Bachmann Track Nightmares.


Nightwing

Member
Hello all! First time poster here. I will give a brief rundown on what I have. I built a 4X8 setup using a 2" hard foam base set into a wooden frame with stringers underneath to give the foam support. It was set up square and level.

I have a double circuit using two turnouts and a 30° crossing which allows travel around the outer loop or in and out using the turnouts and crossing.

The layout is built from Bachmann gray bed NS HO track. I intend to set the scenery up in late 1800's/early 1900's, so diesel power (of which I have 3) will not be utilized. I also have a second track, inside the larger one, a simple oval with two turnouts to produce a circle within that track.

I have a Bachmann 060 loco and tender for the larger route and a Life-Like 040 dockside switcher for the inner route. That loco pulls short freight cars with a bobber caboose. The Bachmann loco pulls period passenger cars.

Below is a copy and paste of my post on the Bachmann Forum. I got little support, so I came here.


There is definitely a problem with the BAC44540 30° crossing. I am running an 060 locomotive that doesn't like that
crossing. I was experiencing derailing and hesitation and poor performance of the loco going over that section of track. I discovered that the loco was rubbing its belly on the crossing. I had to file down the part of the bellypan that covers the driven gear. That problem was solved. However there is still a hesitation and loss of power on one leg of the crossing. The other leg isn't a problem. I have to run the train at a much higher speed than prudent or scale proportions in order to prevent the loco from stopping dead. Even at higher speeds, there is a noticeable jerk of the locomotive that often causes the rolling stock to uncouple which will lead to a train wreck if not caught in time. I have lightly fine sanded the troublesome area with a little improvement. It is unknown why one leg of the cross is trouble free and smooth, while the other leg will not maintain power to the locomotive.

This is certainly a Bachmann problem and I have contacted them without a reply. If in fact it is just the nature of the beast that short locomotives will not perform well if using this crossover, then a disclaimer should be on the package.
My entire layout depends on using this crossover and it is a very important item to me. I am open to suggestions.


Now, here is a post I also made about turnout problems:

I have been fighting problems with my 30° crossing and now I have something worse. My layout had EZ track manual turnouts and I never had an issue with them. I upgraded the two furthest turnouts to powered units. Since then, my 060 locomotive stumbles or jumps the track. Staying on the straight run is smooth, but switching to the curved turnout is when the problem occurs.

There doesn't seem to be much tension on the switch points against the rails, certainly not as much as the manual units. I can run an F7 diesel loco through there all day long without a hiccup, but my little steamer doesn't fare well. I would like to leave the diesels on the display shelf because my entire layout is turn of the century themed.

Now, I have researched this issue and many people have suggested filing the points thinner and sloped down at the tip.
I have done that to some extent on one of the two powered turnouts. I have also beefed up the shifting wire inside the switchbox to give a little more tension of the points against the rails. My layout has two powered turnouts and four manual turnouts. The manual turnouts give no problem and didn't have an issue other than the crossing problem. As soon as I installed the powered turnouts the problems began. I can run a diesel at any speed and do lap after lap after lap of no problems. Pull the diesel and replace it with the 060 steamer and BANG! Derail.

If I reverse the direction of the loco, the problem moves to the other switch as the loco heads into the points for a curve. If I leave both switches on straight, there isn't a problem. At this point, I am probably going to swap the switches out with the manuals I had before. Pain in the butt because they are both on the back of the layout.


I am worn out from fighting this switch problem. I want to begin landscaping and structures but not until the track is operable. Thanks for reading. Looks like you have a great forum here with lots of active members and ideas.




 
Wow, you stay up late! For the crossing, do you have a Multi-meter or some type of circuit checker? If you do, check to see that you are getting power to all parts of the crossing. If there are dead sections of the crossing, I would see if I could find out why, or simply return to Bachmann for replacement. As far as the turnouts go, steamers are always a little more fussy when going through the diverging route. Check the locomotive to see if the driving wheels have some side to side play; or, movement. If they don't move from side to side, my guess is that is the problem. When the loco goes through the turnout, slowly, can you see where and when the loco derails? If it is picking the tips of the point rails, you need to file the tips. You discussed that the points do not close up tightly to the stock rails and they certainly should. What types of Bachmann Turnouts did you use? I have never used Bachmann track so am pretty uneducated in it's use. Are these turnouts number #4s, #6s; or, what? It may be that you have bad turnouts, too.

Good Luck!
 
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Does the 0-6-0 have power pick-ups on all wheels. Looking at a picture of that crossing it has quite long insulated pieces in the crossings of the rails, A short wheelbase loco may not bridge them enough to make contact at all times. Does that loco have deeper flanges than your diesels which are contacting the troughs in those plastic pieces and lifting the wheels out of contact with the railhead. If you can take the crossing out of it's place, check that it has electrical connections that power those metal tracks in the middle of the crossing. Make sure your connectors from the other tracks are making good contact with the crossing.

You mention that the points you are using that are giving trouble don't close very well. With a short fixed wheelbase loco as the 0-6-0, it won't swing into a leading point turnout quite as readily as a 4 axle diesel, the leading outer wheel being pushed against the point tip more forcefully. If there's a tendency for that leading point to be prised open more easily, then it's likely.
 
If the belly of the loco is contacting the crossing, I would look to see if the crossing is bowed upward.

Willie
 
I have checked the crossing with a meter and all metal rail pieces have power. The frog is plastic and very large. At one time, as mentioned before, the loco was rubbing its belly on the crossing. I had to file the driven gear hump on the belly pan to prevent that. No rubbing now.

There is plenty of side to side movement in the loco wheels.

The flanges are not bottoming out. The manual switches have a firm snap when moving the points firmly against the rails. The powered switches have a very weak movement with a feather touch on the rails.

I might have to rotate the entire layout 180° and put the manual switches back in. That way, they would be in front of me for easy manual operation.

Is there any other brand of powered switch that has the same footprint as the Bachmann that I could swap out?
 
My guess is the weak pressure of the points against the stock rails are your problem, then.
 
Those Bachmann turnouts have a serious problem at times...not every turnout, but too many of them for me to justify using EZ-Track. Their points rail pivots are weak and allow the point to wobble. Even though you have a turnout motor, it doesn't necessarily follow that the motor is holding the points fully against the stock rail. Also, the Bachmann EZ-Track points need attention right out of the package. They are too often blunt or don't lie flush against their stock rails. You must spend time tuning them, whether bending the points tips every so slightly (and gently), or using a needle file to sharpen them so that they don't get picked, or both. To file them, you place a wooden matchstick between the point and the stock rail, force the point against the matchstick, and begin a series of gently filing strokes in an attempt to make the point almost razor sharp.

Even more, those turnouts have plastic bases which, over time, can curve upward slightly from the middle toward the ends. Every piece of EZ-Track does that in time. Makes for a bumpy ride. As with all turnouts, they must be properly supported below them with flat and firm roadbed. If you permit torsion, flexing, or sagging, your locos will find the fault and derail.

The hanging 'glad hands', the coupler trip pins, sometimes need tweaking if they are too low and not curved enough. Or, the coupler itself needs shimming to bring it up to level if the trip pin curvature is proper. Trip pins can cause stalling and derailments.

AN NMRA gauge should be used to determine flange gauge through the guards. Is the frog too high or misaligned? What is the gauge every cm through the points and on toward the frog? There are often pinches there, or spreads, which will force wheels to pop out of the gauge or to fall onto the ties.
 
I didn't really want to say bad things about Bachmann, fearing the fact Nightwing might get discouraged with the hobby. However, I don't use Bachmann's track, nor do I use any other track that doesn't readily mix with other track Manufacturers products. I only use flex track mounted to cork roadbed. Because I have never used Bachmann's EZ track, I don't really know anything about it. However, I have had a lot of experience with Bachmann's locomotives and can say that I have had problems with some of their products. Not enough that I would say I will never buy from Bachmann again; but, enough that I am leary of their products. The problem nightwing is having with the turnouts, sounds like a typical Bachmann quality issue! I will say that I have found Bachmann's guarantee system is rock solid and have talked many times with their service department and found them to be responsive and care if a customer is happy with a Bachmann Product. Go to their website, click on "Contact Us" and tell them what is going on.

Not having used Bachmann's track, would it be possible that some other manufacturers switch machine would work? Could an under table switch machine like a Circuitron Tortoise; or, Blue Point Turnout controller work?
 
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It's possible of course to use it but there are reasons it has been ditched by so many wanting to "advance" in their MRR adventures to something more complex. I had two Bachman E-Z sets and shunted the track off to someone just getting started so they could see what DCC was about. Got a bunch of flex, sectional and atlas switches and never looked back.
 
I am in the process of changing the finger wire from .018 to .031 music wire to put more pressure on the points. I should know more later today.

I was asked what # turnout these are and I don't know. It is the only one offered in EZ track. Bachmann doesn't say but I believe it is #4.

So, I have ordered a Shinohara 30° crossing. I am going to try removing the Bachmann crossing from its gray roadbed and gluing the Shinohara crossing in its place. If that works, and I can't get the switches to work properly, then I will replace them with Atlas and do the same roadbed procedure. The Shinohara switches look really good but the switch motor needs to be mounted underneath and I would rather have surface mount. Strangely enough, Shinohara doesn't offer a switch motor. You have to use Peco or Tortoise motors from what I have read.
 
EZ-Track comes with a curved diverging route HO snap track #4...I have several that came with a Bradford Exchange gift Christmas On30 train set my wife gave me years ago. They may have discontinued them...? When I wanted better performance from my larger steam locomotives on my first layout years ago, I used EZ-Track's newly introduced, and longer, #5. I'm pretty sure they still make it. It will accommodate all modern HO equipment except some brass where the wheelbase is rigid and long and where the manufacturer says they need 30" radius or more.
 
Well, the change to .031 music wire for the finger proved to be too much for the switch motor. It can't overcome the stiffer wire. I ordered two Atlas Snap Switches in hopes of incorporating them in place of the Bachmanns. However, after I placed the order, I did some research and there were many people who said the Snap Switches also had problems with derailments and stalling. I hate to throw good money after bad. I may just have to redo the layout and eliminate the switches altogether.

Of course, this could be like the old Ford vs Chevy wars that have gone on for decades. Each side says the other is junk. I believe Atlas and Bachmann both sell lots of switches. They can't all be problematic...or can they?
 
I have a couple of Atlas Snap Switches, other than the frogs are plastic and therefore can not be powered, they have served me admirably for almost 28 years!
 
Those Bachmann turnouts have a serious problem at times...not every turnout, but too many of them for me to justify using EZ-Track. Their points rail pivots are weak and allow the point to wobble. Even though you have a turnout motor, it doesn't necessarily follow that the motor is holding the points fully against the stock rail. Also, the Bachmann EZ-Track points need attention right out of the package. They are too often blunt or don't lie flush against their stock rails. You must spend time tuning them, whether bending the points tips every so slightly (and gently), or using a needle file to sharpen them so that they don't get picked, or both. To file them, you place a wooden matchstick between the point and the stock rail, force the point against the matchstick, and begin a series of gently filing strokes in an attempt to make the point almost razor sharp.

Even more, those turnouts have plastic bases which, over time, can curve upward slightly from the middle toward the ends. Every piece of EZ-Track does that in time. Makes for a bumpy ride. As with all turnouts, they must be properly supported below them with flat and firm roadbed. If you permit torsion, flexing, or sagging, your locos will find the fault and derail.

A few years back when I was living in a tiny basement apartment, I wanted to get an HO oval of track to test run trains on so I went on forums to get feedback on the popular brands which have a base - which is pretty much either Bachmann EZ track or KATO Unit track. Many people reported that the Bachmann EZ track was junk, especially citing the poor quality of the turnouts. I found that getting an oval of KATO Unitrack from MBK wasn't terribly expensive so I ordered it and it worked great. I am glad I asked before buying so I could avoid the troubles of poor quality track.
 
I have a couple of Atlas Snap Switches, other than the frogs are plastic and therefore can not be powered, they have served me admirably for almost 28 years!

A lot of things made 28 years ago were made better than they are today. Heck, had the alternator replaced in my Toyota RAV4 1 1/2 years ago and it went bad last month and replaced at the cost of $760 - it should have lasted many years. I bought a Dremel tool and after only a couple months of very light use, a part inside broke and now the shaft will not turn. I have another Demel made in the early 1980's and it's had way more use and still working great.

A lot of things made in recent years are such poor quality, it's not really a fair comparison to talk about stuff made 25-30 years ago - it could be a different ball game for the same/similar products made recently. (btw, no feathers ruffled =P )
 
To the nightwing,

Doesn't Bachmann use their own connector types which would make it difficult to attach track of other brands such as the Atlas snap switch?

If you need track with a base, I would strongly recommend KATO uni track - aside from one bad engine design, Kato has a reputation of high quality products their track has never gotten any bad feedback that I have seen. The switches are pricier than Bachmann but as you have found, you somewhat get what you pay for. If KATO isn't a good option, I would suggest Atlas code 83 sectional track - does not have a base on it however, but it's fairly economical and decent quality. If got quite a few of the #6 code 83 turnouts and they perform pretty well for lower cost track.
 
The Bachmann rail connections are the same as Atlas and probably other brands. The difference is the roadbed the track is mounted on. All the track sections lock together with plastic latches which are part of the roadbed. They can be cut off if desired. I plan on removing the Bachmann turnouts from the plastic roadbed and attaching the Atlas units in their place hoping to maintain the locking feature.
 
To say that things made today are junk, isn't realistic! Most manufacturers want happy customers and try very hard to produce good products. Manufacturing itself has gone through a complete change from what it was 28 years ago. If a manufacturer isn't using CNC equipment, my guess is they no longer exist. CNC equipment is so much more capable and can hold far closer tolerances. In most cases, I believe products are better now than they ever have been! However, since I have no current experience with Atlas Snap Switches, I can't categorically say they are good; or, bad. Looking at Atlas Snap Switches, at Atlas' website I don't see anything different between what I have and what is currently available. Since you feel they are junk, would you mind explaining what problems you have had? I have however, just purchased 5 Custom Line Mark IV turnouts and they have stopped using the rivets as hinges for the points and the new method of pivot for the points looks far better than the old way!

I am not saying the Atlas products are the best. In HO I don't know if any manufacture is the best!

A lot of things made 28 years ago were made better than they are today. Heck, had the alternator replaced in my Toyota RAV4 1 1/2 years ago and it went bad last month and replaced at the cost of $760 - it should have lasted many years. I bought a Dremel tool and after only a couple months of very light use, a part inside broke and now the shaft will not turn. I have another Demel made in the early 1980's and it's had way more use and still working great.

A lot of things made in recent years are such poor quality, it's not really a fair comparison to talk about stuff made 25-30 years ago - it could be a different ball game for the same/similar products made recently. (btw, no feathers ruffled =P )
 
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The Bachmann rail connections are the same as Atlas and probably other brands. The difference is the roadbed the track is mounted on. All the track sections lock together with plastic latches which are part of the roadbed. They can be cut off if desired. I plan on removing the Bachmann turnouts from the plastic roadbed and attaching the Atlas units in their place hoping to maintain the locking feature.

I was thinking of those plastic latches - sounds like you've found a "work-around" to mixing other track with the Bachmann EZ track.
 
To say that things made today are junk, isn't realistic!

But I didn't say what you attributed to me (above). It's easy to make a straw man and knock him down. What I actually said is: "A lot of things made 28 years ago were made better than today, and I gave a few examples. I'm sure many can think of quite a few more examples. Obviously not everything made to today is junk. Nuff said about that...

since I have no current experience with Atlas Snap Switches, I can't categorically say they are good; or, bad. Looking at Atlas Snap Switches, at Atlas' website I don't see anything different between what I have and what is currently available. Since you feel they are junk, would you mind explaining what problems you have had? I have however, just purchased 5 Custom Line Mark IV turnouts and they have stopped using the rivets as hinges for the points and the new method of pivot for the points looks far better than the old way!

I am not saying the Atlas products are the best. In HO I don't know if any manufacture is the best!

I don't have any experience either with the snap switches but my guess is that the closer you get to train set type equipment, which the snap switches are aimed at that market, maybe the quality may be less reliable - unfortunately.

As far as "any manufacturer being best", in general (yes, it's dangerous to generalize but ...) you get what you pay for - so if you go cheap, expect products to not work as well, if you spend more, products are generally better. (e.g. by consensus, most experienced model railroaders would rate Atlas HO diesels to be among the best in appearance and running quality). I've used the Atlas #6 code 83 turnouts and find that for a discount price of $14, they operate and look quite decently. Even Rob Spangler, a pretty discriminating model railroader uses them on his wp8thsub layout which is by all accounts a very well running layout.

Since you feel they are junk, would you mind explaining what problems you have had?

You quoted me, but I think it was the OP who commented on the Atlas snap switches not working well for him. As for the Bachmann EZ track switches, it was the feedback from others who had tried them and were unsatisfied and felt they were poor quality - some may have used more pejorative terms - I don't recall as it was several years ago.

I have however, just purchased 5 Custom Line Mark IV turnouts and they have stopped using the rivets as hinges for the points and the new method of pivot for the points looks far better than the old way!

I have some of the old Atlas code 100 turnouts and they have the rivets for hinges and the points seemed to be a bit sloppy due to them. I use the code 100 in staging where appearance is unimportant but it's good news they have upgraded them to look better for those who use them in visible areas.

I am not saying the Atlas products are the best. In HO I don't know if any manufacture is the best!

I think there is definitely an argument that some brands of track are best or at least on the much better side of the spectrum. For example, Peco turnouts always seemed very well engineered and operate very well - and by consensus - very well regarded over the years. The code 100 Peco are "relatively economical" although they do follow UK style detailing if that matters. The Peco code 83, tooled only about 12 years ago, follows north American track type and looks and operates very well by all accounts, and the turnouts are a good deal more expensive. MBK discount prices on the Peco code 83 #6 is $26 each, vs. $14 for the Atlas code 83, for a comparison. Again, it's a "you get what you pay for" type of thing that is often true.
 
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