Anyone tried Rail Pro?


josephbw

josephbw

Active Member
I haven't bought any control equipment yet, and have been looking at Digitrax. Today I took a serious look at Rail Pro by Ring Engineering. It looks like a unique, easy system, but I'm always skeptical of "New & Improved" claims. Have any of you installed or used this system? I would appreciate any feedback you could provide.

Thanks, Joe
 
Well do you want to go with a system that appears to be available from one source or a system that is available from many sources?
 
At this point I am more interested in function rather than availability. If the product does that they say it will, I can live with the proprietary nature of the beast. If not, I will go with my original plan.

Thank You,
Joe
 
I would say this, since you have to use a RailPro module in your loco, this tells me they are doing something proprietary. See this page for details. I think that in that light, even if it did "more" than DCC, I would have a tendency to shy away from it.

Who can you call when you need help? Is there a huge pool of information about it to draw from? Is there a large user base that you can ask for help in after hours or to get different advice? If RailPro goes under, and you want to purchase new engines, you are in a jam since their protocols are not open and known. Personally, I would stick with DCC. If you have problems there is a mountain of help available. If a vendor goes under, they are all interoperable. There is a wealth of information to draw from. I would look for an interface you like from a DCC vendor if that is the draw to RailPro.

Just my $0.02, I have been stuck with proprietary tech before, and it hurts.
 
I have Railpro and really like it. I have it installed in 3 locos currently and 1 module on the way. Super simple to use so far. Consisting is as easy as they say. However I don't use it as a single system. What I really like about it is; while you can't consist a Railpro equppied loco with a DCC locomotive, I can run a DCC train and a Railpro train simultaneously. Sorta like having a second throttle. I wouldn't give up my DCC but its a nice addition to it. If you haven't watched it already this is a good video on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGx7lQC2-0Y Its an older video, so some of the screenshots are different from the updated software, but the controls are the same. Customer support from Ring Engineering is great. Tim responds to emails promptly, sometimes even on the weekend. I already had a DCC system, so I didn't have to choose between the two. If you have any specific questions I'll be glad to answer them to the best of my ability.

-Laurence
 
There are DCC systems from Europe which tend to have more user friendly interfaces to the system then, say, a Digitrax DT402.

If you are looking for a touch screen type of interface you might check this out:

http://www.z21.eu/en

Top notch electronics with multiple control buses including LocoNet. You use a phone or tablet as the controller.

There are a few locos available for the system with a built-in video camera. With these you see the view from the camera on the phone/tablet.

You get a interface somewhat like RailPro but in a system that uses standard DCC.
 
I have been using RailPro for the the past year and a half and I am very happy with it. After building several large DC layouts in the last 30 years, I finally took the plunge and went RailPro after much research into DCC. DCC seamed like a whole hobby within a hobby, all I want to do is run trains and have fun without having all the fiddling with settings, test tracks etc.. RailPro does exactly what the manufacturer claims and then some, Ring Engineering's customer service is excellent. I don't really care if the system is proprietary, they have been in business for more than ten years now and I'm not too worried about them going out of business.

Mel
 
Thank you very much hirailer & LW93Rcode That's exactly what I was looking for, actual experience. I have a lot of experience with Digitrax at our club layout, but it can be a hassle to do programming. For example just changing engines on your throttle or speed matching engines. With RailPro you just make a few taps on the screen and you're done.

I have a few questions for either of you. I have several new engines, some older DCC ready engines, and some BB Athearns that I had 30 years ago. Is there anywhere I can find the amp rating for the RailPro sound decoder? I can remotor the old Athearns if I have to but would rather not. Will this system be compatible with JMRI? I'm going to have at least 15 engines on my layout when I get done, will I be able to program all of them into the throttle so they will all show up on the screen?

Thank you very much for you help,
Joe
 
Digitrax is very user unfriendly system and should not be used as a basis for deciding DCC is to be avoided.
 
Joe
I have two old Atlas/Roco GP38 and GP40 plus one Athearn blue box SD40-2 all hard wired with Digitrax nine pin harnesses and RailPro LM2S sound modules installed. The Athearn blue box SD40-2 runs like charm, better than on DC. Railpro features a real time current analysis on the controller. You can watch as the locomotive is in action plus this feature will pick up engine overheating which will automatically shut the locomotive if it gets too hot. I've never had this happen. Hope this info helps.

Mel
 
I have one blue box SD40-2 that was drawing too much for it but was running fine with a Digitrax DH166 decoder. I did successfully install it into a newer blue box SD40-2 with the only change being swapping to nickel silver wheels. Like Mel said of his, it runs great! The other two I have are in an Athearn RTR SD40-2 and an Atlas ( I believe Classic) GP40. The one in waiting is a BB GP60. I do suggest swapping the wheels and tuning up the motors in any blue box before installing any modules, which you would probably want to do in either case, DCC or Railpro. I will check the manual to see if there is a amp rating specification. I don't believe there is limit on the number of locos you can have, at least nothing to worry about with 15.

-Laurence
 
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Joe,

I've been using Railpro for about 3 years now and love it. Like you, my local club had Digitrax and it was rather cumbersome and a bit of a pain sometimes. I went looking around for other options and came across Railpro. The thing that drew me to it most was not having to speed match....that drove me nuts with DCC. I started off switching over a locomotive here and there, and now have 13 locos with it installed. I got into Railpro during the first generation of hardware (LM-1, HC-1 etc) and have a mix of the older and newer model equipment.

Railpro is not DCC and will not interact with it. However, like has been stated, Railpro locos can be used on a DCC powered layout without a problem. It is only drawing the track power not the DCC signal. Railpro signals are transmitted by radio to each individual locomotive/Railpro accessory. The transmission is instantaneous and reliable. Max range is about 100 ft and that will depend on interference factors such as walls, other freqency interference, etc. I have never had a problem at home or on a club layout.

Railpro is duplex communication, meaning that each Railpro module communicates back to the controller in real time. Real-time status can be seen for each locomotive module and for the Railpro power supplies, should you choose to use them. Info includes such things as current draw, module temperature, and track voltage. The real-time two-way communication is what makes MU'ing so successful with Railpro. Each locomotive in the consist sends continuous feedback to the controller which then adjusts the other locomotives accordingly....each locomotive is adjusted in real time to share an equal part of the load, all without any user input. It makes running trains so much nicer for me.

Ring Engineering's customer service is by far the best I have ever dealth with. Tim is definitely a man who stands by his products and cares for the customer.

Here's a video I made a few years back showing the basics of Railpro. Keep in mind that this is a few years old so things have changed.
[video=youtube;RGx7lQC2-0Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGx7lQC2-0Y[/video]

Joe to answer your questions, I don't know the max amp rating for Railpro off the top of my head but it is sufficient to run older BB equipment. Keep in mind though that to use older BB locos on DCC or Railpro ad have them run reliably and smoothly, you will need to do some work to the locomotive to improve it's running characteristics. There are multiple guides out there to show you how to do it. Basically tuning the gears and motor. You'll get a much quieter locomotive with smoother running characteristics, as well as a lower amperage draw. I have a 30+ yr old BB loco with the original motor still in it, running just fine on Railpro. The amperage draw is much higher than my other locomotives but it still works with them just fine. I personally prefer to swap out old Athearn motors for Kato's or similar for a number of reasons. Lower current draw, quieter running, and more space inside the shell are all reasons.

The system is not compatible with JMRI, and I'm not sure if it will be in the future or not. I'm not extremely well-versed in JMRI, but being that it is for DCC-based systems I think it relies on signals going through the track to do what it does. Since Railpro is all through the air I don't see how it could become compatible. Regardless, it's not compatible with it but I haven't ever felt the need for it to be.

Hopefully this answers your questions! Any others you have, just ask and I'll see what I can do to answer them.

-Kevin
 
Since I can only put one video in a post, here's a more recent one showing a Railpro install and how to set up the locomotive for the first time.
[video=youtube;6uL69dp0qmA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uL69dp0qmA[/video]

-Kevin
 
And another thing. Railpro is constantly being updated with new software and sounds. See the update page here: http://ringengineering.com/WhatsNew.htm.

They just released a new desktop software program that opens up a whole new side for Railpro. All downloads from Ring Engineering (sounds, lighting effects, pictures, projects, etc) are now stored locally on your computer through this program. It also opens up the ability to create your own pictures, sounds, and programs and then load them onto your Railpro products. I've been beta-testing it for a while and am excited to be able to record my own sounds in the field, process them and then upload them to my locomotives. Link to the program webpage and the instruction booklet: http://ringengineering.com/RailProSoftware.htm.

Here's an example of what the user-loadble sounds can do. This locomotive has the Ring Engineering 7FDL-16 prime mover with associated air compressor and air let-offs. Custom sounds include the dynamic brake, GE Bell, K3LA, brake release, and GE traction motors....all courtesy of Midwest Locomotive Works, used and shared with permission.
[video=youtube;VJJBOihV0vw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJJBOihV0vw[/video]

-Kevin
 
Kevin, I really appreciate the time you took to tell me about Rail Pro. I had seen the first video the other day, and the other two are equally as awesome. Very well done, concise, and informative. I wasn't aware of the changes in software to allow you to upload your pics and sound to the loco without sending the files to Rail Pro. That's a nice improvement. The more I hear about this system, the more I am inclined to buy it.

Thanks again,
Joe
 
That last video is impressive Kevin! Not to steal the OPs thread, but how and where can I get permission to use that K3LA horn?


-Laurence
 
Joe - you're welcome. And like I said, if there are other questions you have I will try to answer them. I've been around the system for a while and am pretty familiar with it.

Laurence - Thanks! Unfortunately I can't share the file. The guy that originally recorded it has allowed me to use his files on my own equipment and in Youtube videos as above, but has not given me permission to share or distribute. My hope is that he will at some point allow others to use his files, but that will have to wait until if and when he is ready.

With the new Railpro Assistant software release it should open the door to more recordings from other users. If you have the right recording equipment and access to railroads to record, it really isn't difficult to get good sounds. I have recording equipment, but my issue I have no good opportunities to record around my area. I'm still working on that. But there are others who have access to railroads and have already started submitting recordings. With time there should be a rather large library of both Ring Engineering and user-recorded sounds.

-Kevin
 
Hi Guys,

I posed a few questions to Ring Engineering, and got a response today. I'll post it here in case there is some info that may help someone else.

Hi Joe,

"What is the amperage rating of your sound decoders?"
Our modules are not rated like DCC decoders because our modules are more advanced and have features like short circuit and overload protection. Our module could probably be used where a typical 1.5 Amp DCC module could be used. We are not aware of any loco built in the last 30 years or so that it does not handle. However, we do know that our LM-1 would turn off on an over heat with the blue box locos that had metal side frames. Our LM-2 is more powerful but we have not heard of anyone trying it on one of the blue box locos that had metal side frames. We think the blue box locos that had metal side frames were built over 30 years ago. Our LM-2S does run the later generation blue box (ones with plastic side frames) just fine.

"And are you working on a decoder for smaller engines?"
Our LM-2 module is very small. Below you can see its size compared to a dime. It size is 1.50 x 0.68 x 0.25 Inches.
http://www.ringengineering.com/LM-2S.htm
We believe it can be installed in most all HO scale locos. We have many customers that installed them in small switch engines. In some cases of very small locos a factory board may need to be removed or a part of a weight may need to be cut to provide clearance.
We plan to work on a N scale module in the future. Our N scale module could likely be used on newer locos.

"How many engines can you load into the controller?"
You can load over 100 locos into the controller. We are very confiden that no one will have any needs that exceed what RailPro can do and are confident that the ability to operate large layouts is far superior to any typical DCC system.

"Is this system compatible with the older Blue Box Athearns, or will I need to re-motor and change wheels?"
Yes. Please see below for more blue information.

"Does your decoder come with various instructions for different engines or just one generic description?"
There is one instruction sheet. The installation in most locos is the same. You are welcome to ask us about different locos and we can recommend hobby shops that can install RailPro for you.
http://www.ringengineering.com/RailPro/Documents/LM-2Instructions.pdf

Converting non-DCC Ready Locomotives to RailPro
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Almost any locomotive can be converted to RailPro. Older DC only locomotives (ones that have no DCC plug) can be converted to RailPro by using the RailPro locomotive wiring diagram and wiring in a 9 pin DCC wiring harness to plug the RailPro module into. When converting DC locomotives to RailPro you need to look out for motors or lights that are connected to the frame. The motor and lights will need to isolated from the frame because often the frame is connected to the track electrical pickup (thought the wheels on one side) and if these connections are not disconnected, the RailPro locomotive module could be damaged.
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Beside that you should consider that running a locomotive with a module (microcontroller inside - like RailPro or a DCC module) the electrical connection to the track needs to be good. If the power is interrupted for even a short time the microcontrollers stop to function and need a 1/2 second or so to restart. This is not really the case with a DC loco that only has a motor. If the power is interrupted briefly, the motor slows down but may continue to spin. For example if the wheels and track are dirty, then you get interruptions in power which a DC locomotive may coast through but a locomotive with microcontroller inside may stop and restart. So to get good operation from an older locomotive you may need to make some improvements to the electrical pickup. This need for better connection is basically the same for the typical DCC module or a RailPro module. In fact, most of our customers tell us that when they run their RailPro locomotives on DCC layouts, that the RailPro modules go over dirty track better than their DCC equipped locomotives. Because good electrical connection is needed for locomotives with microcontrollers inside, we only recommend using locomotives with at least 8 electrical pickup wheels. Some older, lower cost locomotives only have 4 wheel electrical pick up (two wheels per side) and they are less likely to run well. Further, it is important to be sure the wheels and track are clean. Also, you will want to remove any debris (such as cloth fibers) from the wheel axles if you see any.
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For example one popular locomotive commonly converted to run RailPro is the Athearn blue box locomotives. These need the motor and lights isolated. But also we recommend the following modification to improve the connection form the track to the locomotive module. Removing the strap across the top of the motor and soldering wire to each side of the truck frames and connecting them to the red and black wires as shown in the RailPro module wiring diagram. Therefore the truck side frames will be directly wired to the 9 pin harness so the module is not depending on the sliding contact points which make poor connection for module electronics. The wire used should be flexible stranded wire so the trucks can turn with little resistance from the added wire. You will need to be sure the wire coming up through the frame from the trucks will allow the trucks to turn freely.
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Most information out there for converting a locomotive to plug in a 9 pin DCC module can be used to install a RailPro module because RailPro follows the same wiring as the DCC standard. Whatever information you use, just be sure to check the final installation with the instructions provided with the RailPro locomotive module.
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If you do the few tips we provided you can get older DC locomotives to nearly run as well as the modern DCC ready locomotives. Almost all newer DCC ready locomotives have all wheel electrical pickup and hardwired connections from the truck frames to the DCC plug.


Please let us know if you have any more questions.

Thank you for contacting Ring Engineering!


Thanks again for the help guys,
Joe
 
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