .. The pitfall of world trade . Here in Australia I simply cannot afford to buy from the U.S. directly . Our dollar is now only worth about 70 U.S cents . If prices climb in the U.S. so will they everywhere in one way or another.
Not good for the hobby but more importantly not good for consumers in general of course .
For all sorts of reasons I hope the tariff war will get sorted soon . Egotistical politicians on all sides driving this ...
 

autocoach

Active Member
#20
Wonder about the position of Rapido. No Tariff increase between China and Canada. A little bit of upset between Canada and China over detention of Huawei VP for the US. How would tariff on Rapido model railroad stuff made in China but shipped to US from Canada be applied? Similar problem with some Hornby items made in China but shipped to English retailer I buy from as a consumer. At least you don't have to worry about Peco track products as they are still made in England ( I've stopped using UK as they are not liable to be united that much longer.)
 



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