Any idea what this is?

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Rabman

Active Member
#1
So when I was about 10, Santa brought me a bunch of used train stuff for Christmas.

This is one of the locomotives he brought. Its been sitting in a box for over 30 years. Any idea what it is?

It is missing the cow catcher at the front and definitely needs some clean up. It has sentimental value, not sure if it has any monetary value. Might need to 3D print a cow catcher if I cannot determine what it is or get parts for it.

It has some oxidation on some of the undercarriage. I think they call that weathering ;)

I didn't notice any markings or stampings on it.

Any idea if it would be easy to convert to DCC?
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bnsf971

AKA Gomez Addams
Staff member
#2
Looks like an old Mantua pacific. You should be able to find another one as a parts source pretty easily. I don't think I'd expend the effort of installing a decoder.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#3
So when I was about 10, Santa brought me a bunch of used train stuff for Christmas.
This is one of the locomotives he brought. Its been sitting in a box for over 30 years. Any idea what it is?
Any idea if it would be easy to convert to DCC?
I agree with the prior poster. Looks like a Mantua / Tyco Pacific. There are many of them out there in ebay land that can be used for parts. In addition to the pilot I see two things. First is that the rear truck is on upside down. Second the rear cab overhang is broken off. I believe the cab is a separate piece of plastic that is easily replaced.

As for DCC there are two major obstacles. When the unit is opened up, I believe you will find the brush on one side is grounded to the frame of the motor and hence to the frame of the locomotive. That means to use the factory motor, one would have to find plastic mounting screws, plus an insulating gasket to place the motor on. This motor would also have a high current draw which would be detrimental to DCC decoders. To remotor one would have to rebuild the mount, or as NWSL suggests just glue it in place with automotive liquid gasket goop. https://shop.osorail.com/product.sc....p3plqscsfapp002?productId=2988&categoryId=60

The other issue with DCC is that the power from one rail is picked up from the tender and the power from the other rail from the locomotive. This can cause issues with auto-reversers and also cause it to stall when passing from one DCC booster district to another. The solution would be to rework the wheels on the tender so it picks up from both rails, and run two wires from tender to loco instead of just one.

I thought Bowser used to make a repower kit for this locomotive, but I am unable to prove that looking on-line.
 
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Rabman

Active Member
#4
Wow, that sounds like a lot of work. If it was a pricey loco, it may have been worth it, but from a quick scan, it looks like one in better shape would be worth $60.

It does have some sentimental value, maybe a project for sometime in the future.

It is a Mantua based on some photos I’ve seen after knowing the name to google. Good to know what it is.

Thanks all!

I was hoping for some better news. Expensive loco, hard to find, easy to convert. Oh well! Lol
 

KB02

Well-Known Member
#5
My very first loco sits proudly on my layout as a display piece. The back story of my layout is that it is based on an old mining town. The old Bachmann 0-6-0 was one of the locos that used to be used there. Now it sits on an old abandoned siding near the entrance to (what will one day be) a museum. Great for kids to play on, etc.

It will still run on DC if it had to, though the traction tires have long since rotted away and many of the parts and pieces have long since broken off. DCC conversion is possible, but would be a wicked pain in the butt.

Basically, I know exactly how you feel. ;)
 

Rabman

Active Member
#7
I thinking will follow this action plan sometime in the future:

- set up a small piece of dc test track
- see how well it runs if it does
- clean it up
- buy a pilot and cab if I can. STOP and DECIDE HERE.
- decide on dcc, if so replace the motor with a can motor, isolate it and do some additional wheel power pickups in the tender.

Question is if I throw a double pole, double throw switch on my bus power feed, and put dc power to my layout on one of the poles - would it damage my digitrax AR1 auto reversing switch or would I need to isolate it as well? I.e. is the AR1 compatible with DC?
 

bnsf971

AKA Gomez Addams
Staff member
#8
Question is if I throw a double pole, double throw switch on my bus power feed, and put dc power to my layout on one of the poles - would it damage my digitrax AR1 auto reversing switch or would I need to isolate it as well? I.e. is the AR1 compatible with DC?
If you go that route, I would recommend a double-pole, double-throw, CENTER-OFF switch. I would also figure out a way to disable the AR-1 when in DC mode.
I think that's a lot of work for a single engine.
You could do what many railroads and museums have done with historical equipment that is not economical to repair or place back in limited service: Perform a cosmetic restoration of it, and place it as a static display. That is, replace the pilot, flip the trailing truck, replace the cab, maybe put a knuckle coupler on it, and use it as a display piece. If you want to get really elaborate, you can build a shed in a park on your layout, and place it under the shed. The amount of work needed would probably be about the same, skill and stress-wise, and would be less frustrating than actually figuring out how to make everything work without frying anything.
 

KB02

Well-Known Member
#9
I think that's a lot of work for a single engine.
Yes, but then there are people like me that just like the challenge... and the project.

If you want to get really elaborate, you can build a shed in a park on your layout, and place it under the shed.
That's actually a really great idea that I'm going to steal for my poor little 0-6-0!

Okay... sorry... I'l stop hijacking the thread now... ;)
 

Rabman

Active Member
#10
Well I think I am done.

I lubed up the locomotive and it ran on a 3 foot piece of flex track back and forth.

I couldn’t resist, I disconnected the AR1, pulled all of the dcc locomotives off the layout, connected up a dc controller. The green monster was running fast around the loop a couple times and then came to a complete stop.

It dropped a linkage off the one side. It was in its glory running for the first time in 40 years, then it said it was enough.

I am glad I got it running for a brief time, but I don’t think I will doing anything with it. Makes me sad but I think it needs too much.

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Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#11
It dropped a linkage off the one side. It was in its glory running for the first time in 40 years, then it said it was enough.
I am glad I got it running for a brief time, but I don’t think I will doing anything with it. Makes me sad but I think it needs too much.
Actually I think a company called "English" used to make a valve gear replacement for the unit. I do not remember what happened to English. Perhaps Bowser bought them?

or https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mantua-HO-Parts-4-6-2-Pacific-Steam-Locomotive-Side-Rod-Set/132848067960
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#12
Here is one of mine that I reworked for my Father back in the 1990s sometime. It came back to me in his estate.

The Walschaerts valve gear is always a problem for modelers with so many joints.

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Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
#16
I like the all black.
Funny thing there. When I did this, the initial flat black paint came out soooo nice. It was possibly the best paint job I had done up to that time. But then the decals wouldn't stick so I had to go back over with gloss black. Dina go nearly as well. Then after the decals a dull coat which also didn't go as well. sigh.

I did look at the tender trucks. What I did on this one was replace the wheel sets with metal wheels. For the side that was not grounded I put in a real fine brass spring wire that rubs the back of the opposite side. Those are connected to another wire that goes to electronics. Then I added another that goes to the locomotive. In the photo it shows a tiny bit. Red wire just behind the cab - For DCC technically it should have been an orange or grey wire. The black wire under the cab was the original grounded to the frame, which was re-routed to the decoder.
 
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#17
I really do not remember. It has been so long. I know the English kit I was referring to has actual rivets the modeler has to hammer down. That stymied me for a while. The one on E-bay looks like all the rivets are already in there.
The Mikado I began back in 1978 had rivets for the steam linkage..... lost track of it before I finished it. Was an american kit, bu this was back in 'the day'.
 



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