ATSF LA Division, 2nd District. The Cucamonga, Pasadena and East LA RR (HO scale)

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#1
Good morning everyone!

Following good advice from fellow modelers, reading and research, i have settled on track-plans for two layouts. One for a future space/home, and one for my current home. Key point here is that the current one is derived from the future one. I started off with what i really liked/wanted in order to produce the track plan for the future one, and then using modules (inspired by modules and the TOMA approach from MRH) i ended up with the much smaller version for the current space.

Using this method, i will be able to start working on the future layout from now instead of waiting for the future home to materialize. The layout for the current space is seen on the lower left corner of the image i attach. The red rectangles (numbered 1 to 7) on the layouts represent the modules i am talking about. The rest of the track/bench on the current-space plan, is not going to be transfered to the new space and i am only going to salvage track and possibly some scenic material.

For the layout concept:

ATSF LA Division, covering part of the 2nd district. 1964 to 1968. Upper main level height at 50"-54", lower level 30" (yards and staging). 40" Minimum radius for curves viewed from the outside, 36" elsewhere (got to run 85' cars mainly and they should look as good as possible).

Starting from 8th/1st street yards (compressed to being side by side), off to the west helix and up to the main level where a wye leads to either LAUPT or the mainline to the east.This west helix is connected to lower level staging as well, offering continuous run option.

Following the mainline eastwards, the scenes are:
1. LA river crossing (Truss bridge scene)
2. Arroyo Seco Bridge (Trestle bridge scene)
3. South Pasadena (possibly industrial action inside the dogbone loop).
4. Pasadena Depot
5. Colorado Boulevard / Route 66. Here the train hides behind buildings and becomes the "background" seen between buildings and the main focus is the boulevard itself with the buildings.
6. North Pasadena Industrial area
7. San Dimas (might scrap this and have a plain rural area here instead, with a couple of industries)
8. Cucamonga (Art Deco depot, Winery and Packing house planned along with representing Route 66)

and off to east-helix down to east staging which is below the North Pasadena Industrial area on the right side of the layout.

The smaller layout, for the current space will include a few parts of this bigger plan. These include the Pasadena depot, part of Colorado Blvd and part of Cucamonga.

The larger layout is designed with the principle to keep things simple but less compressed. In other words, having the larger size as a result of more expansive and less compressed (few) scenes instead of many scenes and complex trackwork. Hopefully this idea / principle will keep things manageable despite the larger size. I have read that the complexity makes things difficult to handle/build/maintain and not the length of the track/scene.

Trains operating:
East/West bound local freights. The main freight players here, originating at 1st street yard in LA, going to San Bernardino and back.
Eastbound Pickup Extra. Dealing with reefers from LA to SB. (optional train for variety)
Steel Extra. SB to LA, hauling product from Kaiser steel to LA (optional train for variety)
Super Chief, El-Cap and Chief as well as the 2nd district local LA-SB train (discontinued by then...fictionally re-activated in my layout).

Many thanks for your previous advices in track planning that helped me getting here.

Yannis

2ndDistrictLayouts1.jpg
 

wombat457

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#2
Yannis,

This looks like a huge endeavor and one that I am sure will produce great results in both its construction and running. Looking forward to watching this project come together.
 

cajon

Active Member
#4
Yannis
Get on the ATSF, Santa Fe & Cajon Yahoo groups for info on your operating trains. They are discussed there all the time & they are good for asking specific questions. The Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society has a lot of Santa Fe info including track charts for the 2nd District. Pretty sure most of the traffic out of The Kaiser steel mill was mostly to all points east on on the Santa Fe. All their iron ore & coal came from the east. Some of there products may have gone WB for export out of the LA/LB harbors & consumption around LA. 1964-1968 there was no turntable or roundhouse in Hobart Yard. UP San Pedro Sub crossed the Santa Fe at west end of the yard. UP's East Yard is just north of Hobart Yard. That could replace the turntable. There was also a connection to the Los Angeles Junction Ry (LAJ) off that UP track. ATSF, SP & UP interchanged w/ LAJ there. The UP San Pedro Sub parallels So. Downey Rd on attached aerial. If you have some SP & UP diesels thay could be run on that track doing interchange w/ ATSF, LAJ, SP &/or UP.
UP ATSF & LAJ Yards.bmp.jpg
Yannis Hobart Yard-Revised.bmp.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cajon

Active Member
#5
Yannis
Get on the ATSF, Santa Fe & Cajon Yahoo groups for info on your operating trains. They are discussed there all the time & they are good for asking specific questions. Pretty sure most of the traffic out of The Kaiser steel mill was mostly to all points east on on the Santa Fe. All their iron ore & coal came from the east. Some of there products may have gone WB for export out of the LA/LB harbors & consumption around LA. 1964-1968 there was no turntable or roundhouse in Hobart Yard. UP San Pedro Sub crossed the Santa Fe at west end of the yard. UP's East Yard is just north of Hobart Yard. That could replace the turntable. There was also a connection to the Los Angeles Junction Ry (LAJ) off that UP track. ATSF, SP & UP interchanged w/ LAJ there. The UP San Pedro Sub parallels So. Downey Rd on attached aerial. If you have some SP & UP diesels thay could be run on that track doing interchange w/ ATSF, LAJ, SP &/or UP.
View attachment 63143
View attachment 63144
 
#6
Hi Andy,

Thank you for the info, I will look into these groups at some point.

You are right that most of the traffic was eastbound from Kaiser (with respect to finished products). The specific Steel-extra ATSF train i am considering, came westbound from SB, picked up finished steel at Kaiser and off to LA.

Many thanks for the suggestions and the very interesting info with respect to Hobart and the UP connection as well as LAJ and SP. Having said that, the yard(s) depicted on the track-plan are the 1st street yard and the 8th street coach yard, since all the eastbound trains (freight/passenger) i plan to operate, did originate at these two yards. The turntable you see in the track-plan is the (adjacent to the 8th street coach yard) Redondo junction engine facility.

Much appreciated input!

Yannis
 

cajon

Active Member
#7
Was a BNSF conductor them Amtrak. Forgot about the other yards as they were gone during my days there. Did work 8th St. Check it in Google aerials as turntable sans roundhouse is still there. They were both inline w/ 8th St yard & not off on it's own spur like on your plan. Also check it out on historicaerials.com. You're right the big name passenger trains went EB/WB on 2nd District. Think only one passenger train went EB/WB on 3rd District. Back in your era there were many switch jobs working the yards around 8th St. Don't know about your era but in later times, most freights came WB on 2nd District & went EB on 3rd District. Those are questions to ask on the Yahoo Group sites. Also get a copy of John Signor's Los Angeles Division as it has a ton of info & pix on the division. It can be purchased thru the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society.
 
#8
Hi Andy!

Glad to speak with a conductor!

I have Signor's book, it is probably one of the most well written historical/reference books i have ever come across, and the best reference (imho) for the LA division. Signor's book, membership to the SFRHMS, historicaerials.com, and friendly advice/help from forums' and society members were indispensable / invaluable in creating these track plans.

You are right, in the 70s, they started the 2nd/3rd district freights. In the 60s that i model, the usual freights were the two 2nd district locals, the Steel-extra and the (in-season) Pickup-Extra reefer train on the district. The two locals were the ones that proved to be ideal for my purposes and will be the main freight players in my layout. This is due to the fact that they were:

1. Reasonable in length for a freight train (home layout) with interesting (for me) motive power (RSD4/5 - RSD7, or GP35's)
2. Running the entire line (LA to SB and back, or staging to staging in layout terms)
3. Doing all the switching en-route.

Charles Smiley's "Diesel Power on the Santa Fe" DVD has some freight action on the 2nd district with this local freight! Check it out if interested.
 

cajon

Active Member
#9
CA is known as the breadbasket of USA as produce can be grown in all 4 seasons. For example, citrus was shipped in winter as well as summer. There was a lot of other produce shipped out of SoCal all year long.
GP30s were used w/ GP35s also. GP20s tended to stay back east in your era because of their cab signals. Don't forget GP7/GP9s. And Santa Fe was still using their F units for long distance freight trains in your era.
 
#10
Yep, CA's climate was golden!

I plan to add some GP30's in the mix although my priority for the next freight locomotives is to get a few RSD4/5 ones. A GP9 is already in my roster :). Will keep you posted when the work on the first module begins!

Thanks again.
Yannis
 
#11
Following the mainline eastwards, the scenes are:
1. LA river crossing (Truss bridge scene)
2. Arroyo Seco Bridge (Trestle bridge scene)
3. South Pasadena (possibly industrial action inside the dogbone loop).
4. Pasadena Depot
5. Colorado Boulevard / Route 66. Here the train hides behind buildings and becomes the "background" seen between buildings and the main focus is the boulevard itself with the buildings.
6. North Pasadena Industrial area
7. San Dimas (might scrap this and have a plain rural area here instead, with a couple of industries)
8. Cucamonga (Art Deco depot, Winery and Packing house planned along with representing Route 66)
Reading this all I can think of are the Jack Benny routines where they were in a train station and the announcer was reading off the destinations down the line. They always ended with some funny lengthening of Cucamonga. Cu...Ca...Moaaaaaaan....Ga.
 
#12
Reading this all I can think of are the Jack Benny routines where they were in a train station and the announcer was reading off the destinations down the line. They always ended with some funny lengthening of Cucamonga. Cu...Ca...Moaaaaaaan....Ga.
True. Although i am unfamiliar with Jack Benny (have heard about the show though), i do know/remember the name from Bugs Bunny in a couple of cartoons.

On top of the Cucamonga name, i really like the art-deco / streamline moderne depot that i ll start building soon.
 
#13
True. Although i am unfamiliar with Jack Benny (have heard about the show though), i do know/remember the name from Bugs Bunny in a couple of cartoons.

On top of the Cucamonga name, i really like the art-deco / streamline moderne depot that i ll start building soon.
That will be an interesting build. I believe the Bugs Bunny bit is a parody of the Jack Benny routine.
 
#14
That will be an interesting build. I believe the Bugs Bunny bit is a parody of the Jack Benny routine.
Yep, in one Cartoon they do exactly that. In another one, Bugs reads a map where he had taken a wrong turn and if i am not mistaken one of the locations on the map he was reading is Cucamonga.

Thanks, i hope to make it interesting, given that the prototype was interesting! I have started gathering cars for the passenger consists and am currently working on some prototype buildings. Benchwork during Xmas i hope.
 
#15
Hi all and happy holidays!

In the last few weeks i dismantled my previous layout and just recently started building the benchwork for the new one. I shifted the time-frame a bit to 1968-1970. The final trackplan / design for my current space is the following:

PasadenaRRtrackplan.jpg

New plywood ready for the pocket hole drilling
Plywood.jpg

Pocket holes made... battery intensive process!
Pocketholes.jpg

Assembly of the tables (open grid box-frames)
Assembly.jpg

Thanks in advance for your time/replies,
Yannis
 

cajon

Active Member
#16
Hi all and happy holidays!

In the last few weeks i dismantled my previous layout and just recently started building the benchwork for the new one. I shifted the time-frame a bit to 1968-1970. The final trackplan / design for my current space is the following:

View attachment 64644

New plywood ready for the pocket hole drilling
View attachment 64645

Pocket holes made... battery intensive process!
View attachment 64646

Assembly of the tables (open grid box-frames)
View attachment 64647

Thanks in advance for your time/replies,
Yannis
Looks good Yannis! Do a internet search for Jeff Smith's LA Div. 2nd District layout. He had the depot & freight house built for his layout. Looks like you found the track charts & CLIC book for Pasadena.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
 
#17
Many thanks Andy, i am glad you like it! I will look it up (the layout you mention).

Yep i did get the track charts from the AT&SF society, but i haven't found CLIC books for Pasadena. The AT&SF historical and modeling society was essential and invaluable for my research.
 

cajon

Active Member
#18
Many thanks Andy, i am glad you like it! I will look it up (the layout you mention).

Yep i did get the track charts from the AT&SF society, but i haven't found CLIC books for Pasadena. The AT&SF historical and modeling society was essential and invaluable for my research.
The CLIC books do show up on eBay. Do a search for them there.


Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
 
#20
Update time!

Happy new year to everyone. Benchwork is finished and i am almost done with the subroadbed-risers-inclines.

Here is the roll-out urban area benchwork
BenchworkUrban.jpg

The main depot area with subroadbed plywood installed (not fastened yet)
BenchworkDepotArea.jpg

And the industrial area south of Pasadena's depot
BenchworkIndustrial.jpg

Thanks for stopping by! Next stop "transferring" the track plan onto the benchtop.
 



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